McDonald's helps you make a budget for your mimimum wage job(s)!

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**d-usa**

Via Death and Taxes:

McDonald’s has partnered with Visa to make a website dedicated to showing its employees how to properly budget their meager peasant salaries. However, what it actually does is illustrate the fact that it is nearly impossible to get by on minimum wage, as shown in this “example” budget chart:

Yeah– now, when I first saw that, I assumed that the top line was for a part-time McDonald’s employee. Then I got out my calculator– that is actually what you would make if you were working full-time at McDonald’s. 1,105 dollars a month.

Now let’s say that the “second” job that they budget in here (feels like cheating, but OK) is also minimum wage. That would mean you were working about 62 hours a week, on average. Oh, wait. That’s if they live in Illinois where the minimum wage is $8.25. The national minimum wage is $7.25. That translates to 74 hours a week. That’s almost a whole other full time job.

And what do you get for working 74 hours a week? Well, you don’t get heat, clearly. There’s a big ol’ zero next to the heat in that chart. In my building– we have separate checks for gas and electric– that would mean that not only do you not get to heat and cool your home, but also that you do not get to heat your water, or cook on your stove, if you have a gas stove (I do).

Also noticeably absent in this budget? Food. And gas. There’s a line for a car payment, but not for gas. Which is suspect, because if you’re working two jobs it’s possible you will pay more for your gas than you’d be paying for your car.

Also… health insurance for $20 a month? There is really no such thing as health insurance for $20 a month if you’re buying your health insurance on your own. I think the least amount is going to be about $215 a month– and that only covers hospital emergencies.

The rest of the article goes on to talk about minimum wage, talking about Ayn Rand, etc. Feel free to read it, but I was more interested about the fact that 74 hours a week really doesn't leave any money left over.

That budget leaves $27 a day for food, clothes, gas for your car,...

**sebster**

Yeah, I saw this earlier today. Absolutely blows my mind that the answer to surviving on a McDonald's wage is to work another job as well. They're straight up admitting that you can't actually survive on what they pay.

That said, it's fair that they don't put food in there. The people I've known who worked at McDonald's pretty much got all their meals for the week from stealing McNuggets on the job, and they were just working part time. Work full time at McDonalds and McNugget theft becomes necessary to survival, as well as delicious.

**Grey Templar**

Bottom line, McDonalds is not, and should not be, a job you work at permanently.

Its a job for college and high school students or someone who is between jobs.

**d-usa**

Yeah, at least there are more than enough jobs that pay more than twice minimum wage out there for people that might only have a high school degree so that they don't have to worry about a budget like this.

**Grey Templar**

Demand is greater than supply.

You know if McDonalds paid a wage you could make a living on there would be less jobs at McDonalds. So not much net change. Plus the service would be slower and the food more expensive.

**sebster**

Grey Templar wrote:
Bottom line, McDonalds is not, and should not be, a job you work at permanently.

Bottom line, 'should' is irrelevant, 'is' matters.

And the plain simple fething reality of life 'is' that many people simply aren't ever going to get a better job than a basic service one. That's due to a whole host of reasons that we can debate forever, but none if that changes the basic reality that many people will live their lives working jobs for near the minimum wage.

At which point we can just ignore that by talking about how long they 'should' be in such jobs, or we can be sensible, decent people, and start talking about how difficult life is for people on those kinds of income, and how absurd it is to let people exist near poverty in a society filled with so much wealth.

**Hordini**

It's not that hard to get a restaurant job that pays higher than minimum wage. Go somewhere other than McDonald's. Restaurants are almost always hiring.

**sebster**

Grey Templar wrote:
Demand is greater than supply.

You know if McDonalds paid a wage you could make a living on there would be less jobs at McDonalds.

Yeah, over here where the federal minimum wage is $16.37 an hour, or $20.30 if you're casual, McDonalds are ghost towns, with hardly any employees in them at all. Or possibly your argument above is nonsense.

So not much net change. Plus the service would be slower and the food more expensive.

The food would be more expensive. But then that's the point. Consumers pay a little more for a burger, and the employee gets a living wage.

**d-usa**

Hordini wrote:
It's not that hard to get a restaurant job that pays higher than minimum wage. Go somewhere other than McDonald's. Restaurants are almost always hiring.

Of course we are talking about having this budget for somebody that is working 74 hours at ANY minimum wage job, not just food service.

To do better than this budget you have to find a job that pays more than twice minimum wage if you are hoping to only work one job.

**Corpsesarefun**

Hordini wrote:
It's not that hard to get a restaurant job that pays higher than minimum wage. Go somewhere other than McDonald's. Restaurants are almost always hiring.

You'd be surprised, I've been job hunting for a few months now and none of the restaurants are hiring right now...

And that's in a tourist town in the middle of summer.

**Hordini**

d-usa wrote:
Hordini wrote:
It's not that hard to get a restaurant job that pays higher than minimum wage. Go somewhere other than McDonald's. Restaurants are almost always hiring.

Of course we are talking about having this budget for somebody that is working 74 hours at ANY minimum wage job, not just food service.

