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Hi dakka,
I am creating a 1750 point army and I need your help deciding which Ork way to go. I've looked up a lot of armies but can't decide on one. I know I will be battling Eldars (some vehicles) and also space marines (land raider and 2 fliers). That is mostly what I know about their armies. With that said, what should my army build be like? Should I I take the path of Evil sunz (speed freaks), do a shootie army, or a biker army. From what I have read, these seem to be most popular and are usually very good against armies. Feel free to comment and also leave feed back!

Thanks in advance!

Ps: would it be wise to have Ghaskull Thraka in a 1750 game?

Ghazzkul in my opinion is only worth it when playing 2k +
Else against flyers and armor generally that can reach 14.. i say go for the biker army, a warboss on bike with some nob bikers as troop, then wasdakka along with a few group of 6-8 warbikers w/ a nob w/ PK/BP then tag along 3 dakkajets

Well did you have a couple example lists you were working on?

Because one boss' speed freaks list can be quite different from anothers.

 phatonic wrote:
Ghazzkul in my opinion is only worth it when playing 2k +
Else against flyers and armor generally that can reach 14.. i say go for the biker army, a warboss on bike with some nob bikers as troop, then wasdakka along with a few group of 6-8 warbikers w/ a nob w/ PK/BP then tag along 3 dakkajets

Would you think it is smarter to bring Warboss zhadsnark or wasdakka? Also to add to that, I've heard that kanons with ADL or lootas are very good. should I include those in the army?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Icculus wrote:
Well did you have a couple example lists you were working on?

Because one boss' speed freaks list can be quite different from anothers.

I will just copy paste a few admires that I have found on dakka:

30 Bikers are awesome, especially with 30 TL-Assault 3 weapons.
Out of those 90 shots you will have 50 hits.
Against MEQ that are 8 kills.
Against flyers it are "only" 25 hits and if they have AV12 it comes down to 4HP's gone.

I've made a list myself since I wanted a Biker army too, this is what I would do:
-Wazdakka
2x 10 Lootas
2x 11 Warbikers with Nob (Klaw/Pole)
A group of 4 Nobz with a painboy and two Big Choppas to be joined by Wazdakka
3x Dakkajet with Ace

Total: 1785 points and 30 Orks on a bike, 29 having a TL-Dakkagun.

#2
HQ: 2 Warbosses on bikes w/PK, attack squig, skorcha, cybork. (155 ea)
Just keep in mind which one is your warlord and try not to get him killed.

Troops: 2 squads of Cybork Nob bikers (360 ea)
1 PK, WAAAGH banner
1 big choppa, skorcha
1 painboy
3 slugga choppa
(REPEAT)

FA: 2 squads of Warbikers (215 ea)
6 Warbikers
1 Nob w/PK
(REPEAT)
This is 1500, so more bikes is in order

I can post more later, I have limited Internet

Best way to battle a Landraider army while being able to deal with Eldar trickery imo is with a Battlewaggons /w Deffrolas army with some nob bikers for good measure, a maybe lootas and dakka jets to deal with their flyers. and top it off with big guns or deffkoptas
As an example list I'd say something like this

this even has some room for upgrades or something
hope it helps

Okay I am not big on tailoring lists ..been working on a TAC list
So far the core is formed just the extras remain atm

~1480 pointz the rest I have yet to settle on

Big Mek/Kff,BP,Cyb,Burna
5 x Loota
5 x Loota
15 Tankbusters ( just rockkitt boyz) in a wagon with the big mek
20 Slugga boyz (PKnob,BP)in a wagon
20 Slugga boyz (Pknob,BP)in a wagon
20 Shoota boys on foot (Nob Big Shoota,BP)
20 Shoota boyz on foot (Nob Big Shoota,BP)
3 x BattleWagon/DR,BS,RPJ

I have a Seriously Tank Heavy Meta LR's, LMR's,Hammerheads, skyrays, Monoliths, lots of MC,s
Taking them down has been a challenge
I have had luck with Deffkoptas with Rokkits in groups of 3 or 5..(groups of 3 seems to be the best for scouting or outflank they tend to pop more than thier points in tanks before being run off) ..Tankbusters in Looted Wagons ..3 groups of 10 ) one group never makes it thou ..Biker squadrons work well to ..but when the Ig artillery starts dropping Nasty plates it gets painfull fast

*cringe*

Don't take Tankbustas. They're not as great as Lootas when it comes down to Elites. Lootas are ALWAYS your best bet. They can pop anything AV13 and lower at a 48" range. That, and the "Glory Hog" rule sucks IMO.

