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I'm torn between optimism on one hand and my 'meh' impression from the Fyreslayer changes on the other. It seems like these guys know their stuff and are referencing feedback, but at the same time the response to an under performing faction seems to have been a blanket decrease on everything, a tactic that could be counterproductive if applied elsewhere. Yet the tomb kings were addressed differently, but somehow skeleton chariots weren't included when they are in obvious need of an increase...

Not sure what to expect.


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Bottle! I summon your optimism!

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'm torn between optimism on one hand and my 'meh' impression from the Fyreslayer changes on the other. It seems like these guys know their stuff and are referencing feedback, but at the same time the response to an under performing faction seems to have been a blanket decrease on everything, a tactic that could be counterproductive if applied elsewhere. Yet the tomb kings were addressed differently, but somehow skeleton chariots weren't included when they are in obvious need of an increase...

Not sure what to expect.


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Bottle! I summon your optimism!

Haha, well I think we need to focus on the experimental tagline of these new rules and that they will be running at the biggest ever AoS event (the SCGT 2017) and thus the biggest ever play testing sample group in AoS. No doubt the Fyreslayer performance and Tomb King performance is going to be closely monitored and hopefully tweaked further. (Not to mention the filthmeister himself, Kraggi).

I am against the compendium units being raised in cost to make them noncompetitive. I would rather they disallowed compendium from tournaments instead and kept them well pointed for friendly matched play games. Saying that, although the Tomb king points increases seem steep, I have seen someone post a comparison of the Necropolis Knights vs Blood Knights and they still come out at a better deal so I think these adjustments are probably necessary. I've made it known before that I trust Russ Veal's pointing, and I think him winning the masters with the Tomb Kings helped nip them in the bud before they dominated the meta from now till GHB II.

The chariots got left out simply because they weren't in the lists smashing up the UK scene. It was the Necropolis Knights. I think TK players now have a good choice between the two rather than the Snakes being the go to choice as they were so good you had to try and cram as much of them in the list as possible.

Considering that Warrior Brotherhood and Skybourne Slayers seem to be made redundant with the new Stormcast book (from the battlereport it looks like they have an army wide deepstrike rule to arrive from the sky on a 3+). I think we are going to be in for a very open meta in the run up for the GHBII.

I bought some more Fyreslayers after the points drop to test them out in my Order army! I really hope they can win SCGT2017!


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Oh, there is a whole Warhammer Community article on the update:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/02/09/generals-handbook-ii-behind-the-scenes/

People have been looking at the pictures and found they are working on tweaking the scenarios as well as adjusting the points!

 Bottle wrote:
I've made it known before that I trust Russ Veal's pointing, and I think him winning the masters with the Tomb Kings helped nip them in the bud before they dominated the meta from now till GHB II.

Listening to the Facehammer podcasts from before and after the Master's was pretty entertaining. They debated whether Russ should take Tomb Kings since he's helping with design and it might look bad to outsiders. But he did what he promised and dominated with TK to prove a point.

 Clanan wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
I've made it known before that I trust Russ Veal's pointing, and I think him winning the masters with the Tomb Kings helped nip them in the bud before they dominated the meta from now till GHB II.

Listening to the Facehammer podcasts from before and after the Master's was pretty entertaining. They debated whether Russ should take Tomb Kings since he's helping with design and it might look bad to outsiders. But he did what he promised and dominated with TK to prove a point.

Agreed! Facehammer is by far my favourite AoS podcast. Not only can it be hilarious, but they also have the tactical skills (and painting skills) to really know what they are talking about.

OK that makes me feel better, thanks!

 Bottle wrote:
Nice to see price reductions and nice to see Fyreslayer point reductions!

I hope when the Duardin get redone they have a super battletome that combines Fyreslayers and all the kits get price reductions too. £40 for a box of Longbeards, Ironbreakers or Vulkite Beserkers all seems good to me!

Still waiting for a Fyreslayers SC box. Hopefully we'll get one this year.

Here's hoping!

Tyel wrote:

 Vermis wrote:
'Cos people can go on about GW's two being 'too complex to balance'; but when you've got models that no-one will take because they're plain-as-your-nose not good enough, or battalions that are always taken because they're obviously better than anything else, that's not 'too complex', that's sheer laziness, incompetence, or apathy. And that's just applying Hanlon's razor to the situation.

