Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Nob Bikers are good, but they are seriously overhyped. Play against IG with S10 pie plates and you'll soon see why.

Deffkoptas are great, yet I'm seeing alot of hate for them in here. They are cheaper, more mobile, and shootier than Nob Bikers and great at inserting a character behind enemy lines. They are probably the best counter to IG Big Guns in the vanilla dex. The only insurmountable advantage of bikers over koptas IMO is that bikers can take one shot flame templates and that Koptas need a character for leadership purposes

jcress410 wrote:
Bikers are better,

1. TL rokkits with BS 5 leave a lot to be desired

2. Nobs have 2 wounds

3. Nobs have a built in cover save, get an invuln and feel no pain

4. If you lose two koptas the're running off the board about half the time. nobs pass leadership tests (sometimes).

5. That unit of nobz will do a lot more damage in CC. A lot more. I'd even consider adding a waaagh banner to the nobz.

1. You don't take TL Rokkits, you take TL Big Shootas. Now it's dakkaguns with double the range.

2. Deffkoptas have the exact same toughness, wounds, armour, and cover as Nob bikers.

3. Deffkoptas have the former, the latter two can both be achieved if you really want (Grotsnik). Invuln isn't any use to deff koptas in most situations, and for all that nice stuff you get remember you *are* paying much more.

4. Deffkoptas should be run solo or taken with a bosspole biker character. They become essentially cheap ablative wounds + awesome shooty + outflanking for them. If taken any other way though they are very bad leadership wise.

5. Nobz are expensive CC units, so naturally they'll be better in CC than a unit that is both cheaper and shooting orientated.

Given all you evidentally don't know about Deffkoptas I'd say your not really in a position to judge how good a unit they are.

Hi Sleg and Dakkamite,

Thanks for your input. I have modified my list a bit to waste less points on PKs and spread around the dakka and actually get a 6th biker! yay!

@Dakkamite
I agree Koptas look super sexy. I want to run them for their look, apparently fun style (I havent played with them yet), and because I have 6 models sitting in a ziploc bag lol. I just cannot see how to trim my list to free-up 175 pts :(

New list:
1499 pts

HQ
1x Warboss, Warbike, Atk Squig, PK, cybork, (150 pts)
1x Big Mek with KFF (85 pts)

Elites
10x Lootas (150 pts)

Troops
20x Slugga Boyz, Nob with PK and bosspole (160 pts)
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 big shootas (130 pts)
19x Shoota Boyz, 1 Big Shootas (119 pts) (with Big Mek KFF)

6x Nob Bikerz with Painboy, 6x Cybork, 1 bosspole (355) (with Warboss)

Heavy Support
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla and 2 big shoota (120 pts) (Slugga Boyz)
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla and 2 big shoota (120 pts) (Shoota Boyz + Mekk)
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla and 2 big shoota (120 pts) (Shoota Boyz)

hmm i would probably try to put thebig mek in the slugga BW and give him a powerclaw (anti-challege strategy, if they challenge you you can refuse with either the nob or the bigmek and still have a Power Claw hitting that combat)
this also lets you have 2 big shootas in that shoota squad that had the big mek with it
It looks like a good swap but it requires you adding another PC and i dont know if you can make some swaps to have the points
also i am kinda sad not to see a waaagh banner with the nob bikers
it gives them all +1 WS (including the boss) so they go up to WS 5 (6 for the boss) making them harder to get hit by most enemies since most SM are WS 4 and most others are even lower, and also due to the same fact they hit much easier.
You could probably drop some big shootas from the battlewaggon for this kind of a change since those will usually only snapshot.
also you might want to think about getting a couple of kombi-skorchas for the nobs. 2x of these can wipe out an entire squad of anything, but they are specific to use and mostly help against bigger squads of squishier enemies.

Hi Del,

Thanks for the input. I really really like the idea of adding a Waaagh! Banner to the Nobz Bikerz. I had to cut some stuff to make it happen

I have a question though, should I be giving all these Nobz Big Choppas?