Drop Sluggas, Take Shootas. What you lose in CC you gain in dakka.

Drop Boss Poles to shave off some points for more boyz. you're running 11+ mobs. They're fearless until you get down to 10 (at which point you have bigger problems than passing morale checks).

DeffKoptas are great in whatever role you want them to do.

If you want a biker warlord, take Wazadakka. He can turbo boost AND still fire his weapons thanks to the Bike of the Aporkalypse!

With the new rules toning down furious charge, beefing up feel no pain what about the following:
War boss, mega armour + 10 nobs inc pain boy in a battle wagon, red paint, ram and 4 rokkit launchers with a couple of power klaws

20 hard boys inc nob with boss pole, power klaw in a battle wagon as above plus a rock kit launcher for the boys making 5 in all

12ork boys inc nob with power klaw plus rokkit launcher plus truck with shoota replaced with rokkit launcher, red paint

Another unit of 12 Ork boys as above in the same type of truck

18 storm boys plus boss varstruk

4 war bikers plus Wazdakka

The list gives you 6 units all very mobile, 5 of which because of the characters are troop choices and the 6th can deep strike and potentially assault in the same turn. Combined with a well timed Waagh very difficult to stop with firepower alone and as long as you use them as one mass they will chew through most 40k units - basically in a 2000 pts game there's too many units heading directly at the enemy for them to counter effectively - trust me I've been on the receiving end with Blood Angels and Dark Eldar armies and been given a right thrashing!

gvaldes10 wrote:

 phatonic wrote:
Ghazzkul in my opinion is only worth it when playing 2k +
Else against flyers and armor generally that can reach 14.. i say go for the biker army, a warboss on bike with some nob bikers as troop, then wasdakka along with a few group of 6-8 warbikers w/ a nob w/ PK/BP then tag along 3 dakkajets

Would you think it is smarter to bring Warboss zhadsnark or wasdakka? Also to add to that, I've heard that kanons with ADL or lootas are very good. should I include those in the army?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Icculus wrote:
Well did you have a couple example lists you were working on?

Because one boss' speed freaks list can be quite different from anothers.

I will just copy paste a few admires that I have found on dakka:

30 Bikers are awesome, especially with 30 TL-Assault 3 weapons.
Out of those 90 shots you will have 50 hits.
Against MEQ that are 8 kills.
Against flyers it are "only" 25 hits and if they have AV12 it comes down to 4HP's gone.

I've made a list myself since I wanted a Biker army too, this is what I would do:
-Wazdakka
2x 10 Lootas
2x 11 Warbikers with Nob (Klaw/Pole)
A group of 4 Nobz with a painboy and two Big Choppas to be joined by Wazdakka
3x Dakkajet with Ace

Total: 1785 points and 30 Orks on a bike, 29 having a TL-Dakkagun.

#2
HQ: 2 Warbosses on bikes w/PK, attack squig, skorcha, cybork. (155 ea)
Just keep in mind which one is your warlord and try not to get him killed.

Troops: 2 squads of Cybork Nob bikers (360 ea)
1 PK, WAAAGH banner
1 big choppa, skorcha
1 painboy
3 slugga choppa
(REPEAT)

FA: 2 squads of Warbikers (215 ea)
6 Warbikers
1 Nob w/PK
(REPEAT)
This is 1500, so more bikes is in order

I can post more later, I have limited Internet

I think I like list number one better. While you will not be able to assault anyone on top of a building you will be able to shoot them off of it. I would knock the warbiker mobs down to 10 to fit in a few more upgrades to the Nob squad that accompanies Wazdakka. Waagh banner and cyborks are pretty crucial imo.

