Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Heard that the wording for Entropic Strike means that any hits take away armour, not any wounds. That true? Because it would really change up the mathammer, if only because that tac squad is now naked.

The particle casters profile is 12" Str6 Ap5 pistol.

succesful hits do indeed cause the tests.

It reads "for each hit a vehicle suffers from a weapon or model with this special rule, roll a d6. For each result of a 4+, it immediately loses 1 point of armor value from all facings.

Anvildude wrote:Heard that the wording for Entropic Strike means that any hits take away armour, not any wounds. That true? Because it would really change up the mathammer, if only because that tac squad is now naked.

I believe, but do not quote me on this, that it is "hits" against vehicles, and "unsaved wounds" against non-vehicles.

Xca|iber wrote:

Anvildude wrote:Heard that the wording for Entropic Strike means that any hits take away armour, not any wounds. That true? Because it would really change up the mathammer, if only because that tac squad is now naked.

I believe, but do not quote me on this, that it is "hits" against vehicles, and "unsaved wounds" against non-vehicles.

You are correct.

Clunky is exactly my feeling on the whole codex.

I am underwhelmed in the extreme.

2 overlords, relentless with rez orbs, 2x 10 necron immortals with blasters costs more points and is not as good as 3rd ed codex.

I am considering have 2 courts of 3 crypteks of destruction (str 8, AP2, ass 1) 36" range for 125 each squad, also including a solar orb in each.

As to where this army stands in tourny play, its better than it used to be, but not by heaps. Lower end of middle pack I'd say.

Are they keeping these for 2nd wave release?
Anyone how long before Dark Eldars got theirs? and battalion?

Triarch Stalkers
Tomb Blade
Doom/Night Scyth
Illuminor Szeras

LunaHound wrote:Are they keeping these for 2nd wave release?
Anyone how long before Dark Eldars got theirs? and battalion?

Triarch Stalkers
Tomb Blade
Doom/Night Scyth
Illuminor Szeras

I bet they don't make an Illuminor Szeras. I have no info to back this up, just my personal opinion. If you take a Cryptek and a Triarch Stalker kit, then you'll have Illuminor.

Sorry if it's already been answered, but what is the point cost of the Nightscythe?

Now that I have my codex in-hand, some things I've noticed:

-At 45 pts per, Sword/Shield Lychguard are pretty nice, especially if accompanied by Obyron and a Res Orb Lord for a big nasty deathstar unit.

- 267 points for a 9 warrior/1 lance cryptek ark seems excessive but could prove to be great if the rapidfire rules turn out as rumored in 6E. 3 units of that screened by scarabs could prove to be difficult to deal with.

- A destroyer lord accompanying a full wraith unit will prove to be a nasty force to be reckoned with, especially in armies that abuse night-fight shenanigans. For only about 300 points you get a lot of melee force and maneuverability.

- Why you would ever go for a non-gauss cannon on the CCB is beyond me.

- A CCB Overlord with a scythe seems to be the no-brainer HQ choice for this army. His abilities can't be ignored, and he will not likely go down easily. He might not make his points back directly (although it's certainly possible!) but he will draw an absurd amount of fire.

- Overall this army seems incredibly balanced, and is absolutely unique.

- Tesla weapons plus stalkers might be fun, considering how cheap Immortals are.

Amanax wrote:Sorry if it's already been answered, but what is the point cost of the Nightscythe?

10 pts. more than a Tac Squad

Amanax wrote:Sorry if it's already been answered, but what is the point cost of the Nightscythe?

Only 100! Pleasant surprise, but as mentioned if it blows up its contents get placed back in reserve. It's going to draw a LOT of fire, but AV11 with a 4+ save gives it a shot at surviving the turn. At the very least, your opponents won't be shooting at anything else.

Ostrakon wrote:

Amanax wrote:Sorry if it's already been answered, but what is the point cost of the Nightscythe?

Only 100! Pleasant surprise, but as mentioned if it blows up its contents get placed back in reserve. It's going to draw a LOT of fire, but AV11 with a 4+ save gives it a shot at surviving the turn. At the very least, your opponents won't be shooting at anything else.

My thoughts exactly. And I even though I don't enjoy the fact that they go into reserve, taking Orikan as I was planning might work to help with that drawback if he did end up with his once per game reserve re-roll

Amanax wrote:Sorry if it's already been answered, but what is the point cost of the Nightscythe?

Not sure if we are allowed to post directly but its 1/3 rd of Spartaaaaaaaaa

Ostrakon wrote:
*snip*

I think armies that can put a lot of models on the table (Orks, in particular) are going to give Necrons trouble. I also think IG is sitting pretty just the way they were. I think Necrons will probably shine against MSU armies, but I think that they were going to be slower than some people realize. If you want to use all that weaponry, you'll have to move slowly to do so. But, they have some nasty things that move quickly. This can be a double-edged sword: it can present your opponent with a lot to deal with while the rest of your forces arrive (ideal) or it can split your forces and allow your enemy to deal with what he wants at his leisure (worst case). Of course, there will be a median found, but I'm interested to see how steep the learning curve is.