To do better than this budget you have to find a job that pays more than twice minimum wage if you are hoping to only work one job.

There are a lot of ways to reduce that budget too. Get a roommate (or roommates) and cut the rent in half. Cable is not a necessity, don't get it. Get a prepaid cellphone. Ride a bike or walk to work if you live close enough. Take public transit if it is available. Carpool. You don't need to buy new clothes every month.

Corpsesarefun wrote:
Hordini wrote:
It's not that hard to get a restaurant job that pays higher than minimum wage. Go somewhere other than McDonald's. Restaurants are almost always hiring.

You'd be surprised, I've been job hunting for a few months now and none of the restaurants are hiring right now...

And that's in a tourist town in the middle of summer.

I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US restaurants are almost always hiring. They tend to have a very high turnover rate.

**sebster**

Hordini wrote:
There are a lot of ways to reduce that budget too. Get a roommate (or roommates) and cut the rent in half. Cable is not a necessity, don't get it. Get a prepaid cellphone. Ride a bike or walk to work if you live close enough. Take public transit if it is available. Carpool. You don't need to buy new clothes every month.

The budget given by McDonalds has $600 for rent, so it's likely split with a room mate already. But then maybe not, because electric is $90 a month, so that probably isn't shared with someone else. At which point we're talking about a person who is and isn't living with a room-mate. Schroedinger's working poor.

So it's a screwy budget, but that shouldn't be too remarkable, because this thing is written by marketing guys trying to sell the Visa/McDonald's prepaid debt card scam. No-one involved is actually trying to figure out how a person on a McWage might reasonably live month to month, because they don't actually give a gak. If they did give a gak, they'd pay a decent wage.

**bodazoka**

Did we need this to prove that the minimum wage in America is completely sub standard?

Thought that was just general knowledge...

**Hordini**

sebster wrote:
Hordini wrote:
There are a lot of ways to reduce that budget too. Get a roommate (or roommates) and cut the rent in half. Cable is not a necessity, don't get it. Get a prepaid cellphone. Ride a bike or walk to work if you live close enough. Take public transit if it is available. Carpool. You don't need to buy new clothes every month.

The budget given by McDonalds has $600 for rent, so it's likely split with a room mate already. But then maybe not, because electric is $90 a month, so that probably isn't shared with someone else. At which point we're talking about a person who is and isn't living with a room-mate. Schroedinger's working poor.

So it's a screwy budget, but that shouldn't be too remarkable, because this thing is written by marketing guys trying to sell the Visa/McDonald's prepaid debt card scam. No-one involved is actually trying to figure out how a person on a McWage might reasonably live month to month, because they don't actually give a gak. If they did give a gak, they'd pay a decent wage.

I doubt that rent is already assumed to be split with a roommate. I get that it depends on the state and it would be a lot more expensive in California or New York, but in the Midwest you can rent an apartment for a hell of a lot less than $1200 a month (what the total rent would be on that budget if it was assumed that $600 comes from already splitting rent with a roommate). A brief search on craigslist reveals places with multiple bedrooms in my state for less than $600 a month.

I agree with you that the budget is FUBAR, and that the prepaid debit card thing is a scam.

**d-usa**

Hordini wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Hordini wrote:
It's not that hard to get a restaurant job that pays higher than minimum wage. Go somewhere other than McDonald's. Restaurants are almost always hiring.

Of course we are talking about having this budget for somebody that is working 74 hours at ANY minimum wage job, not just food service.

To do better than this budget you have to find a job that pays more than twice minimum wage if you are hoping to only work one job.

There are a lot of ways to reduce that budget too. Get a roommate (or roommates) and cut the rent in half. Cable is not a necessity, don't get it. Get a prepaid cellphone. Ride a bike or walk to work if you live close enough. Take public transit if it is available. Carpool. You don't need to buy new clothes every month.

So get a roommate, which will need a house with another bedroom (and increase utility costs. So you might free up $200 instead of $300.

Cable/Cellphone bill cut in half by getting a prepaid might net you $50.

Ride a bike/walk/public transit is a hillarious joke in about 99% of the places in the USA. The budget presented doesn't even include gas for the car to get to two full time jobs and you really are getting a pretty crappy car for the amount in that budget.

You don't need clotes every month. But even for me personally I set appart $50 a month for clothes.

So your wise adjustments increased the budget by $250 a month and actually budgeting for clothes is going to decrease it by $50.

So you found that person $6 a day and now they have $33 a day for food, gas, soap, detergent, toilet paper.

A tank of gas is going to run $50 a week if you are driving to two jobs every day. ($200 a month, but lets be generous and say $150)
Health Insurance actually costs closer to $200 than $20.
Heating cost of $0? My gas bill runs $50 during the summer, closer to $150 in the winter. So lets average that out to $100.
Water/Sewer is going to run $50.
Upkeep on a vehicle should include a budget of $50 a month (to pay for mechanics, tag, title, registration, inspection, etc)

So your budget suggestions increased the "spending money" to $1000.
Money that McDonald's didn't bother to include in their budget totals $530 and decreases the "spending money" to $470.