But I would also say that warbikers are fairly expensive for a fairly fragile unit. You are looking at 4+ saves. So if somebody brought in a hail of fire, say a tau army, that would annihilate one of those 10man biker squads alone. While Tau is going to be the most extreme opponent and will always be the bane of Orks, a lot of armies are doing well with shooting this edition.

But the benefit of having two 10man squads is that when they focus their fire to take the one down, the rest of your army can light them up. Sounds like a fun list to play.

gvaldes10 wrote:
Army list [snip]

Why not run those warbikers as troops? You don't lose anything and you gain scoring status for them.

With the new rules toning down furious charge, beefing up feel no pain what about the following:

You'd be better off making the battlewagon cheaper by running just a big shoota, red paint, deff rolla. Those rokkits are damn expensive and no good on a wagon thats going to be going flat out every turn until it dies.

'Ard boyz are a ripoff.

Wazdakka is only ever worth it for his ability to make bikes troops. If your taking a whopping four bikers with that ability, he's a huge waste of points.

The WAAAAGH also won't have any effect on this list. It allows you to re-roll charge distances, but with mechanized infantry you should never have to worry about this.

Don't take Tankbustas. They're not as great as Lootas when it comes down to Elites. Lootas are ALWAYS your best bet. They can pop anything AV13 and lower at a 48" range. That, and the "Glory Hog" rule sucks IMO.

This. TBs are good in Zone Mortalis but rubbish in vanilla.

Would you think it is smarter to bring Warboss zhadsnark or wasdakka?

Zhadsnark over Wazdakka almost every time. I'd use the latter if I was desperate for more AA, the former for better CC and cheapness. Neither are that great though because of a lack of cybork - you want them for troop bikers and nothing more.

 Dakkamite wrote:


The WAAAAGH also won't have any effect on this list. It allows you to re-roll charge distances, but with mechanized infantry you should never have to worry about this.

If I remember correctly off the top of my head (I don't have the FAQs on hand and I can't access them at work... Bawr...) I think that the FAQs took away WAAAGH for all bike types regardless.


I agree with Dakkmite on the Rokkits. Don't put all your faith in them since Orks hit on a 5+ thanks to their BS2. So putting them on the Battlewagon is a waste of points. You'll miss most of the times with the Rokkits if you have only a small handful of them. They're better on the DeffKoptas where they're twin linked.

I was suggesting Wazadaka for that top list of having 22 Warbikers. Waz with 4 Bikers is a waste of both an HQ and a Troop Choice (not to mention the high points cost).


@Meggeson: You're wasting your 'ard boys by putting them in a battlewagon. You're losing their ability to sit on an objective and soak/shrug off wounds with their 4+ armor. Yes, a lot of things can pop that, but they're tough to dislodge if you use them right.

There are several ways that an Ork list can be brought to bear and cause serious trouble. The suggestions so far are all pretty good, so I'll give my input on the larger picture. The number one thing about an ork army you want to keep in mind is speed. Now, I'm not saying everything has to be fast; I'm just stating that if you're taking a ton of boys, don't bother with coptas or bikers. If you've got bikes, put your boys and nobs in trukks or wagons and blast them down with the bikes. Make sure that your wall of angry greenness meets the enemy all at the same time. The one exception to this is anything that is just for shooting, which narrows it down to lootas, SAG, and looted wagons.

On the subject of Wazdakka vs Zhadsnark, I'm with Dakkamite. Zhadsnark is better in CC (initiave 4 PK!) and his "special ability" doesn't take him out on his own. Waz can shoot after turbocharging, but then that's only 4 shots that are not t/l, so you'll hit one or two. To me, that's not worth it. Plus, Zhadsnark is 30 points less. Always a plus.

Waz can shoot after turbocharging

I didn't know about that one. Doesn't change my opinion, but that is a pretty neat ability.

If only he had like a flamer or assault from turbo-boost or something.

I'm wondering about Zhadsnark's tank shock. I'm not very familiar with the tank shock rules, so I could be wrong here, but I'm wondering if he can tank shock in close combat, and what would happen if he tank shocked *into* close combat hitting models that are totally surrounded by other models. They wouldn't have anywhere to go so they might be crushed to death instantly. Or of course, maybe tank shock into melee isn't allowed or whatever

*Consults rulebook* YUP! If you tank shokk a unit that is totally surrounded (by models, terrain, or board edge), the unit is destroyed (p 30). Also, Shad can tank shokk in the movement phase, which means that if that unit fails their morale check, they fall back. They are then shot at, and then assaulted, making them need another morale check. If the unit fails again, they are removed as they get overrun by the assaulting army.

