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Hello,

In the last year my Space Wolves played against Dark Eldar, CSM, Orks, Tau and Nids.
About 80% of games were lost. My SW are always shot to the last one.
Every army has some awesome units with lots of shooting. Flyers are a big problem as well.

Today my 2000 SW army was cut down by Tau (Riptide with Fusion Blaster) with a detachement of IG ( Chimera with MultiLaser, loaded with veterans with Laser, Sniper and Autocannon).
Last week an Ork shooting horde cut down all my units in turn 5.

Space Wolves should excel in close quarters, but it is hard to get there, and once i do it is easy to be shot by overwatch (eg. ork or IG horde).
How the space wolves should be played in the 6th edition in order to win a game or two?

I think the problem is that you're playing them as an assault army. Space Wolves are better as a shooting army that can hold their own if they get charged (or who can charge if it would be more beneficial than shooting instead). I find that moving into rapid fire range and firing bolters, then taking a charge and depending on counter-attack is more effective than actually focusing on a charge with Grey Hunters (especially since you can't charge out of a Rhino now). Rhinos and Drop Pods are both very viable delivery systems for your troops.

In terms of HQs, Rune Priests and Wolf Priests tend to be our best options in my experience. Wolf Guard as pack leaders are pretty good, but not a must-take by any means. I'm actually really liking Wolf Scouts too, take 5 with 2 plasma pistols and a plasma gun and you can threaten back-line units. Also, Long Fangs are still our best choice for Heavy Support, a mixture of Missile Launchers and Lascannons or Plasma Cannons is recommended there (because Missiles by themselves aren't as good as they were in 5th ed).

Oh and if you're looking for an simple and easy solution: Guard allies. Cheap veterans or infantry squads plus Vendettas are full of win and are easy to plug and play for less than 500pts. Space Marines might make for good allies too when the new Dex dropped.

I've always said allies break the game, your above opponent chose to exploit them. At this point the only thing you can do is join them.

Take guard and your own Vendettas to cover your anti air needs. Or whatever flavor of ally you like as long as it will cover your anti-air needs.

As for everything else, think about drop podding down your wolves with some flamers. They really help eat away large units, and even make others think twice about charging you.

I also agree that Wolves do better letting the guy come to them. You can play the short range shooting game with the best of them. Focus your attention and let them come to you.

Still, allies break the game - and i would prefer to run a Space Wolves army. For horde armies drop poding units with flamers should work. But what about stand and shoot armies like Tau. I can't assault of a drop pod, and the will shoot me dead in their shooting turn or the overwatch.

What kind of list are you running?

I played a space wolf player yesterday and his army was more shooty than close combat (he did have thunderwolf cav and some cc terminators). The units that were REALLY effective were the runepriest, dreadnought with 2 twinlinked autocannons, thunderwolf cav, and putting 1 terminator in his troopsquads, he soaked up wounds with that terminator like crazy.

Focus on firepower and have some good cc on the side.

My list looks like this:


Rune Priest - Runic Armour, Chooser, Divination (Prescience)
Rune Priest - Runic Armour, Chooser, Jaws, Living Lightning, Bike

Grey Hunters x10 - Melta, Flamer, Wulfen, Standard, Droppod
Grey Hunters x10 - Flamer x2, Wulfen, Standard, Rhino
Grey Hunters x10 - Melta x2, Wulfen, Standard, Rhino
Grey Hunters x6 - Flamer, Wulfen, Standard, Razorback (TL Lass)

Long Fangs x6 - ML x5, Razorback (TL Assault)
Long Fangs x6 - HB x5, Razorback (TL HB)
Vindicator - Hunter Killer, Siege Shield, Storm Bolter

SwiftClaws x4 - Flamer
Land Speeder x2 - TL Melta, HFlamer

Aegis Line - Quad Gun


It was designed for a low Initiative armies - Orks, Nids.
For tougher armies (CSM) i can switch my Land Speeders and HBolter Fangs to:

- Dreadnaught, 2 x TL Autocannon
- Dreadnaught, HFlamer, TL HFlamer, CCW, Drop Pod
- Predator - Autocannon + TL Las
- Thunderwolf Cavalery x4 - 4 x Shield, PowerFist

Well the First issue I see is that you have only one Drop Pod. Unless you are just dropping it mid field I am going to guess that is the 1st unit to die.

