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I'm having a hell of a time getting my Eldar to work consistently (or at all). My main problems are Grey Knights with two Stormchickens that show up and murder everything around them in a turn; and Tau - who murder everything from anywhere no matter how well protected, in a turn.

I'm wondering if there's any help for me in the $50 Iyanden Rules Pamphlet - but I'm sure not shelling the bucks for those two pages of rules if they are worthless.

Anyone have any general advice, or specific knowledge of the utility of the Iyanden 'codex'?

Units I've tried:
Wave Serpents with the extras - awesome.

Wraithguard with D-Scythes - hard to get the points back, hard to deliver, hard to leave camped on an objective for what they cost - Tau don't seem to care how good they are on paper. When they do get within 8" of something, it does reliably go away.

Reapers with Exarch on an Icarus - pretty decent, but easy to counter.

Spiders w/Exarch with Spinneret rifle. Jury out on Powerblades. Deep Striking them seems counterindicated... When they don't scatter, they do pretty well. Their move may make DS unnecessary, but considering that I get to go first about once in 20 games - I like reserves.

Nightspinner - good on paper, worthless on the table.

Crimson Hunter. So much promise, so little value. Worthless.

Fire Prism - really nice.

Wraithlords - die to massed fire, hard to hide.

Wraithknights - die to massed fire, hard to hide, can't fire what they can carry (stupid).

Spiritseer - actually pretty decent, hiding behind a rock and throwing invisibility at the reapers...

Illic Nightspear and his Merry Men - amazing when I remember to use them properly, worthless against Tau who always go first.

Avatar - fun, especially with Fast Shot and Disarming Strike...but, like so many Eldar units (who for some insane reason don't have grenades) - ALWAYS GOES LAST. Yep, the initiative 10 molten fire god thingy trips over a tree root, and Joe Blow the guardsman gets to go before him... Unbelievable. And no, you can't really escape the cover spam in this edition.

Windriders - kinda nice. I have problems playing the patient game and holding them back for thier main purpose of jumping on some far-away objective late in the game. Also, not easy to hide.

That's about it. Any kind advice offered would be appreciated.

To tell the truth from the summary you've given your list seems drastically unfocussed. You might have better luck going to the army list forum and posting the full list there for critique.

Not sure how Grey Knight Storm Ravens are giving you so much trouble though. They struggle with most Eldar bar exposed infantry usually (except for Seer Councils; they make a mess of them).

Sorry for the confusion. "Units I've tried" does not equal "These are the components of an army list I've tried." My composition may be problematic (possible) - but the above was merely a quick list of my impressions of discrete units.

I'll try to help based on what models you have used first.

1) Crimson Hunter. Very difficult unit to play, but in the hands of a skilled player, it is monstrous. Vector Dance is tough to master. Also, never take without an Autarch, Comms, or both

2) Serpents - if you like them, spam them. Arguably one of the best builds at the moment

3) Spiders - Drop the exarch and spinneret, save 20 points. Don't bother with powerblades - don't get them in combat against anything but guard/tau. s3 power weapons are just bad

4) Prism - Great model, but if it's your only tank, don't even bother. Target saturation is key.

5,6,7) Wraiths - you seem to have trouble using these. I recommend staying away from them as they require a LOT of synergy to work. One unit of t6 models or a lone T8 MC with low firepower or low range is easy to dance around/ignore, and annihilate when needed.

8) Illic - Overpriced just for sniping. If you like him, try sticking him with reapers behind an ADL (2+ saves) or infiltrating spiders/dragons to the back field

9)Avatar - see 6,7,8

10) Windriders - large footprint. Don't take more than 3 unless you have a farseer leading them - Ld8 hurts them a lot.

11) Nightspinner - Fantastic unit. Crystal Targetting Matrix with a flamer is pretty cool. Barrage is amazing for character sniping. Pinning is great too - not great vs all enemies, but has great unit synergy. Use a FP instead if you want a jack-of-all-trades.

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The Eldar dex is very well-made and has amazing internal balance. I can find a use for any unit in the dex, BUT NOT ALONE. Synergy is key to eldar. Make use of allies!

E.G. Dark Eldar tanks with grisly trophies allow re-rolling psychic tests; Fortuned Archon; Twin-linked Tau; Reapers which ignore cover saves etc.