You cannot tank shokk into CC. That would be HoW, which he already gets. You cannot tank shokk a unit that is in combat, either.

So I managed to get a little more from the player I will be playing against (sm), not sure if it will change anything:

Vulken he'stan
Terminator assault squad
Iron Clad
Landraider redeemer

Vulkan, making all meltas and flamers in the army Twin linked... It's a ork's nightmare... bring speed loadsah it!

 Delevarius wrote:
Best way to battle a Landraider army while being able to deal with Eldar trickery imo is with a Battlewaggons /w Deffrolas army with some nob bikers for good measure, a maybe lootas and dakka jets to deal with their flyers. and top it off with big guns or deffkoptas
As an example list I'd say something like this

Spoiler:

Warboss (Bike, Cybork Body, Powerclaw, Attack Squid )
150
Big Mek KFF
85
5 Nob Cybork Bikers (Painboy, Powerclaw Bosspole, Powerclaw Waaagh Banner, Big Choppa Kombiskorcha, Big Choppa)
365
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 big shootas
130 pts
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 big shootas
130 pts
19x Shoota Boyz, 1 Big Shootas
119 pts
Battlewagon with Deff Rolla and
110 pts
Battlewagon with Deff Rolla and
110 pts
Battlewagon with Deff Rolla and
110 pts
5 Lootas
75
5 Lootas
75
5 Lootas
75
Dakkajet (Fighting Ace, Extra SupaShoota)
130
Dakkajet (Fighting Ace, Extra SupaShoota)
130

this even has some room for upgrades or something
hope it helps

This list sounds promising and all others do aswell. I've heard that storm boys aren't what they used to be, so with that said, are storm boys still useful in 6th ed? From what I've heard, tank bustas aren't worth it so lootas will be it. I'm forming a decent army in my mind thanks to all your help, so thank you very much!

Zhadsnark I find is too much of a liability, if I remember the rule correctly, dont you have to remove d3 stormboys after deep striking?

Id rather take mad dok with a nob unit, and a dakkajet in the fast attack, with multiple lootas. Maybe a deffdread followed by a KFF big mek to make sure he gets into cc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also you can kit out a warboss with mega armour, attack squig and cybork body for around 100 points cheaper than thrakka and just as effective (minus his waaagh ability and extra wound)

tankbustas being branded as rubbish isn't justfified. lets analyse what you're going to be up against:

T8 monsters with 3+ saves
AV14
massed AV12.

now lets see what tankbustas can do:
glance AV14
wound wraithknights, lords and seers on a 4+, with nos saves allowed - that means no rerolling saves either.
utilise bomb squigs to break 2 vehicles per turn, by not shooting the closest vehicle
destroy vehicles with AV11+ rear ends in close combat using tankbusta bomms (yeah, everyone forgets about them) and tankhammas.
actually hurt T8 monsters in close combat, using unchallengeoutable tankhammas. on 2+'s! they also might be able to use the tankbusta bomms there, i don't remember.

what lootas can do:
inflict horrendous damage to AV12 or less
inflict horrendous damage to T6 or less
inflict horrendous damage to fliers
target things at a much greater distance
put some serious effect into your opponents deployment, they're rightly feared.
attract every bullet from the enemy army on the first turn.

no joke, i've had an army of battlewagons and trukks bear down on the enemy, they leaned around them and shot the lootas instead.

so i'll suggest you use both. there aren't many elites choices else that are worth it, and while if you intend to win every game bringing 3 units of lootas will do something towards that, there's a lot to be said for the fun of a game in which spam is kept to a minimum. there's also the fact that a lot of people now can deal with spam, and can't deal with variety. if i present you with 15 lootas in a ruin, 15 more lootas in another ruin and 15 more lootas behind an aegis, well, there's no choices that need to be made. if i present you with 15 lootas in a ruin, 10 tankbustas in a battlewagon and 10 lootas in a battlewagon, suddenly there's a lot of choices to make; 1 unit of lootas is bigger, but the other ones are more maneuverable... the tankbustas might get overlooked, at their peril.

if imperial armour is allowed, you can augment a shooty list with a supakannon on a battlewagon or big trakk, they work very well for the opening turns of a game.

