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nob bikers are a damage sponge that does solid dakka and are beasts in Close Combat
deffkoptas are skirmishers that run around the sides and pick off vesicles or takes potshots at squads
they are both great and have a totally different in their usefulness, so I wouldnt compare them

jcress410 wrote:
Well, everything penetrates a trukk.

Then 1/3 of those explode, and there's no more buff for being open-topped. So, half of your dudes are wounded, and only 1/6 save.

You're better off walking.

Nope.

There is no buff for opentopped (apart from assaulting, overwatch) but trukks have ranshackle which makes explosions str 3 and 1/3 of avoiding explosions entirely. Also trukks can move 24" per turn.

Bikers are better,

1. TL rokkits with BS 5 leave a lot to be desired

2. Nobs have 2 wounds

3. Nobs have a built in cover save, get an invuln and feel no pain

4. If you lose two koptas the're running off the board about half the time. nobs pass leadership tests (sometimes).

5. That unit of nobz will do a lot more damage in CC. A lot more. I'd even consider adding a waaagh banner to the nobz.

You are a little off, but i can understand the confusion. They are different units. First off the Nob bikers are more tough. When you take a painboy you get a 5+ invulnerable, and feel no pain, awesome. Secondly Nobz hit like a truck in cc, they get HoW hits and then regular nobz get 5 strength 5 attacks on the charge, you can give some big choppas which charge at str7, and of course PK's kill everything. Thirdly a Biker Warboss is almost hands-down the best Ork HQ in the book. He is so fast, toughness six and smashes everything. That being said deffkoptas are there for shooting. They have the same benefits bikers do, being fast, getting cover saves, but they suck in CC, and die much faster. Twinlinked rokktis are good, but they wont kill as much as you want them to, mainly because its still not that easy to hit with a lot of them, and secondly because str 8 ap3 isnt that great at penetrating vehicles. I like both, but Nob bikers are better because they are such a huge tough threat that your opponent has to deal with them, making the rest of your army better and trust me if they dont deal with them, your biker boss will kill a unit per turn. You can also always detach your boss to go kill tanks everyturn, 5 str 10 hits ap 2 is much better at exploding any vehicle!!

^ what he said and str 10 if you give warboss PK, and a extra attack with attack squig, pk warboss on bike kills everything.

Hey Delevarius, Jcress, Josh and Waz,
I won't quote all three of you, but the message is loud and clear lol, I will make room for bikes! haha. I REALLY appreciate all the help you guys have given me so far!! I didn't realize nobz on bikes have a cover save?? is it because of the exhaust cloud thing?

Should I keep a warboss in battlewagon, and get another warboss on the bike?

Also, is 5 bikes enough or should I get a crapload? I am hoping to be able to keep some Lootas or something for some support fire?...

all bikes have a jink save orks have a better one then most bikes because of their exhaust rule. 5 nob bikers with a warboss on a bike should be plenty i wouldnt think but you might want to ask what others think.

wazrokk wrote:
all bikes have a jink save orks have a better one then most bikes because of their exhaust rule. 5 nob bikers with a warboss on a bike should be plenty i wouldnt think but you might want to ask what others think.

lol i am trying to find what the heck jink save is ... damn you google not working at work :(

lol a save vehicles get for moving basicly i forget if its 4+ or 5+ i think its 4, i don't use it to often tho so i would make sure ot check.

Jinks does nothing for Ork Bikers. It's a 5+ save on regular mv. 4+ on going flat out. Orks already have a 4+ save so they don't jinks. If Jinks were a +1 to save on mv and a +2 on going flat out. Then an Ork Biker unit would be even more awesome than they already are.

175 (5) Defkoptas for me are expensive cannon fodder. I keep the twin-link Big Shoota and for me they have never lasted long enough to Hit and Run.

705 Warboss Biker (PK, cybork, attack squig) attached to 10 Nob Bikers (Painboy, 10 Cybork, Orderly, Waaagh! Banner, Bosspole). Will have any opponent throwing everything they have at them and still they will shoot and assault turn 2 - basically tearing up anything in their sights. Unlike the Defkoptas this is a Troop unit and can take objectives after punching a hole right through the middle of your opponents army.

I'm very bias since I usually field the Bikers and the last time I used the Defkoptas was over 5 months ago.

Thanks for the input Sleg!