Good Luck - Eldar is traditionally the second hardest (after dark eldar) army to play

The easy solution to tau is definitely wraithknights. Its one of the few things in the game that can chase down riptides and beat them in combat while remaining a threat to other things on the board when advancing. Keep it stock loadout and fire at any vehicles/broadsides they have or the riptides if they dont have their 3++ up. Does it die? Yes, but 240 points is a steal for how much firepower the enemy has to take off the rest of your army to deal with this thing. Tau have no cost effective way to put out S8+ shots which really makes it hard. Before you start saying "but broadsides, hammerheads, ect" those arent cost effective. ~70 points for 1 shot S8 AP1 is not cost effective when you have to deal with 6 wounds, T8, and you being BS3 TL. Remember to stick that toe in area terrain also, as that 5+ cover save really increases the lifespan.

Against GK you should have few problems. Psycannons are 24" and heavy on their good fire mode. Simply keep some SL WS at 36" and use the shield every turn to whittle down squads. Once you have stripped a few psycannons, move the WS up and unload some guardians with Starcannon to wipe up the remaining squads. Stormraven is only dangerous to psykers and maybe a vehicle if you fail your 4+ jink. Dont bring psykers, or leave them in a transport. I find the mantle autarch to be the best HQ choice for most games anyways. Random powers kills psykers and the army has enough cost effectiveness to run without them. Mostly ignore the stormraven until you have removed the easier to kill threats.

Thanks. I'm an old hand with Eldar, but this codex has been exciting, and disappointing (in play).

FtR - If I field something, I usually field two. So, pairs of Nightspinners, FPs, WG w/D in wave serpents...etc.

I'm curious as to why the 2-3 shots with a spinneret rifle on the Spider Exarch isn't considered worthwhile? Just a points cost thing? Seems like a good way to threaten termies, broadsides, etc...?

Wraithlords don't really seem to support each other well, and the Knights I just can't get the point back with. I feel like I'm just missing something (save your snark, ye trollish ones - I'm not pretending to be a great player - I came here for advice! ;-).

 zephoid wrote:
I find the mantle autarch to be the best HQ choice for most games anyways. Random powers kills psykers and the army has enough cost effectiveness to run without them.

I'd strongly disagree. I always run a Farseer (usually with a Spear and the Spirit Stone, and sometimes a Jetbike) as my HQ, and I use the Codex Powers. They synergise with the army brilliantly. I usually run him with a unit of 10 DAs with a Shimmershield Exarch. A 4+/5++ unit with re-rolls on saves is nothing to be sniffed at and soaks up a lot of fire power. Fortune is godly. Guide is also just awesome, same goes for Doom and even Mind War isn't that bad. I've also had good success using Divination on a second Farseer. Psychic Powers are definitely the way forward, except perhaps if you know you're up against armies with awesome Psychic defence, such as SW.

Regards the Spinneret Rifle; it's paying a lot just for AP1 and a little bit of range, and considering they are AP1 on6 6's anyway, I just don't see the appeal. It's not bad, but just not great.

I agree that Synergy is critical. This can also be stated as 'spam' but takes a unique appearance with the specialization of eldar units.

For instance, I run wraith units. The synergy here is that I also run close combat units which are hard to properly deliver - harlequins or scorpions (could run wraithblades, but fewer A/W per point, and I don't have the models).

The wraith units job is "get charged" the close combat unit's job is "rescue wraith units". It works quite well, but only as a pair. Either alone suffer from drawbacks.

Prisms+serpents = a whole lot of AV12 with huge amounts of firepower. Prisms or few serpents is not that threatening.

Avatar is only 5 T6 wounds by himself. In a wraith list with lords or knights, you can present the enemy with upwards of 25 T6 wounds and 9+ T8 wounds to deal with. Conceivably @ 1500pts.

And finally, in the new eldar codex, most exarchs are not needed. The only one I take is the Reaper exarch. Even scorpions do pretty much fine without theirs (and theirs is expENsive with the claw set-up). Don't buy the flashy bits.

As to the supplement - i'm going to buy it, because I run wraith heavy lists all the time. If you don't use wraiths often, it probably isn't worth it.

Thanks everyone so far.

I actually have always like the wraith units the best. I have three built, more in pieces. I run D-Scythes in waveserpents with Holofields (just too good!) a scatter laser, spirit stones, and ghostwalk matricies, minimally. Lately, I've tried giving them star engines and vectored engines so I can blast upfield and unload them on something (and then spin back around and protect the rear armor). This is too expensive, and doesn't work as intended as often as I'd like. The slower move up the field also tends to get the serpents killed unless there's a good deal of cover, so that's not good either (but it is cheaper, and not much less effective). Any thoughts there? I'm not sure a third such unit is going to be workable.

The Iyanden supplement will not help you. It really just unlocks wraithguard as troops without spiritseers, lets you take 5 spiritsers per 1 HQ slot, and gives a few pieces of wargear. It is a nice book with some nice little options but does not increase the power level of the dex.