'boys before toys', every ork player knows it. 'ard boys aren't worth it this edition, with AP4 being thrown around like everyone's a space marine, nobz get expensive real quick, but units of 5-6 with 1 PK and a trukk are very useful for dealing with wraithlords - want to challenge my PK out? tough luck, he's not a character. *krump!*, plus any nobs that charge are S5, so can hurt T8.

the magic number for guns on a battlewagon is 3, i've found. 2 big shootas don't do much, 3 suddenly seem to work wonders.

trukks don't work very well any more. they're fast enough, but overwatch hurts an already too small mob of boys. you'll need to chare 2 mobs in to deal enough damage, 3 against CC specialists. 'throwing rocks', however, is a very viable use for a trukk. sling 4-5 meganobs at the enemy in turn 1, flat out and sit in front of his big guns. watch as his army panics and tries to gun down the meganobs, and laugh as the rest of your army advances unhindered. what's thet? he didn't fall for it? well, here's some meganobs chewing through your army then.

thrakka's never really worth it, to be hnest - you can get 2 warbosses in mega armour with cybork for less points than him, and while they're not immune to instant death, if you stick 'em in the unit together, you can mitigate challenges entirely, he can't put them both to the back. treat them like a ghazzy substitute, don't split 'em up, you'll have more wounds, more attacks and more flexibility, just watch out for S10 and force weapons.

Hope this helps!

 randomtoaster wrote:
Zhadsnark I find is too much of a liability, if I remember the rule correctly, dont you have to remove d3 stormboys after deep striking?

Id rather take mad dok with a nob unit, and a dakkajet in the fast attack, with multiple lootas. Maybe a deffdread followed by a KFF big mek to make sure he gets into cc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also you can kit out a warboss with mega armour, attack squig and cybork body for around 100 points cheaper than thrakka and just as effective (minus his waaagh ability and extra wound)

Zhadsnark is an Imperial Armor HQ choice on a warbike.
Zagstruk is a stormboy special character. he's not an HQ, just a special nob with some special rules that allow you to charge the same turn you deep strike. and if you do this you lose d3 stormboys.

 Icculus wrote:

 randomtoaster wrote:
Zhadsnark I find is too much of a liability, if I remember the rule correctly, dont you have to remove d3 stormboys after deep striking?

Id rather take mad dok with a nob unit, and a dakkajet in the fast attack, with multiple lootas. Maybe a deffdread followed by a KFF big mek to make sure he gets into cc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also you can kit out a warboss with mega armour, attack squig and cybork body for around 100 points cheaper than thrakka and just as effective (minus his waaagh ability and extra wound)

Zhadsnark is an Imperial Armor HQ choice on a warbike.
Zagstruk is a stormboy special character. he's not an HQ, just a special nob with some special rules that allow you to charge the same turn you deep strike. and if you do this you lose d3 stormboys.

That's the one! I always get confused between the two! Using Imperial Armor HQs is a tricky business, some players strictly forbid it, like Buzzgob..

Ah, that would explain why I had no clue what y'all were talking about in terms of Zhadsnark; he's Imperial Armory. The only thing I use from IA is the Looted Wagon that allows Grot Sponsons in addition to all the other toys you can put on it.

Ossidium wrote:


TOTAL
1499 pts

HQ
1x Warboss, Warbike, Atk Squig, PK, cybork, bosspole (155 pts)
1x Big Mek with KFF (85 pts)

Elites
5x Lootas (75 pts)
5x Lootas (75 pts)

Troops
19x Shoota Boyz, 1 big shootas, Nob with bosspole (139 pts) (with Big Mek KFF)
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 big shootas (130 pts)
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 Big Shootas (130 pts)

6x Nob Bikerz (390 pts) with:
-Painboy
-6x Cybork
-1 Waaagh! Banner
-1 Power Klaw
-4 Big Choppa
-5 shoota/scorcha kombi


Heavy Support
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla (110 pts) (Shoota Boyz/Mekk)
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla (110 pts) (Shoota Boyz)
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla (110 pts) (Shoota Boyz)

So This is another army I've looked into. This is a 1500 so for 1750 I could add the tank bustas as Some Bloke convinced me that they are very useful.