Second: You have Swist Flaws and no Wolf Priest, one would really change how well they fight.

Third: Though it is nice to see Long Fangs that are not 5x Missile Launchers x3, Mix them up, 2xML/3xHB and 3xML/2xHB. Maybe add a Las-Cannon or Plasma Cannon to each. My normal mix is 2x Las-Cannon, 2x Missile Launcher and a Heavy Bolter.

My suggestions
List Building:
>Replace the 1st Grey Hunters Melta/Flamer with 2x Melta, 2x Flamer or 2x Plasma Guns, it has no focus.
>Add a Wolf Priest on a Bike for the Swift Claws
>Unless you really like the Vindicator, go with Rifleman-Dread or the Predator.
>Take one of your Thunder Wolf Calvary and make him a Thunderlord with a Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield or Wolf Claw/Power Fist (This makes him Anti-Armor/MC and Anti-Infantry). With the rest of the TWC his Body Guard. Don’t forget Saga of the Bear.
>All Pods or No Pods! If you decide you are going to not 100% Pod go with 3, that way two of them can support each other.

Tactical: You are a Space Wolf Army: Good Shooty with Superior Counter Attack as a Default Army, use it.
Grey Hunters: Here is a little trick a lot of use for Grey Hunters with the Wolf Standard.
>If you see that you are going to be Assaulted next Turn wait until YOUR Assault Phase before activating it.
>Then when he Assaults you get to re-roll Everything! Overwatch Fire, Wound Rolls, Armor Saves.
>You also have a decent chance of getting your Counter Attack.
>Also Remember you can not be Challenged, a Grey Hunter armed with a Power Axe or Power Maul will really wreck havoc.

These are some things that might help.

Ok, few questions then:

- how can I build up for a stay-and-shoot army - like Tau or Guard ? Tau can ignore cover on a lot of things, and it is hard to assault them (Overwatch +5). On the ther hand - IG can deploy more heavy armour than I can shoot every turn.
- same question - how can I setup for horde, CC army (nids/orks) ? Razorback SPam + jaws?

All best,

gausus wrote:
Ok, few questions then:

- how can I build up for a stay-and-shoot army - like Tau or Guard ? Tau can ignore cover on a lot of things, and it is hard to assault them (Overwatch +5). On the there hand - IG can deploy more heavy armour than I can shoot every turn.

Every Army has that problem now.
Space Wolves are a medium Ranged Army; you do your best at 24” or less. Now I have not fought Tau yet so this is just from reading everything I can about them. You want to get close and Assault them. You actually want to stay in Melee as much as possible, that way they will not be able to shoot you. You also want to use Target Priority Yes their over watch can be scary so go after the Path finders first and get rid of the “Assault Phase” Marker Lights. Crisis Suits, Krak Missiles, their 2+ Armors, Melta Guns and Plasma Guns. Also think Pods.

- same question - how can I setup for horde, CC army (Nids/Orks) ? Razorback SPam + jaws?

My advice is get in close and stay there.
Razorbacks, you want Heavy Bolters or Assault Cannon for RoF. Me, I gust go Gunline with Plasma Guns.
JotWW is highly over rated in my opinion.
Vs. Orks: you are probably going to go 1st in Assaults so think Power Swords and Power Mauls. Give you Swift Claws a Power Lance.
Vs. Nids: You are going last so I would think Power Fist and Power Axes.
The best tool I have come up with for hors actually are Lone Wolves. I run a Pair [Blitz and Muzzle], they have a Storm Shield, CCW and MotW, other than a pair of Wolves to absorb wound that’s it, and they are cheep [85 points with the Wolves] and effective. If they can get sucked in to a multi-turn Melee with a mob, this will give you time to take out other things with your shooting.
Your Dread with two Flamers can also do a lot of damage two.

Also think about Njal. He has won many a game for me just from his Weather dominator. If are really concerned put him in his Terminator Armor.

Wolf Guard Terminators: These can also make a difference, keep them cheep, Power Weapon, Storm Bolter and maybe a Heavy Weapon, like a Cyclone with your Long Fangs.

