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so ive seen alot of dominating in the early 6th edition by necrons but know it seems tau are turning the tables... what if the new space marine codex will take over what do you think the tier will end up in or the meta?

Don't know how the new space marine codex will look like so can't way for sure how the meta will.

Tau and Eldar, however, are good enough right now - especially with allies - to give the crons a run for their money.

hmm tau is like anti meta because they rip apart plague marines and destroy necron flyers....... sigh its the meta game i guess now just pick the army you like and hope they dont get nerfed and hope they get buffed


Automatically Appended Next Post:
o darn forgot about daemons... seems all the new codex's are great except for da and csm

It's a trick answer. Tau/Eldar with one as primary and one secondary depending on what you like.

Based on my experience, I would say the top 3 are Tau, Eldar, and Necrons. I have not seen too many games with Eldar but I would give the edge to Tau. They have counters to just about everything that is brought to the table.

yeah but who knows maybe everyones becoming ward....

Necrons just has raw power to give it the edge.
Tau is super adaptable. If you know what you are facing you can probably make a list to beat it better than they can make a list to beat you.
Eldar is really only good with serpent spam, showing how one OP unit can make a codex
CSM is really only good with hell drake, showing again how one OP unit can make a codex

Daemons with hounds and flying circus have been finalists and winners are almost every tournament. IG / necrons are also extremely strong. Tau will be the newcomer to winning championships. Eldar are balanced but wave serpent spam is the way they'll win tournaments I expect . I will be writing a competative daemons codec review and guide this week I encourage you to look at it.


Summary: tau daemons Ig and eldar are all wonderful. After that skill of the player.

Necrons, Tau, and Eldar are the top three, followed by Chaos and the IG.

jy2 wrote:Don't know how the new space marine codex will look like so can't way for sure how the meta will.

Tau and Eldar, however, are good enough right now - especially with allies - to give the crons a run for their money.

Jfan wrote:so ive seen alot of dominating in the early 6th edition by necrons but know it seems tau are turning the tables... what if the new space marine codex will take over what do you think the tier will end up in or the meta?

I'd say there's almost zero chance of Vanilla marines being a contender.

First off, Vanilla has NEVER been a top tier list, NEVER. They've been in the top third, and almost never in the bottom third, but they are never at the top. So odds are they won't dethrone Eldar/Tau/Necron/IG, but might be able to hang near them.

Secondly, power armor is in the dumps in sixth. With the proliferation of cover ignoring AP3 and better weapons and the rise of plasma and massed cheap weapons fire (buffed fire warriors, bannered DA bikes/tacticals) it's never been a worse time to be a marine.

Third, we KNOW what they are getting already, and barring some hilarious and silly mistake (helldrakes mark 2!) they are still going to be tactical marines, devastators, predators and terminators. Sure, we are likely to see a price break on....everything by 5-10%, but that isn't really enough to close the distance to the top level books.

In conclusion....don't get your hopes up for vanilla marines being the preeminent and/or tourny winning MeQ books for years to come.

All the legions like Templars and white scars will be getting updates but as stated..meq kinda sucks right now.

Seems like armies with cheap troops with access to a lot of shooting or MC's are doing the best. Cheap troops simply allow you to buy all those juicy guns or hard to kill MCs.

CC armies and MEQ armies are on the lower end.

Wrong. Nids have cheap troops with shooting and MC..not the most powerful army around.

Necrons troops are expensive and durable (coming back from the dead) but they rely on fliers and huge shooting mixed with things like wraiths that provide powerful CC.

You're right about mechs but couldn't be more wrong otherwise. Daemons are very psychic and CC heavy but are a top tier army. You're right FMC's are super strong but CC isn't weak if you have the tools to get you there.

If you've ever faced 60 flesh hounds of khorne using scout moves each being 2 W T4 Beasts with 3 attacks on the charge (either will be Turn 1 or 2) you will understand pain.

Ok I was going to say nids were a bit out in their own.

Necron troops are cheap because people only play the 5 needed in the flyers. All the other points go on fancier stuff.

Yes those flesh hounds are horrible to face. Especially for MEQs because they find it hard to put out enough shots to take them out.

Anyway yes there are of course armies that fall out of my previous assessment. Those highly shooty or high toughness armies are the ones that kill me now though without me able to counter (and still be all round enought for other armies).

Having a few armies that fall out of your assessment when they're so few non meq armies kinda makes it a bad assessment no offense. Orks just to mention them can still be strong but need an update which they are getting soon. They can bring a lot of dakka though.

I hate tier lists but I'd purpose this for the OP. In no order
P.S this is opinionated but mildly representative of what I've seen win tournaments. By top tier I don't mean friendly lists will stomp. Each army that is "top tier" has 1-2 spam strategies that other armies can't deal with. That makes them top tier. My friendly daemons list loses to meq just as often as I lose to eldar. Edit: tau and eldar are not major tournament tested because they're so new. European championships will tell.

God tier: necrons(have won /been top 5 and most popular at tournaments)
1: eldar tau daemons (new codex's)
2: guard (great allies for fire support) dark angels, csm for drakes, grey knights (often allies)
3: pretty much everything else
4: sisters of battle , black temp (pending fall update)

Thank you below posters.

jakl277 wrote:
Having a few armies that fall out of your assessment when they're so few non meq armies kinda makes it a bad assessment no offense. Orks just to mention them can still be strong but need an update which they are getting soon. They can bring a lot of dakka though.