Moving into an organic rulebook is a pretty major step for GW. It implies some care about the game as a game rather than a near complete indifference to how people use their miniatures which has been the case for at least the last decade.

Ultimately GW will never get it right first time because they do not have the same play testing ability as the wider community. Why they get it so wrong (some units are obviously terrible/really good) is more of a mystery but there you go.

I guess you could say "just hire more people" - but ultimately a small team would take months to play as many games as a well attended tournament.

The only solution is to look at tournament results - which provide you hundreds and thousands of games worth of data - and consider balancing from there.

I'm not sure it's that cut and dry because the 9th age is all about tournament balance first and foremost with the community in mind and they still end up making alot of mistakes and angering the community (if just not listening to it at all in some cases...)

Davor wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
They could add a section about playing Battles in the Old World to the Book.

You can do that now. Why does GW need to hold our hands and tell us how to play games? Nothing is stopping anyone from playing in the Old World.

Indeed and some fans go beyond the call of duty with that in mind.

http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/698-battletome-the-end-times-home-thread/

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
OK that makes me feel better, thanks!

It pays off to take your daily bottle of optimism.

New Zealand is up!

What do people think of the rules?
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-Vanguard-Hunters-en.pdf

Capability wise they are basic liberators in meelee with weaker versions of the judicators' gear all together. A truly generalist force with a good mobility ability, with the capability of moving 5+d6 and still shoot their somewhat decent attacks.

6.5/10 a solid new unit, though not game-breaking. Will do OK for removal of low-tier backfield units.

I can't seem to access the gryph hound warscroll, says not found like its a dead link. The vanguard hunters seem pretty cool, straightforward rules ..would it be better to give them the handaxe or saber though? I'm new to the game/rules but to me the difference seems negligible.

I really like these models though, I guess next week we get the bird riders.

"Boltstorm Pistol"

GW isn't even trying to be subtle with their Land Marines.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
"Boltstorm Pistol"

GW isn't even trying to be subtle with their Land Marines.

Okay, have a medal here for being the first to re-repeat that trite comment.


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 Thargrim wrote:
I can't seem to access the gryph hound warscroll, says not found like its a dead link. The vanguard hunters seem pretty cool, straightforward rules ..would it be better to give them the handaxe or saber though? I'm new to the game/rules but to me the difference seems negligibel.

I really like these models though, I guess next week we get the bird riders.

If you're setting them as a rear-guard strike force, it's indifferent. If you have them close to a lord celestant or the like, give them the axes: they'll even the to-hit rolls and have better to wound rolls (which are harder to buff).

Solid. It'll be interesting to see their point costs. They aren't much different than Prosecutors with some tweaks and less movement. I'm interested to see their point costs.

Always buff the 4+ roll.
3+/3+ is about 4% better than 2+/4+ or 4+/2+.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Solid. It'll be interesting to see their point costs. They aren't much different than Prosecutors with some tweaks and less movement. I'm interested to see their point costs.

They don't really need that much mobility, though, since the compass will let you close in fairly fast to the enemy back-lines.


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We do know the following prayers:

-God-King's aspect: enemies within 12'' of the priest add two to battleshock. Rolls of one when deciding wether the prayer activates or not result in a mortal wound.
-Abjuration: on a roll of 2+ you can unbind a spell per enemy phase until your next hero phase (so kind of decent if double turning enemy).
-Bless weapons: on a roll of something (blocked) you can make a unit get extra attacks for each roll of 6 they make more attacks. Devastating on concussors if you ask me.
-Divine light 3+ to trigger. If you target enemy units, you re-roll hits of 1. If you target ally units, enemy re-roll hits of 6.

The hunters look solid to me, looks like they will perform exactly like I'd imagine stormcast light/skirmish infantry to do. They have a solid role as outflankers and objective campers too, despite the similar statline. And unlike prosecutors they won't be super expensive for the wound count.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
"Boltstorm Pistol"

GW isn't even trying to be subtle with their Land Marines.

It actually fits better than with their archers as crossbow actually shoot bolts.

Though I guess "arrowstorm" doesn't sound as good and already belongs to Bretonnia.