Hello,

Thanks for all the info. That is most helpful.
I have one problem with the wolves - besides Land Raider - i have no assault transport. Both rhino and drop pod prevent me from assaulting the same turn i deploy. So both IG and Tau have a round of free shooting at me. And then they get another in Overwatch.
I have no idea how to work around it.
I was thinking about Fenrisian Wolves tarpits - but i have no idea other than that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One more thing - there are things like Riptide - is there any other way of killing them, besides Jaws?
Hmm, a drop pod with 10 Combi plasma/melta Wolf Guard might do the trick...?

gausus wrote:
Hello,

Thanks for all the info. That is most helpful.
I have one problem with the wolves - besides Land Raider - i have no assault transport. Both rhino and drop pod prevent me from assaulting the same turn i deploy. So both IG and Tau have a round of free shooting at me. And then they get another in Overwatch.
I have no idea how to work around it.
I was thinking about Fenrisian Wolves tarpits - but i have no idea other than that.

For this, take Rhinos, disembark in front of the enemy and shoot them, and then use the Rhinos' flat out movement to block LOS of the Grey Hunters. With a bit of maneuvering this should be pretty effective, and forces your opponent to waste shots on the Rhinos if they want to kill the Grey Hunters.

That could work, with some luck. A 6" explosion of a rhino could make things harder.

You unfortunately aren't in a great position to fight fliers. Other than that, SW is incredibly shooty. Grey Hunters in Pods with dual Special Weapons accompanied by a Jaws priest. Missile Fangs chilling out with a CML or Living Lightning Rune Priest behind an ADL. TWC or Wolf Lord units with ablative wolves joined to get them there are still viable.

I wouldn't worry about anti-flier as much as worrying about winning the ground game.

As for Heavy Support - what should one take:
- vindicator looks ok,but the range is a bit to small and a hit is a gamble. In most of my games vindicator is the first one to be shoot down.
- whirlwind? Isn't it to weak?
- predator looks fine to, especially in set of 2-3

gausus wrote:
Hello,

Thanks for all the info. That is most helpful.
I have one problem with the wolves - besides Land Raider - i have no assault transport. Both rhino and drop pod prevent me from assaulting the same turn i deploy. So both IG and Tau have a round of free shooting at me.

With the few exceptions every army has to deal with problem.
Drop Pod Assault has nothing to do with Assault, It is an Assassination method.
Example: Remember its about Target Priority.
Lets say you have 5 Drop Pods:
1] Wolf Guard Terminators with Arjac and Assault Cannons
2] Dreadnaught with the Heavy Flamers
3] Grey Hunters with Plasma Guns
4] Grey Hunters with Flamers
5] Grey Hunter with Melta Guns
What do you do with them?
Tau: Lets say you have a Broadside Team, two Crisis Suit Teams, Riptide and some Pathfinder with Darkstrider in Ruins.
What are you three biggest threats?
1] Pathfinders
2] The Broadsides
3] The Riptide
Me I would look at the Riptide as a Target for your Long Fangs [hopefully with a couple of Las Cannons in each] so ignore the Riptide with your pods.
So that leave the Broadsides and the Pathfinders.
A] Drop the Dreadnaught and the Flamer Armed Grey Hunters near the Pathfinders and burn them out of their Trenches.
B] The Plasma Gun Armed Grey Hunters near the Broudsides and feed them 4 Plasma Shots [5 With the Plasma Pistol] along with the Bolt Guns. If you are lucky you will force a Moral Check and send them off the Board Quickly.
The other 2 Pods are for later turns you have two others that can either take down the Riptide or something else when they come in.
With Tau, if you can get within 12”, with them having active Markerlights you should win a gunfight, most of the Time.
Also remember that the unit that fires the Markerlights cant take advantage of them for their shooting.

And then they get another in Overwatch. I have no idea how to work around it.
Yes and you get the same option. You have good armor. If you Feel You Need to Assault with your Grey Hunters Activate your Wolf Banner in your Shooting Phase and you will get to re-Rolls.
Multi-Assault, try to get multiple units in Assault Range at the same time. Start with the Unit closest distance. This will force your opponent to decide who to Overwatch.
Overwatch [at least for me] has added concern to my assault, but remember if there are no Markerlights, they are snap firing.
My actual suggestion works for most Armies, don’t Assault, make them assault you, take your Overwatch Fire.

I was thinking about Fenrisian Wolves tarpits - but i have no idea other than that.
They are sort of a Gimic, a FUN Gimic, but they get the job done with luck.