That's where Death Rays come in. The Doomscythe (or whatever it's called) and it's Death Ray can basically wipe entire hordes out.

Anvildude wrote:That's where Death Rays come in. The Doomscythe (or whatever it's called) and it's Death Ray can basically wipe entire hordes out.

The Death Ray works just like Jaws of the World Wolf. It hits models that touch the line. Here is the wording:

"Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

If your line moves through a mob of Ork Boyz, but only goes over 6 of them, only 6 take hits.

Not only that, but you have to be within 12" of the mob to use the Death Ray. So, it's probably the last thing the Doomscythe will do.

Edit: Technically, you wouldn't have to be within 12" of the unit you want to hit, but the line starts 12" from the Doomscythe and then ends 3D6" away, so if you want an accurate line (or if you want to get the most effect), you'll probably want to be as close to 12" away as you can.

You know, I think you're the first person to read it that way? At least that I've heard. Everyone I've spoken to read it as

"Every unit ... underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line"

In other words, if even a single model in a unit of 10 is under the line, the unit takes 10 hits.

Well a big help for the nightscythe is that you can walk any non-vehicle out of the monoliths portal anywhere on the table or in reserves. It seems like how it reads it doesn't say they need to have passed reserve roles to walk out the portal. At least that is how the paragraph reads to me.

So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

puma713 wrote:

Anvildude wrote:That's where Death Rays come in. The Doomscythe (or whatever it's called) and it's Death Ray can basically wipe entire hordes out.

The Death Ray works just like Jaws of the World Wolf. It hits models that touch the line. Here is the wording:

"Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line."

If your line moves through a mob of Ork Boyz, but only goes over 6 of them, only 6 take hits.

Not only that, but you have to be within 12" of the mob to use the Death Ray. So, it's probably the last thing the Doomscythe will do.

I agree that that's most likely how its supposed to work. I think the problem that people are having is with the "in the unit" wording.

If they had just said "Every unit (friendly or enemy) underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models underneath the line" then it would have been fine. The way its worded is awkward... does it mean hits the number of models under the line or that if the line passes over models in the unit, it hits equal to the number of models in the unit.

I think its the former, as the latter would be insanely good. Whole mobs of boyz, guard blob squads, etc could be virtually wiped out in a single shot otherwise.

Anvildude wrote:You know, I think you're the first person to read it that way? At least that I've heard. Everyone I've spoken to read it as

"Every unit ... underneath the line suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit underneath the line"

In other words, if even a single model in a unit of 10 is under the line, the unit takes 10 hits.

That would mean that they repeated the "underneath the line" at the beginning of the clause and the at the end of the clause for no reason. That is redundant. If that were correct, it would read like:

"Anything underneath the line suffers hits underneath the line."

That is improper grammar.

Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out...to excited to read pages 180-185, and I'm not done reading the entire codex yet (you understand I assume).

Potential good news. I'm reading the wording of the Solar Pulse and it looks like Imotek + solar pulse might actually work.

Solar pulse (pg. 84) specifically says "if the Night Fighting rules are in effect, they cease to apply until the end of the turn"

The solar pulse doesn't end night fighting. It just lets you ignore them for your turn when used in this fashion.

On the other side of this, Imotek's Lord of the Storm rule (pg. 55) specifically uses the term "game turn" to describe how he interacts with the end and continuation of Night Fighting rules in play.

So, the Game Turn begins.
Necron turn begins and you use the solar pulse to dis-apply NFing until the end of the turn.
Necron movement phase.
Necron shooting phase begins.
You blow stuff up gud.
Necron assault phase.
Necron turn ends.
Solar pulse effect ends and Night Fighting once again applies as normal.
Other player's turn.
End of Game Turn.
Imotekh's player can now choose to attempt to extend night fighting or not.

If you reversed the player's turns, it won't make a difference as the BGB clearly states that one game turn is made up of two or more player turns that occur over the course of a single game turn.

Subsequently, Lord of the Storm says that lightning strikes occur "if the Night Fighting rule is in play".
A Solar Pulse simply makes them not "apply" to your turn. It in no way states that the solar pulse removes the night fighting rules from play.

So...in-play. Just not applicable for the turn.

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

?

It only lightning's when it is Night Fighting and Solar Pulse stops the Night Fighting.

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

Under Imotekh's entry, its says the lightning storm occurs while night fighting rules are in place. If you light up your turn, the night fighting rules (temporarily) are gone.

You can't lightning strike if you solar pulse, but you can keep the night fighting rules going after solar pulsing (there was a rumour a while back saying that once you used a pulse, Imotekh's night-fighting was gone for good).

Tyr wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

Under Imotekh's entry, its says the lightning storm occurs while night fighting rules are in place. If you light up your turn, the night fighting rules (temporarily) are gone.