I hate tier lists but I'd purpose this for the OP. In no order
P.S this is opinionated but mildly representative of what I've seen win tournaments. By top tier I don't mean friendly lists will stomp. Each army that is "top tier" has 1-2 spam strategies that other armies can't deal with. That makes them top tier. My friendly daemons list loses to meq just as often as I lose to eldar. Edit: tau and eldar are not major tournament tested because they're so new. European championships will tell.

God tier: necrons(have won /been top 5 and most popular at tournaments)
1: eldar tau daemons (new codex's)
2: guard (great allies for fire support) dark angels, csm for drakes
3: pretty much everything else
4: sisters of battle

I'd put the BTs with the SoBs.

kinda forgot about grey knights : \

I rarely saw grey knights primary detachments . Often taken as allies in tournament lists . Added to second tier. Sorry but my tier list but written quickly.

i know you believe necron is god tier but ive seen their wraithwing get smashed by tau

Like I said tau are too new to have been to major tournaments so it's possible you're entirely right. That being said tau counter flier armies well and give both daemons and necrons trouble with are arguably the other biggest contenders.

Well, Necrons are still top tier.
But Tau and Eldar are both very strong as well followed by IG, Daemons and CSM.

I dread facing new eldar wave serpent spam. at the rogue trader in Hawaii yesterday out of 40 people at least 15 were eldar. Nothing else really concerns me, guess I just havnt found the niche to beating them yet

 Carnage43 wrote:

jy2 wrote:Don't know how the new space marine codex will look like so can't way for sure how the meta will.

Tau and Eldar, however, are good enough right now - especially with allies - to give the crons a run for their money.

Jfan wrote:so ive seen alot of dominating in the early 6th edition by necrons but know it seems tau are turning the tables... what if the new space marine codex will take over what do you think the tier will end up in or the meta?

I'd say there's almost zero chance of Vanilla marines being a contender.

First off, Vanilla has NEVER been a top tier list, NEVER. They've been in the top third, and almost never in the bottom third, but they are never at the top. So odds are they won't dethrone Eldar/Tau/Necron/IG, but might be able to hang near them.

Secondly, power armor is in the dumps in sixth. With the proliferation of cover ignoring AP3 and better weapons and the rise of plasma and massed cheap weapons fire (buffed fire warriors, bannered DA bikes/tacticals) it's never been a worse time to be a marine.

Third, we KNOW what they are getting already, and barring some hilarious and silly mistake (helldrakes mark 2!) they are still going to be tactical marines, devastators, predators and terminators. Sure, we are likely to see a price break on....everything by 5-10%, but that isn't really enough to close the distance to the top level books.

In conclusion....don't get your hopes up for vanilla marines being the preeminent and/or tourny winning MeQ books for years to come.

Not true about one thing: 2nd edition was a worse time to be a non-Chaos marine.

As Primary detachment:

Eldar. Probably the best now.
Tau.
Necrons
.
Chaos Daemons.

As allies:
Imperial guard. Many low-cost bodies plus one vendetta. VERY usefull adition to marine (/high-cost elite) codices.

hmm seems like greyknights really arent up there any more:(

Jfan wrote:
hmm seems like greyknights really arent up there any more:(

GK are fun for sneaking in Dreadknights, but their scoring units are either too pricey or too vulnerable in my opinion. They work with Guard and Necrons, as both are great scorers, or as allies to quite a few armies for the damage they can do.

Jfan wrote:
hmm seems like greyknights really arent up there any more:(

Which is sad because I own a butt load of GK (3 dreadknights, 3 storm ravens, 9 dreadnought of various types, 57 strike/interceptors, 6 razorback/rhinos, 10 Jokaero Weaponsmiths, some inquisitors, 10 termies, draigo...the list goes on..)

The funny thing is I started collecting them because, at the time, my last edition Necrons were horrible and I wanted to win once in awhile

I do really well with my Nids honestly. If they roll the right powers they're a PITA to deal with.

IG have a necessary answer to Aegishammer - Ordnance Barrage weapons. Necrons can't actually do this that effectively.

In terms of pure power though, definitely Necrons. The ability to put every Troops unit in a flier is pretty huge.

Will C:SM be top tier? Its not a simple question.

What is Top Tier
To better understand the answer you need to know what is a "Top Tier" list. A "Top Tier" list is one that has a good matchup against more army types that it has bad match ups to.

Note I am saying list and not codex -- as you can often build the same type of list with 2 different books. For example, you can run a "Turn 2 Assault Army" with either DE beasts or Daemons.

Allies even open up this further, meaning that there are multiple combinations of codex's available that you can use. DE are really not that hot of an army, but throw in some Eldar allies and then suddenly they become a lot more deadly with Eldar shoring up their weaknesses.


RPS
In 5th edition, most of us played the same extreme build -- mech. In 6th edition there are a lot more extreme builds avaiable. This has generated a lot more of a RPS type of game -- though there are many more than just 3 combinations. I would say Rock-Scissors-Paper-Lizard-Spock is more apt.

You see this today. Bolter-Banner ravenwing is quite effective against many army types, but has some hard counters (helldrakes). DA body spam actually is pretty hard for Tau or Eldar to counter due to the sheer number of 3+ saves. Sure a wave serpent may be wounding 6 times at 36" distance, but that's 1.5 dead marines a turn. Who cares when you have 90 of them?


In Conclusion
Its quite possible that C:SM will have some excellent builds that are top tier. They might run MEQ spam better than any other book. They might have 20 point bikes. They might have 30 point normal terminators as troops.

We might see some top tier builds come out. Its really to hard to tell.