What you need is to watch some batreps and post a list in the list subforum. Eldar are a top tier dex now and if you cannot win with them that means there is a problem with the list or the tactics.

I recommend watching/reading these two players batreps. They are both good players and they play two entirely different eldar armies. You can learn alot of tactics and tricks from them and you could do worse than trying out on of their' lists.

Reecius;
Good footdar player. Plays some vehicles in his list and shows the utility of a non spam list.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/recentTopics/showTopicsByUser/0/2776/17.page

jy2;
Recently started mechdar. Good player and a solid serpent spam list.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/recentTopics/showTopicsByUser/0/23113/17.page

I will read those. My main problem is that I'm an average player with absolutely terrible luck, playing mostly excellent players with average to somebody-made-a-deal-with-Satan-didn't-they? luck.

Trying to compensate for that with solid list construction is my best option; and I'm happy to take tactical advice when offered. My losses are less about bad tactics, and more about luck and my opponent's skill most of the time. I hate to blame luck, I really do - but I must have burned down a dice factory in a past life or parallel universe or something...

dnptan wrote:


E.G. Dark Eldar tanks with grisly trophies allow re-rolling psychic tests;

Also for sh%ts and giggles you get to reroll your LD test for MSS from grisly torphies

If you like wraithknights/lords then the iyanden codex offers one really great item that could help. The wraithforge stone regains a wound on a 3+ for one of those within 12".

In 2000 points and above, I do use Dark Eldar (voidraven bomber and Lelith Hesperax) just for fun. Mostly, these are smaller games, and allies are not an option.


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 ansacs wrote:
If you like wraithknights/lords then the iyanden codex offers one really great item that could help. The wraithforge stone regains a wound on a 3+ for one of those within 12".

Interesting. I'd heard you can make a WraithCritter your Warlord, too - but that it didn't fill the HQ slot? So, it's not an extra Heavy slot, and it doesn't fill the HQ... Still, makes getting Slay the Warlord a little harder... Right?

That can be really useful but be careful as the wraithknight usually wants to play a more dangerous game than a warlord should. If you keep him back too much you will loose alot of what make him great.

A wraithlord could be decent but he is only 3 bad lascannon results from being a warlord point. Most of the really great AI weapons are shorter range which means infantry warlords can actually be slightly more survivable.

The tricky thing with Eldar is that we're not the best at ANYTHING, but we always have tricks up our sleeves. It's really hard to build an Eldar list that is as "balanced" as say a Marine list, but that doesn't mean we aren't TAC - just rely on other elements besides raw defensive/offensive power.

One important synergy point is range. Is your army close or long ranged? How do you make use of your short-ranged units when they're not doing anything? Eldar are too expensive to have idle units. They don't have to be fighting but they need to be doing SOMETHING - that's the issue with wraiths, they are easy to ignore. A group of wraiths though, well now your opponent needs to prioritize taking down those 3W wraithlords shooting at them, or taking those WS bringing even more wraiths to the front-line.

A squad of jetbikes are annoying, but a group of them with a farseer and some spiders make it something your opponent has to deal with. The sheer speed means your army will smash into his - and he has to make a choice which unit to whittle down. Always force your opponents to make difficult choices - eventually he'll make a mistake and you go in for the kill.

Thanks again. I tend to play shootier with my Eldar, and delivering assault units in this edition of the Codex seems even more difficult than previously. The lack of grenades is just dumbfounding (I'm not sure that's a word, but it should be).

Anyone got a link for a proven, current Eldar TAC list (especially one at <1500 pts).?

 ansacs wrote:
The Iyanden supplement will not help you. It really just unlocks wraithguard as troops without spiritseers, lets you take 5 spiritsers per 1 HQ slot, and gives a few pieces of wargear. It is a nice book with some nice little options but does not increase the power level

I didn't see any rule that allows guard as troops without seer.. Could you post the quote and the page number please..?


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 VoidAngel wrote:
In 2000 points and above, I do use Dark Eldar (voidraven bomber and Lelith Hesperax) just for fun. Mostly, these are smaller games, and allies are not an option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ansacs wrote:
If you like wraithknights/lords then the iyanden codex offers one really great item that could help. The wraithforge stone regains a wound on a 3+ for one of those within 12".

Interesting. I'd heard you can make a WraithCritter your Warlord, too - but that it didn't fill the HQ slot? So, it's not an extra Heavy slot, and it doesn't fill the HQ... Still, makes getting Slay the Warlord a little harder... Right?