So a person working 74 hours a week and has a roommate has $15 a day of disposable income for food and leisure.

**Frazzled**

Grey Templar wrote:
Bottom line, McDonalds is not, and should not be, a job you work at permanently.

Its a job for college and high school students or someone who is between jobs.

All the McDonalds around here have neither. They are so new to Texas their feet are still wet from the wade.

**Rented Tritium**

There are plenty of ways to cut that budget down, but all of them still involve working 72 hours/week and an abysmally low standard of living.

If you work 72 hours doing ANYTHING, you should have some degree of comfort not present in that budget.

**Leigen_Zero**

sebster wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
Demand is greater than supply.

You know if McDonalds paid a wage you could make a living on there would be less jobs at McDonalds.

Yeah, over here where the federal minimum wage is $16.37 an hour, or $20.30 if you're casual, McDonalds are ghost towns, with hardly any employees in them at all. Or possibly your argument above is nonsense.

So not much net change. Plus the service would be slower and the food more expensive.

The food would be more expensive. But then that's the point. Consumers pay a little more for a burger, and the employee gets a living wage.

But that's just not good 'ole fashioned consumerism

**whembly**

Other than that visa debit card thing... which is a joke.

Why is it a bad thing the McD is offering budgeting tools?

**Frazzled**

Evidently McD is evil.

**whembly**

Frazzled wrote:
Evidently McD is evil.

Oh! That makes sense!

**kronk**

whembly wrote:
Other than that visa debit card thing... which is a joke.

Why is it a bad thing the McD is offering budgeting tools?

The budgeting tools isn't the problem. It's a good thing, actually.

The problem is what the tool shows. You need 2 minimum wage jobs to survive. Which sucks.

However, they do pay their assistant managers a reasonable sum, and getting up into the corporate ladder pays well. My ex started with them dropping fries in high school and worked her way to store manager and then supervising multiple stores. She became a training manager when we split, making comparable to my pay as an engineer.

**FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs**

How likely is it to NOT work in a minimum wage job during college?

**whembly**

kronk wrote:
whembly wrote:
Other than that visa debit card thing... which is a joke.

Why is it a bad thing the McD is offering budgeting tools?

The budgeting tools isn't the problem. It's a good thing, actually.

Agreed.

The problem is what the tool shows. You need 2 minimum wage jobs to survive. Which sucks.

Also agreed... so what to do? BOOTSTRAP!

However, they do pay their assistant managers a reasonable sum, and getting up into the corporate ladder pays well. My ex started with them dropping fries in high school and worked her way to store manager and then supervising multiple stores. She became a training manager when we split, making comparable to my pay as an engineer.

Yup... management career in franchises are solid jobs.

**kronk**

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
How likely is it to NOT work in a minimum wage job during college?

I don't know. I do know that my ex got raises every 6 months or so, before becoming a manager. Usually 0.25 at a time, but it added up. Most people aren't minimum wage long if they stay in one place for a while, but they still aren't making a ton of money.

When I was in high school and college, during the summers, I was lucky enough to get a swim instructor position at a private residential facility. Minimum wage as 4.25 to 5.15 at that time. I was paid $8 as a life guard and $10 as a swim instructor. Good pay at the time for no degree and a life guard and swim instructor certification.

**xole**

FoWPlayerDeathOfUS.TDs wrote:
How likely is it to NOT work in a minimum wage job during college?

I wasn't until one of the unions caught on. See, me and my fellows were hired as interns/student assistants, which payed 11-12ish dollars. However, there was a union for employees like us(low paid employees doing service things) which we weren't a part of. So, as a cost cutting measure, we were all fired and rehired at minimum wage, with a monthly union fee as a thank you.

**Breotan**

sebster wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
You know if McDonalds paid a wage you could make a living on there would be less jobs at McDonalds.
Yeah, over here where the federal minimum wage is $16.37 an hour, or $20.30 if you're casual, McDonalds are ghost towns, with hardly any employees in them at all. Or possibly your argument above is nonsense.

That extra money has to be made up somehow. Either the price is increased, Government has some sort of subsidy in place, or they have fewer employees. High wages, low prices, or fully staffed restaurants... pick two.

**Goliath**

whembly wrote:
Other than that visa debit card thing... which is a joke.

Why is it a bad thing the McD is offering budgeting tools?

Because that was obviously the point of this thread, rather than the point being that needing two full time jobs on minimum wage to survive is bad.

**whembly**

Goliath wrote:
whembly wrote:
Other than that visa debit card thing... which is a joke.

Why is it a bad thing the McD is offering budgeting tools?

Because that was obviously the point of this thread, rather than the point being that needing two full time jobs on minimum wage to survive is bad.

Okay then... let's take a step back.

Why is it necessarily a bad thing to work two jobs (or more)?

**hotsauceman1**

I think more then two jobs may be bad for your health. But two jobs isnt bad. What is bad is telling people in order to live on their wage, go get another job. It is like Wal-Mart having a Welfare office in every store for its employees.