I don't really know how my army can fit more bikers in... I kind of like boyz so i want them to be with the wagons
Also, I feel like Lootas are really really cool and I'd love to keep them to try and shoot from far
Not sure how to fit the attack squig :(

Here is the updated list:

1494

HQ
1x Warboss, Warbike, PK, cybork, (135 pts)
1x Big Mek with Kustom Forcefield (85 pts)

Elites
10x Lootas (150 pts)

Troops
20x Boyz with Slugga/Choppa, Nob with PK and bosspole (160 pts)
19x Boyz with Slugga/Choppa, Nob with PK and bosspole (154 pts) (with Big Mek KFF)
20x Boyz with Slugga/Choppa, Nob with PK and bosspole (160 pts)
5x Nob Bikerz with Painboy, 5x Cybork, 1 PK (305) (with Warboss)

Heavy Support
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla and big shoota (115 pts)
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla and big shoota (115 pts)
1x Battlewagon with Deff Rolla and big shoota (115 pts)

your nobz are troops, not fast attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
warboss makes a unit of nobs troops instead of elite. They're never FA

jcress410 wrote:
your nobz are troops, not fast attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
warboss makes a unit of nobs troops instead of elite. They're never FA

LOL, I remember reading that in the codex and being like AWESOME... then i put them as FA

fixed.

Yeah thats one of the best things about them, they are scoring! That list is pretty much the exact thing I run at 1500. I like shoota boyz usually because they can fire out of the open top battlewagon!

TableTopJosh wrote:
Yeah thats one of the best things about them, they are scoring! That list is pretty much the exact thing I run at 1500. I like shoota boyz usually because they can fire out of the open top battlewagon!

Hmm... I did not know this...?
Should I make one battlewagon (maybe the middle one with the big mek) shoota boyz with 3 big shoota?

And also, dumb question, but the big shoota my battlewagon has, thats not a boy right? its part of the wagon?

Also just to clarify Nob Biker rules:
Nob Bikes, and regular bikers, have the exhaust rule, which grants them a 4 up cover save at all times (unless removed by opponent).
Painboy also gives your Nob bikers cybork bodies which grant 5+ invulnerable saves, so if they get past you armor save and or cover save you will get to use this save.
The Painboy also gives the unit Feel No Pain. Which means if any nob takes a wound that does not cause insta death. the get a 5+ roll to negate the wound! Awesome.

So here is a quick example to help you, say a group of ten marines rapid fire 20 str 4 shots at you, they hit with 10, and wound with 4. You then take your best save avaiable, in this case both its your cover save (+4) and your armor save (+4) so it doesnt matter. You roll those, and pass 3, but fail 1. Since it does not cause insta death (its not double your toughness) you get to roll your feel no pain save of +5, you roll get a 5 and negate all wounds!
If the bolters ignored cover and were ap 4 or better than you would only get your 5+ invulnerable and then your 5+ feel no pain. Hopefully that helps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No not a boy, just part of the battlewagon Do what you like, but i like to take 20 shoota boyz with a nob pk boss pole in my wagons.

TableTopJosh wrote:
Also just to clarify Nob Biker rules:
Nob Bikes, and regular bikers, have the exhaust rule, which grants them a 4 up cover save at all times (unless removed by opponent).
Painboy also gives your Nob bikers cybork bodies which grant 5+ invulnerable saves, so if they get past you armor save and or cover save you will get to use this save.
The Painboy also gives the unit Feel No Pain. Which means if any nob takes a wound that does not cause insta death. the get a 5+ roll to negate the wound! Awesome.

So here is a quick example to help you, say a group of ten marines rapid fire 20 str 4 shots at you, they hit with 10, and wound with 4. You then take your best save avaiable, in this case both its your cover save (+4) and your armor save (+4) so it doesnt matter. You roll those, and pass 3, but fail 1. Since it does not cause insta death (its not double your toughness) you get to roll your feel no pain save of +5, you roll get a 5 and negate all wounds!
If the bolters ignored cover and were ap 4 or better than you would only get your 5+ invulnerable and then your 5+ feel no pain. Hopefully that helps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No not a boy, just part of the battlewagon Do what you like, but i like to take 20 shoota boyz with a nob pk boss pole in my wagons.

holy sweet crap that helps a lot! thanks!
Ok, so I am going to stay with the 10x Lootas as back support, but I am for sure going to make one battlewagon shoota boyz. I just thought it was better to have slugga boyz so if they got out, they can do some serious CC damage? But I see what you mean about being able to shoot outside the wagon...