Again could you quote this mystery rule as well... Unfortunately for the most pirated rules of 40k there's a hell of a lot of misinformation about what Iyanden codex does..
First of all its a good read.. I enjoyed the fluff immensely..
Second it does NOT!! change any force organisation that I can see on the whole two pages of rules..
And it definitely does NOT mysteriously give you a free slot for the wraithlord/ knight.. It's till a heavy.. No rules change that.. It's just your warlord AS WELL.. And still can't find this guard as troops thing either...
Third the warlord traits in Iyanden are actually pretty good.. The items soso or just plain rubbish unless you build around them..
So yes be very wary when people tell you what rules are in what codex when you haven't read them.. Most posts on dakka regarding Iyanden have been half-truths.. Misunderstandings because of third degree Chinese whispers of the rules or out-right lies..


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And lastly the primaris power of spiritseers changes to a pro-wraith power.. Gives all wraiths in 12" furious charge and battle focus.. This changes the potential damage output of all wraiths Immensely!!! Admittedly at the cost of conceal.. But it changes your play style to that of offence than trickery..
IE now your guns have extra D6 range.. And wraithaxes are instakill to T4 on the charge with wraithlord being S10 on the charge.. Battle focus on lords/knights is meh..
All in all doesn't change your gameplay unless your using a wraithzilla army... ie Iyanden

Wow, okay you are right. Wraithguard still require a spiritseer to use as troops. I have no idea where I got that from. Perhaps I had a flashback to the CWE supplement days.

Also it is 6" for the range of the wraithstone (I included the movement to get in range as you can use it anytime during movement phase).

This is what happens when you post without your book. Sorry for spreading the misinformation level.

Wraithknights still take up a HS slot as Strayan said.

Battle focus can be nice for the wraithlords to keep them with the rest of the army whom all want to close with the opponent or play cover hoping JSJ shenanigans. The wraithknight probably will only benefit from the power 1-2 times in a game as it will quickly get out of range.

Sorry man the misinformation rage wasn't directly at you, in fact I was surprised when I read your post and re-read my book since your usually the reliable one..

Note: I didn't say the WK gave an extra Heavy slot - I said it didn't. But I said I hadn't seen the codex, hence the question about whether or not people who had, thought it was worth it. ;-)

Actually it is good you called me out. I ended up rereading the rules and I realized the helm actually partially changes wound allocation from LOS therefore forcing you to put wounds on a wraithguard even if they are in the rear of the unit. I wonder how this interacts with focus fire or out of LoS wraithguard.

 ansacs wrote:
I wonder how this interacts with focus fire or out of LoS wraithguard.

It still follows standard Look Out Sir! rules for who you can allocate to, since the rule states that a Look Out Sir! event is what's happened. I *think* (but don't quote me on this) that it ignores Focus Fire and Line of Sight as a result.

My TAC list for tourneys is an 1850, but i can tone it down to 1500:

Autarch, Mantle, Jetbike, Laser lance, fusion gun, banshee mask, mandiblasters 160

10 guardians starcannon warlock spear 150
Serpent SL Holo 135
10 guardians starcannon warlock spear 150
Serpent SL Holo 135

3x Jetbikes cannon 61

Nightwing

3x Vaul's support battery
Wraithknight 240
Wraithknight 240

Quick question: folks don't seem to be enamored of the vehicle extras. How can you NOT take the greatness of the Holofield/Ghostwalk Matrix on your tanks??

@Zephoid - Nightwing? What's the general feeling on people bringing IA stuff to tournaments/pick-up games these days? I have enough trouble getting friends to let me field them in casual games...

Oops, forgot to throw holofields on the serpents. They are costed for it, but i forgot to add them in when i typed it up.

95% of people around where im at are perfectly fine with FW. The 5% are pretty much saying that IG get way too much good stuff from FW while the other armies are left with largely meh. Warp Hunter is one of the only standouts in terms of quality and i have 2, but the TOs here often limit FW to 1 of each unit to prevent spam and taking only 1 isnt very useful.

Warp Hunters are getting a significant nerf, and weird rules that don't behave like other D-Cannons on its gun.

It's turned into a... blast Ion cannon. I don't know how that's like Distort weapon at all.

Where is that rumor from? While FW has done more about faces with it's units than GW, the Warp Hunter was printed twice in its current form with a gap between the two printings. The Epic variant even is described as a distortion cannon. Honestly if they removed the flamer template the craft would be fine. The flamer is what makes it OP, since it can deny pretty much any chance at effective deepstriking/outflanking by simply reserving one. However, this is a bit off topic so i will stop now.

I don't consider it OT. I have one Warp Hunter, and the one time I fielded it...it caused MUCH gnashing of teeth.

So, I'm building two more today. >;-D

No, not to be a fethhead, we're playing a 20,000 point Apocalypse game tomorrow, and I'll field them in that big a game.