TOTAL
1479 pts

HQ
1x Warboss, Warbike, Atk Squig, PK, cybork, bosspole (155 pts)
1x Big Mek with KFF (85 pts)

Elites
5x Lootas (75 pts)
5x Lootas (75 pts)

Troops
19x Slugga Boyz, Nob with bosspole (129 pts) (with Big Mek KFF)
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 big shootas (130 pts)
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 Big Shootas (130 pts)

6x Nob Bikerz (380 pts) with:
-Painboy
-6x Cybork
-1 Waaagh! Banner
-1 Power Klaw
-4 Big Choppa
-2 shoota/scorcha kombi


Heavy Support
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla (110 pts) (Slugga Boyz/Mekk)
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla (110 pts) (Shoota Boyz)
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla (110 pts) (Shoota Boyz)

I'd honestly say cut the PK Nob from the sluggas, make them shootas, and stick that klaw in the Nob Bikers unit.

Big Choppas are very nice, especially if your unit gets stuck in combat for multiple turns. I would say take them if you also are going to give the Nob Bikers kombi-skorchas - do not underestimate the power of 6 S5 AP4 templates even if they are one shot

I recommend you split the Lootas into two units of five. If your only taking low numbers than several small units is better than one big one due to split fire and overkill

Thanks Dakka!
Updated the list above.

I need to keep the sluggas, cause I have a lot of them from AoBR, so for now I will use them one day, switch to shootas lol

For the Nob, I took off the PK and added it to the Bikerz, and added 4 big choppas... they are just so sexy! lol.
I moved the bosspole to the warboss, my model already has it on him

There's still 21 pts, not sure what to do... more kombi scorchas?
damn I really wanted some deffkoptas lol

few options, 3 morekombi skorcha's and give the mek eavy armour or you can give the mek a burna, if i remember corectly the burna can double as a power weapon in melee as well (unless it as fired that turn)

wazrokk wrote:
few options, 3 morekombi skorcha's and give the mek eavy armour or you can give the mek a burna, if i remember corectly the burna can double as a power weapon in melee as well (unless it as fired that turn)

Heya Waz,
Yeah I am thinking adding more skorcha kombis also, but my main question is how in the sweet hell do i put them on the nob bikerz? If I have them attached to the dakkaguns will anyone complain?

depends on your area and local players, right now a trukk i have in my army has a big shoota on it that i use alot of times as a rokkit and not one person has had any complaints so far. also depends on if your using it in tournments or fun play but i think ud be good.

Nobody has any right to complain if the Skorcha is on the bike. None at all.

As for just saying "these Bikers have skorchas" and not representing it on the model, it depends as wazrokk said on your local players. Here in NZ for instance I've seen vast levels of proxies and counts as even at major tournaments. But the opinion of most Americans I talk with seems to be WYSIWYG.

Are you ever going to edit the spelliung mistake on the title? btw congrats on keeping this post alive for over a month :O I'm not an ork player but dem mooscles! Do you have a green skin fetish?

wazrokk wrote:depends on your area and local players, right now a trukk i have in my army has a big shoota on it that i use alot of times as a rokkit and not one person has had any complaints so far. also depends on if your using it in tournments or fun play but i think ud be good.

Dakkamite wrote:Nobody has any right to complain if the Skorcha is on the bike. None at all.
As for just saying "these Bikers have skorchas" and not representing it on the model, it depends as wazrokk said on your local players. Here in NZ for instance I've seen vast levels of proxies and counts as even at major tournaments. But the opinion of most Americans I talk with seems to be WYSIWYG.

Thanks guys. I am going to update the list tonight, and add skorchas everywhere on these bikes lol. Can't wait to show you guys pics soon!
I am just debating 10x Lootas or 2 units of 5x... I have been doing a lot of reading on various articles and I find there is a constant debate on this topic lol

IcyFireKnight wrote:Are you ever going to edit the spelliung mistake on the title? btw congrats on keeping this post alive for over a month :O I'm not an ork player but dem mooscles! Do you have a green skin fetish?