For heavy... its longfangs... and if its not longfangs, its still longfangs.

Space wolves still do well in the current game, if there's no fliers.

They have some of the best basic troops in the game, so make the most of them.

Beyond that, it's all personal and tactical choices, but remember, if your unit isn't doing what it needs to do, go back to the drawing board.

A LR is great for getting terminators to the front, and also for giving cover/LOS blocking rhinos.

I have a funny feeling you are trying to out shoot tau. Don't. get to melee ASAP.

gausus wrote:
That could work, with some luck. A 6" explosion of a rhino could make things harder.

5+ to wound and 3+ saves should nullify the damage there for the most part, or at the very least the casualties will be better than getting hit with the weapons that took out the Rhino. Heck, if they fail to make it explode then the Rhino hulk will still provide LOS blocking cover.

Is anyone of You using Rune Priest with something else, than Codex Powers or Divination/Prescience?
On the side note - it turned out to be a good Space Wolves 101 tutorial.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks everyone!

Fire warriors can glance a Rhino charge to wreckage. And you can only do the flat out trick if it doesn't move before they get out, so you have had to move full then flat outed it, or poped smoke the previous turn.

AV 14 works well against Tau.

Tau have only 1 str 9 weapon, and its firer (riptide) can take wounds for trying to fire it, 1 str 10 weapon, on hammerhead that isn't played too much in my Meta, and 1 melta weapon, with 18" range, so unless they deepstrike or charge to 9" it isn't very effective.

Melee they have the riptides smash, haywire grenades and onager gauntlet but if they are rellying on a melee to take down AV 14 you have already delivered your payload of terminators into their lines.

The best result I have had against tau is drop pods. Using wolf guard terminators with runepriest and 10 man grey hunter squads with plasmas or flamers. The alpha usually upsets their lines a fair bit, letting you divide and conquer, Or they have run off the board from failed morale from castling up to close to the edge.

You know, if your main problem is Tau, you might consider running something that specifically screws them and other armies geared toward dealing with mostly infantry. This especially bones the Necron Air Force:

3 Land Raiders and a few Pods each containing a Jaws Priest. Riptides loooooove JoWW, and Tau really don't have too many great answers to AV14. If you load one up with a reliably lethal assault unit, or do something like hide TWC *behind* the Land Raiders to block LOS to them, then even things like a Farsight bomb will have a hard time with you. The Bomb may have hit and run, but when you maul them in one round of H2H there's really not much they can do about it. Anything S8+ will maul the suits.

I don't know how well this would work, but against Tau, it'll probably irritate him:
HQ (800 points base)
Rune Priest, Thunderclap, Jaws
Rune Priest, Living Lightning, Jaws
Rune Priest, Storm Caller, Jaws
Rune Priest, Tempest's Wrath, Jaws
Rune Priest, Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Jaws
Rune Priest, Murderous Hurricane, Jaws
Rune Priest, Boltgun, Jaws, Psychic Power 2
Rune Priest, Boltgun, Jaws, Psychic Power 2

Heavy Support
Long Fangs Pack (65 pts base)
Long Fang, Squad Leader, Drop Pod

Drop the Pod and open a can of Jaws against his I2 models.

Use Rune priests. they fix all the shooting issues your can have up to four, since they can all have two powers and because of new rules you can have them un-upgraded with different equipment so you can have three base rune priests for 300 pts each with two of chain lightening, jaws of the world wolf and/or wolf spirits all very good shooting moves which with do alot of damage

I've had great fun with this squad:

8 Greyhunters; Mark, flamer, standard, pw (axe usually)
rune priest; runic, chooser, jaws/murderous hurricane
wolf guard; mark, comb flamer

So drop down, and just wipe the biggest infantry block off the board with rapid firing bolters, 3d6 st 2 hitting on 2+, and 2 flamers. Then hope for they charge you. lol hilarious.

for some reason people seem to think that squad can put that kind of hurt on every turn they're around, so there's always huge huge target priority against them. Oh, and if your worried about making them more survivable drop a GH and add term armour to WG

 Happyjew wrote:
I don't know how well this would work, but against Tau, it'll probably irritate him:
HQ (800 points base)
Rune Priest, Thunderclap, Jaws
Rune Priest, Living Lightning, Jaws
Rune Priest, Storm Caller, Jaws
Rune Priest, Tempest's Wrath, Jaws
Rune Priest, Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Jaws
Rune Priest, Murderous Hurricane, Jaws
Rune Priest, Boltgun, Jaws, Psychic Power 2
Rune Priest, Boltgun, Jaws, Psychic Power 2

Heavy Support
Long Fangs Pack (65 pts base)
Long Fang, Squad Leader, Drop Pod

Drop the Pod and open a can of Jaws against his I2 models.