That list looks awesome. I think you will do great with it.

IMO you shoud just wait for the new codex if you haven't purchased anything yet. If you must play orks right meow I would just buy boys and play at low points untill the new codex does release.

Personally i'd avoid any bikes, especially on the warboss. It's just a personal preference I just don't like them, taking a mek with KFF and a mega armoured warboss does it for me.

rothrich wrote:
IMO you shoud just wait for the new codex if you haven't purchased anything yet. If you must play orks right meow I would just buy boys and play at low points untill the new codex does release.

We're gonna be waiting now until the beginning of next year by the looks of things, since rumours are showing that Nids could be getting our slot after the Space Marine release

No one likes Nids, when you have an awesome set of green skins knocking at your- destroying your front door xD. But yes, Nids getting the spot does suck...

 randomtoaster wrote:
Personally i'd avoid any bikes, especially on the warboss. It's just a personal preference I just don't like them, taking a mek with KFF and a mega armoured warboss does it for me.

rothrich wrote:
IMO you shoud just wait for the new codex if you haven't purchased anything yet. If you must play orks right meow I would just buy boys and play at low points untill the new codex does release.

We're gonna be waiting now until the beginning of next year by the looks of things, since rumours are showing that Nids could be getting our slot after the Space Marine release

I saw that... still might as well pick something different or just wait untill next year because your not going to have much of a chance V. eldar and space marines with 4th ed dex < 6th ed dex.

rothrich wrote:

 randomtoaster wrote:
Personally i'd avoid any bikes, especially on the warboss. It's just a personal preference I just don't like them, taking a mek with KFF and a mega armoured warboss does it for me.

rothrich wrote:
IMO you shoud just wait for the new codex if you haven't purchased anything yet. If you must play orks right meow I would just buy boys and play at low points untill the new codex does release.

We're gonna be waiting now until the beginning of next year by the looks of things, since rumours are showing that Nids could be getting our slot after the Space Marine release

I saw that... still might as well pick something different or just wait untill next year because your not going to have much of a chance V. eldar and space marines with 4th ed dex < 6th ed dex.

I dunno, apart from Tau (and the sit in a corner and shoot anything in range with our ignoring LoS big guns) we still have sheer firepower, and if the grav weapons rule is true (the AS is used instead of toughness, so our ridiculously high save will come in handy for once!) we can still stand a slight chance.

And anyway, 6th ed. DA didn't really do much for them!

i can see that list working well, though i might use the leftover points from adding tankbustas to bump up one of the shootaboys mobs, give it big shootas and park it on the home objective, give the tankbustas the wagon, else they'll be kept out of range.

intrigued as to why you're having a bosspole nob in with the meks squad and none of the others - I'd have a bosspole on the mek and move the nob to one of the other units - 5 points to make 2 squads get rerolls will be good, even worth dropping a big shoots for.

the wagons have no guns - i seriously think this needs addressing, as while they will be going flat-out for the first turn, you've also made penetrating hits have half a chance of stopping your movement instead of a third. plus a couple of big shootas on the wagons costs the same as on the boys, but the wagon can shoot a different target, and the boys will still have shootas, so migrating the big shootas to the wagons essentially gives you 5 more shootas, and less chance of being stopped, if you get what i'm saying.

if you up the points and bring tankbustas, i wouldn't exceed 12 of them (why twelve? because i find 12 works!) else it's a bit of a points sink on what isn't the worlds most survivable unit. I'd also try and bump the lootas up a little if you can, 5 will generally fail unless you roll 2+ shots, while 7 (yeah, i like weird numbers) will suddenly have much more chance, and pump out 21 shots if you're lucky!

overall though ,a dead solid roll-forward shoot the soft things krush the 'ard things and shoot the lot of 'em with lootas list. me likey