Also, how can I get an attack squig in here?

theres a few different ways that you could try and get the points for a attack squig, you could drop the 3 BP's you could drop 1 loota, you could drop 3 boys 1 from each wagon, you could take the gun off your wagon's to be honnest i wouldn't recremend any of those though...

if you really want the attack squig what i would do is drop one of the nobs PK's (probably the one going with the shoota boys as they going ot stay in the wagon as he likely wont be doing much CC), give your warboss a attack squig then either spend the extra points on big shootas in your shoota squad, and have that groups BP go to the nob squad (sense they are sittin in the wagon and wont be taking hits untill their wagon is destroyed)

another thing to think about is you might just not want to take the attack squig, while it is good it might not be the best for your army everyone plays differently and maybe those 15 points are being spent better with what you already have.

wazrokk wrote:
theres a few different ways that you could try and get the points for a attack squig, you could drop the 3 BP's you could drop 1 loota, you could drop 3 boys 1 from each wagon, you could take the gun off your wagon's to be honnest i wouldn't recremend any of those though...

if you really want the attack squig what i would do is drop one of the nobs PK's (probably the one going with the shoota boys as they going ot stay in the wagon as he likely wont be doing much CC), give your warboss a attack squig then either spend the extra points on big shootas in your shoota squad, and have that groups BP go to the nob squad (sense they are sittin in the wagon and wont be taking hits untill their wagon is destroyed)

another thing to think about is you might just not want to take the attack squig, while it is good it might not be the best for your army everyone plays differently and maybe those 15 points are being spent better with what you already have.

Awesome tips, let me think about this

OK, last question for a while...
If I have a Nob Biker, when he shoots, the gun that is used is the dakka gun on the bike right? no longer his slugga? I am asking because if I make these models, I want to know if it makes more sense for them to be holding choppa or a gun...

Thanks!

the dakka gun is on the bike so he does have his sluga and can fire both if i recall corectly

wazrokk wrote:
the dakka gun is on the bike so he does have his sluga and can fire both if i recall corectly

Hmm, ok so there is no point to have the slugga on the model yay!

lol btw if you ever finish your custom ADL you should throw up pics of it, i want ot see one all orked out

wazrokk wrote:
lol btw if you ever finish your custom ADL you should throw up pics of it, i want ot see one all orked out

My list doesnt have an ADL anymore :(

But I will hang onto my pieces and build it if i need to one day... I was so excited to build that damn ork ADL lol

lol just cus its not in this list doesnt mean you can't make one or have more then 1 list. ive got a few different lists just so i can switch it up every once in a while.

wazrokk wrote:
lol just cus its not in this list doesnt mean you can't make one or have more then 1 list. ive got a few different lists just so i can switch it up every once in a while.

you win. I will order the ADL and ork it to straight dakka and back!

k, lol so have you tested out your list at all yet? if so hows it been working for ya?

wazrokk wrote:
k, lol so have you tested out your list at all yet? if so hows it been working for ya?

not at all, working on getting the models and starting my conversions

Still debating how many shoota boyz vs slugga boyz
Also debating adding another PK to the Biker squad...

nice lol im sure it wont take you to long to have it finished and be ready to krump the 'umans

wazrokk wrote:
nice lol im sure it wont take you to long to have it finished and be ready to krump the 'umans

nope!
my cousin played blood angels, and our friend plays dark angels... so much 'uman kumpin and dakka coming up!

4+ on average is 50% on all rolled
5+ is 33%

so 4 wounds saves 2 and feel no pain saves 1. Causing 1 wound on the closest 2 wound figure. Their shot is over.

The only reason I take a Full 10 pack of Nobs,is because if they have 8 units and fire everything at them they will remove on average 4, but they will have nothing left. Once you engage in melee, they will no longer shoot them, instead you will remove any unit on their Melee, shoot and reengage into melee, starting with turn 2, and if everything works out well, you will eliminate half their force before the end of game and if there is an objective stilling in their deployment zone - this one unit will add 4 points to your score. Plus if they are throwing everything at them, you will get First Blood and Kill the warlord as well.
But only if you are starting with the full 10 pack, 5 will struggle for the same result or you have to roll exceptionally well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For me it's always only shootas, more dakka!
Nobs with a PK are useful but not as much as they sound. Depend more on your Warboss with an attack squig to deliver 6 attacks on the charge. Keeping the Nobs on int 3 does make a difference. If you have a lot of points left over, First take more bikes, once they are filled, then start another unit or give another unit upgrades. No matter how you plan it there wont be enough points left over to give Nobs PK.