Hey Icy, thanks for the heads-up on the spelling mistake lol... ironic you mistakenly spelled "spelliung" LOL
I Think the thread has survived this long because people are being super helpful and the list has really evolved from a beginner not knowing anything footslogger list, to a more effective beginner kind of knowing something wagon/boyz/bikerz list

I realised a few seconds after the post...just thought "mother of facepalms... "

there is ups and downs to both set ups for lootas, keep in mind both groups are not fearless so they cna go to ground (but orks leadership being 7 we run 50% of the time) groups of 5 are easy to kill off or make run, but if they do make you run you still have 5 more, if you pslit them up you can cover more of the board effectively help prevent overkill, soften up 2 targets before the charge, either way you do it lootas are devistating, just make sure to keep them behind some cover that impedes their LOS but not yours

wazrokk wrote:
there is ups and downs to both set ups for lootas, keep in mind both groups are not fearless so they cna go to ground (but orks leadership being 7 we run 50% of the time) groups of 5 are easy to kill off or make run, but if they do make you run you still have 5 more, if you pslit them up you can cover more of the board effectively help prevent overkill, soften up 2 targets before the charge, either way you do it lootas are devistating, just make sure to keep them behind some cover that impedes their LOS but not yours

Yeah that makes sense. I will try them as 2 units of 5x and see what happens.

Damn I wish I had the 50 pts for the ADL, would've been awesome
I am buying these in case I can make the ADL fit somehow, and add decorations on them
http://www.mrdandy.com/wargamma-linked-barricades/

Hey everyone, here is my "current/final list"... Should I be trying to get an ADL in there for my Lootas?

TOTAL
1499 pts

HQ
1x Warboss, Warbike, Atk Squig, PK, cybork, bosspole (155 pts)
1x Big Mek with KFF (85 pts)

Elites
5x Lootas (75 pts)
5x Lootas (75 pts)

Troops
19x Shoota Boyz, 1 big shootas, Nob with bosspole (139 pts) (with Big Mek KFF)
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 big shootas (130 pts)
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 Big Shootas (130 pts)

6x Nob Bikerz (390 pts) with:
-Painboy
-6x Cybork
-1 Waaagh! Banner
-1 Power Klaw
-4 Big Choppa
-5 shoota/scorcha kombi


Heavy Support
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla (110 pts) (Shoota Boyz/Mekk)
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla (110 pts) (Shoota Boyz)
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla (110 pts) (Shoota Boyz)

I'd not bother with an ADL to be honest, you can find some nice cover for your lootas on the table already (ruins or a dilapidated bastion?) and theres no point in having a skyfire gun when your shooting D3 weapons already and your BS would mean it was a 6 to hit either way

50 points to give you a shield to hide behind seems better spent on the Waaagh and Dakka rather than on something for Orks to hide behind (IMO...but fluff wise an ork building something that well constructed to hide behind seems unfluffy) I'm sure he'd just find a hole, or a crate and enjoy firing at anything and everything he can

I'm not an Ork player (although a mate is, so I play against them often) so maybe someone with a bit more Ork in their blood might say otherwise?

If I would put an adl i d just cut 1 of the nobs
5 nobs and a warboss are more than enough to soak up damage and still dish out tons of damage
also look into kombiskorchas. A couple only cost 10 points but can whipe entire squads

 Delevarius wrote:
If I would put an adl i d just cut 1 of the nobs
5 nobs and a warboss are more than enough to soak up damage and still dish out tons of damage
also look into kombiskorchas. A couple only cost 10 points but can whipe entire squads

Thanks Del!
Actually, my entire unit of nob bikerz have kombi scorchas!

And I will think about cutting the nob for the ADL!

Thanks!

Hey, it's me again..I know nothing about Orks anyway. I swear they are the pinnacle of bad marksmanship, so why the "shoota boyz"?

Also from a different perspective how well do you think your bikes and foot Orks will synergise? If the bikes rush ahead then they'll get hammered, but if they go as fast as the Orks then they're a waste.