You can't lightning strike if you solar pulse, but you can keep the night fighting rules going after solar pulsing (there was a rumour a while back saying that once you used a pulse, Imotekh's night-fighting was gone for good).

I disagree. This is tricky because Imotekh's rules say that you may "keep the Night Fighting rules in play". Well, if you've stopped the Night Fighting rules with a Solar Pulse, the Night Fighting rules are no longer "in play" and so may not be "kept in play".

Edit: Just saw Arandmoor's post. I still disagree, however. The Solar Pulse says "Night Fighting rules cease to apply." That means you're not using the Night Fighting "rules". . .you're not applying them. If they FAQ it, I have a feeling they'll go with the less advantageous point-of-view.

Mustakha the Undying wrote:

tiekwando wrote:My question is, how is the C'tan entropic stike upgrade worded. Does it only effect their close combat attacks, as I imagine it would, or can it effect their ranged attacks as well. If that were the case it would make the high shot low strength ranged upgrade well worth it. IIRC 8 s4 shots that were entropic would knock about 3 armor off. That would make any other shooting much more effective, plus if your shooting at rhinos AV8 is relatively easy to pen even with s4 (well the same as missiles at av12 anyways).

Close combat attacks only.

Actually that's not true at all.

The wording for Entropic strike actually specifies that it affects any hit from a MODEL with this ability.

So I DO think that a C'Tan who takes Entropic Strike would also gain that ability with whatever way he is able to hit enemy models, including ranged attacks!


Good thought, tiekwando!

The wraith are a good counter for that with the whips. Kind of nice to strike first with I2. And the lords and cryptics are pretty good if ya kit them out right.

puma713 wrote:

Tyr wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

Under Imotekh's entry, its says the lightning storm occurs while night fighting rules are in place. If you light up your turn, the night fighting rules (temporarily) are gone.

You can't lightning strike if you solar pulse, but you can keep the night fighting rules going after solar pulsing (there was a rumour a while back saying that once you used a pulse, Imotekh's night-fighting was gone for good).

I disagree. This is tricky because Imotekh's rules say that you may "keep the Night Fighting rules in play". Well, if you've stopped the Night Fighting rules with a Solar Pulse, the Night Fighting rules are no longer "in play" and so may not be "kept in play".

Edit: Just saw Arandmoor's post. Good points.

Except the Solar Pulse doesn't remove Night Fighting from play. It just says they cease to apply for a turn.

So, not applying, but still in play.

Now, if you induced night fighting by using a solar pulse that wouldn't activate his lightning strikes even if you used the pulse in your turn and suffered through all the sighting difficulties because while it would cause them to apply, Night Fighting would not be "in play".

IMO, it's a nit-pick so all is not well, but we've got a very strong case to have our cake and eat it too.

Will require FAQing IMO.

puma713 wrote:

Tyr wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:So nothing in the book says that a solar pulse stops the lightning storm from imotekh.

Under Imotekh's entry, its says the lightning storm occurs while night fighting rules are in place. If you light up your turn, the night fighting rules (temporarily) are gone.

You can't lightning strike if you solar pulse, but you can keep the night fighting rules going after solar pulsing (there was a rumour a while back saying that once you used a pulse, Imotekh's night-fighting was gone for good).

I disagree. This is tricky because Imotekh's rules say that you may "keep the Night Fighting rules in play". Well, if you've stopped the Night Fighting rules with a Solar Pulse, the Night Fighting rules are no longer "in play" and so may not be "kept in play".

Edit: Just saw Arandmoor's post. Good points.

I do believe the solar flare rules say nothing about ending nightfighting, so much as they suspend the application of its rules for a player turn. It does specifically say until the end of the turn.

In any case, you may be absolutely right that horde armies are going to give us trouble. I suspect IG will roll right over us. On the other hand, I'm liking our odds against Ork hordes and tyranids, only because there is precious little they can do to stop our vehicles. AV13 means none of their shooting can reasonably scratch it, and we appear to be mobile enough to dance around CC or at least mire them in scarab land.

yakface wrote:

Mustakha the Undying wrote:

tiekwando wrote:My question is, how is the C'tan entropic stike upgrade worded. Does it only effect their close combat attacks, as I imagine it would, or can it effect their ranged attacks as well. If that were the case it would make the high shot low strength ranged upgrade well worth it. IIRC 8 s4 shots that were entropic would knock about 3 armor off. That would make any other shooting much more effective, plus if your shooting at rhinos AV8 is relatively easy to pen even with s4 (well the same as missiles at av12 anyways).

Close combat attacks only.

Actually that's not true at all.

The wording for Entropic strike actually specifies that it affects any hit from a MODEL with this ability.

So I DO think that a C'Tan who takes Entropic Strike would also gain that ability with whatever way he is able to hit enemy models, including ranged attacks!


Good thought, tiekwando!

Codex very clearly says close combat attacks only.

Would've been great otherwise though!