And watch it go splat vs a riptide pizza thrown in your movement phase.

Seriously, riptides should have EWO and Ion Accelerators... they laugh at drop pod armies. Unless you go balls out and accept that the Greys are ablative wounds for a RP (which Space Marines... ablative wounds?)...?

I am thinking about retooling my lists to take flamers + plasma guns for free so I can maximize points for more toys. Then doing a 5 squad rhino rush army. Tau has a lot of guns, but not enough to pick up 50 marines before damage hits them. Taking a RP with mastery level 2 (can't wait for RP to be 65 pts base like ALL THE REST) and getting the divination power that ignores cover saves makes poor little Tau cry.

I have crippled Tau with SoB using Rhino rushes, scouting meltas, Exorcists (eat it, Riptides!), and Celestine and her burny ladies. Wolves can pull off the same shenanigans except instead of getting the Av13 D6 S8 AP1 missile platform, they get 5 missile launchers or ML + PC (lascannon is TOO MANY POINTS).

My thoughts. Oh, ally in guard, too. Squad of melta vets in Chimera + Vendetta + Command Squad with 4 flamers. Put the Command Squad in the Vendetta and DS them ASAP to melt any unit you wish. And I think you should know what to do with Melta Vets

The answer for Wolves is simple; Pods, Pods everywhere.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
I don't know how well this would work, but against Tau, it'll probably irritate him:
HQ (800 points base)
Rune Priest, Thunderclap, Jaws
Rune Priest, Living Lightning, Jaws
Rune Priest, Storm Caller, Jaws
Rune Priest, Tempest's Wrath, Jaws
Rune Priest, Fury of the Wolf Spirits, Jaws
Rune Priest, Murderous Hurricane, Jaws
Rune Priest, Boltgun, Jaws, Psychic Power 2
Rune Priest, Boltgun, Jaws, Psychic Power 2

Heavy Support
Long Fangs Pack (65 pts base)
Long Fang, Squad Leader, Drop Pod

Drop the Pod and open a can of Jaws against his I2 models.

And watch it go splat vs a riptide pizza thrown in your movement phase.

Seriously, riptides should have EWO and Ion Accelerators... they laugh at drop pod armies. Unless you go balls out and accept that the Greys are ablative wounds for a RP (which Space Marines... ablative wounds?)...?

Riptide does not laugh at drop pods, if the squad disembarks and hugs a tau unit, it's physically impossible to place the large blast without tagging Tau models. And if space wolves get to shoot first, chances are those markerlights are going away

 Continuity wrote:

Riptide does not laugh at drop pods, if the squad disembarks and hugs a tau unit, it's physically impossible to place the large blast without tagging Tau models. And if space wolves get to shoot first, chances are those markerlights are going away

I like that.

Unless you scatter.

And then your unit goes splat.



You also forget broadsides with EWO. That much S7/S5 hammering home will thin out a GH squad. I want a wolf pod army, but I need to buy 6 more pods to make it happen.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Continuity wrote:

Riptide does not laugh at drop pods, if the squad disembarks and hugs a tau unit, it's physically impossible to place the large blast without tagging Tau models. And if space wolves get to shoot first, chances are those markerlights are going away

I like that.

Unless you scatter.

And then your unit goes splat.



You also forget broadsides with EWO. That much S7/S5 hammering home will thin out a GH squad. I want a wolf pod army, but I need to buy 6 more pods to make it happen.

I really thought Broadsides/Riptides with EWO would hard counter SW Pod lists. The ATC proved me wrong. 7-9 pod Wolf Armies were having a field day with Tau (several teams brought them as their anti-Tau). Sure, a bunch of Wolves die in the movement phase. But the alpha strike still happens, and multiple JoTWW lines cross over Broadsides and Riptides. Then it's just mop up.