Not sure if people have told you this in the suggestions but I would always take a nob with a PK and boss pole in every squad of boyz unless they are accompanied by a war boss or a big guy apart from that the list looks pretty solid to me

Ugh 6 skorchas are an overkill.
You will still use the dakkaguns 99% of the time, and only use the skorchas to soften up before charging, or een wipe out a squad completlely, and 2 skorchas are more than enough to do that.
So you can save some points there and cut down to 2-3 skorchas imo
Btw Ossidium, have you thought about cutting one of the battlewagons for a couple of trukkboyz squads ?

IcyFireKnight wrote:
Hey, it's me again..I know nothing about Orks anyway. I swear they are the pinnacle of bad marksmanship, so why the "shoota boyz"?

Also from a different perspective how well do you think your bikes and foot Orks will synergise? If the bikes rush ahead then they'll get hammered, but if they go as fast as the Orks then they're a waste.

Ork shooting is... unortodox
True orks have low BS, but they make up for it with volume of fire
For example 30 shoota boyz no upgrade have 60 shots, if 1/3 them hit (the average) that is still 20 shots that hit, plus since there are so many shots this gives a chance for bigger variance, aka going above or bellow average. Not to mention that Orks are one of the best Overwatchers
so this is why Ork shooting, while at a low BS, still drown the opponent in dakka.
as for the bikers, they are there to soak up damage (Toughness5, 4+ Cover, 4+ armor, 5+ Invul, 5+ FNP), and if ignored, they are a deathstar unit, that can destroy anything (Dakkaguns for shooting, and in melee they are WS5, Str 7 for big choppas, str 9 ap2 for powerclaws)
plus them being on bikes means you have a fast unit that is hard to kill and if they are focused, that means the Battlewagons with Deffrolas are rolling across the map

muchty66 wrote:Not sure if people have told you this in the suggestions but I would always take a nob with a PK and boss pole in every squad of boyz unless they are accompanied by a war boss or a big guy apart from that the list looks pretty solid to me

Hey Muchty,
I know how good these nobs with bosspoles are, but I honestly just don't have the pts :( I will have some pts once I make the revisions from below (removing some skorchas), but still not enough...

Delevarius wrote:Ugh 6 skorchas are an overkill.
You will still use the dakkaguns 99% of the time, and only use the skorchas to soften up before charging, or een wipe out a squad completlely, and 2 skorchas are more than enough to do that.
So you can save some points there and cut down to 2-3 skorchas imo
Btw Ossidium, have you thought about cutting one of the battlewagons for a couple of trukkboyz squads ?

Hi Del,
Thanks for your input. I understand now why the skorchas were overkill, I will cut 2 of them. That gives me back 10pts... any suggestions on what to do?

Also, I thought about the trukkboyz squads, but i really love the wagons they are so cool looking

Thanks guys!

IGNORE THIS Sorry!!

well if you drop down to 5 Nob bikers, (already 60 points gone) and plus cut down 2 skorchas (70) you can cut another upgrade and get another 5man unit of lootas ^^

Loving the army, I might even use this army as well! Too bad I need a 1750... Either way, very nice army!

Delevarius wrote:well if you drop down to 5 Nob bikers, (already 60 points gone) and plus cut down 2 skorchas (70) you can cut another upgrade and get another 5man unit of lootas ^^

Yeah that would be cool, but I think the ADL with 10 lootas would actually be better than just 15 lootas no?

gvaldes10 wrote:Loving the army, I might even use this army as well! Too bad I need a 1750... Either way, very nice army!

thanks!
I think if I every bump it to 1750 i would use the exact same list and add 5 deffkoptas because they look so sexy

ADL with non-fearless Lootas is just crazy, they just wont die xD
you dont have to have an ADL I guess, but if there is no good cover for your lootas in the deployment (like a ruin or something) you will wish you had a deployable one

 Delevarius wrote:
ADL with non-fearless Lootas is just crazy, they just wont die xD
you dont have to have an ADL I guess, but if there is no good cover for your lootas in the deployment (like a ruin or something) you will wish you had a deployable one

not sure what you mean about non-fearless, but yes my Lootas have no cover right now, which is why I want the ADL lol

Mob Rule gives them fearless when there are 11+ models in a squad
fearless units cant go to ground