Can't wait to get some of these bad boys and their bad birds.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The hunters look solid to me, looks like they will perform exactly like I'd imagine stormcast light/skirmish infantry to do. They have a solid role as outflankers and objective campers too, despite the similar statline. And unlike prosecutors they won't be super expensive for the wound count.

Depends on points honestly, they're solid but a little too 'jack of all trades' to justify taking over judicators and very similar in power to liberators.


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Lord Kragan wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Solid. It'll be interesting to see their point costs. They aren't much different than Prosecutors with some tweaks and less movement. I'm interested to see their point costs.

They don't really need that much mobility, though, since the compass will let you close in fairly fast to the enemy back-lines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We do know the following prayers:

-God-King's aspect: enemies within 12'' of the priest add two to battleshock. Rolls of one when deciding wether the prayer activates or not result in a mortal wound.
-Abjuration: on a roll of 2+ you can unbind a spell per enemy phase until your next hero phase (so kind of decent if double turning enemy).
-Bless weapons: on a roll of something (blocked) you can make a unit get extra attacks for each roll of 6 they make more attacks. Devastating on concussors if you ask me.
-Divine light 3+ to trigger. If you target enemy units, you re-roll hits of 1. If you target ally units, enemy re-roll hits of 6.

The other 2 are movement and battleshock based judging by what I could see. Looks like the were rather reserved this release tbh.

I see a bunch of minis on pre-order, some of which I recognise already.

What has been reboxed, and have any prices gone up?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I see a bunch of minis on pre-order, some of which I recognise already.

What has been reboxed, and have any prices gone up?

Prosecutors have been reboxed from 3 to 6.
Liberators have been reboxed from 5 to 10.
Judicators have been reboxed from 5 to 10.

They've all gone up something like $10-$12 USD in price, from what I remember. The prices weren't listed in the February WD.
Liberators and Judicators were both $50 for 5, Prosecutors were $60 or so for 3.

Dollar per model US dropped around 35% on the reboxes which is great.

I'll probably be grabbing the book tomorrow since it comes for free with the prayer cards (don't need them but want them).

I'm excited to see where they went with the Stormcast now that they are all in once book.

So why are all the other Sigmarine things (the mono-pose Draegon™, the smaller dragon things, and so on) appeared on pre-order if they haven't changed?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So why are all the other Sigmarine things (the mono-pose Draegon™, the smaller dragon things, and so on) appeared on pre-order if they haven't changed?

I was wondering the same thing as the price, the contents, and the box art all look the same. Maybe the warscrolls have changed, since they come in the box.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So why are all the other Sigmarine things (the mono-pose Draegon™, the smaller dragon things, and so on) appeared on pre-order if they haven't changed?

Don't quote me on this, but I think it might be the box changed.

I think they've been labeled "Stormcast Extremis" before.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So why are all the other Sigmarine things (the mono-pose Draegon™, the smaller dragon things, and so on) appeared on pre-order if they haven't changed?

Don't quote me on this, but I think it might be the box changed.

I think they've been labeled "Stormcast Extremis" before.

They were labelled as thus in the App.

ERJAK wrote:

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Lord Kragan wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Solid. It'll be interesting to see their point costs. They aren't much different than Prosecutors with some tweaks and less movement. I'm interested to see their point costs.

They don't really need that much mobility, though, since the compass will let you close in fairly fast to the enemy back-lines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We do know the following prayers:

-God-King's aspect: enemies within 12'' of the priest add two to battleshock. Rolls of one when deciding wether the prayer activates or not result in a mortal wound.
-Abjuration: on a roll of 2+ you can unbind a spell per enemy phase until your next hero phase (so kind of decent if double turning enemy).
-Bless weapons: on a roll of something (blocked) you can make a unit get extra attacks for each roll of 6 they make more attacks. Devastating on concussors if you ask me.
-Divine light 3+ to trigger. If you target enemy units, you re-roll hits of 1. If you target ally units, enemy re-roll hits of 6.

The other 2 are movement and battleshock based judging by what I could see. Looks like the were rather reserved this release tbh.

To be honest those are prayers, prayers tend to be weaker on average then spells but easier to cast and can't really be unbound.

The main bulk of this battletome's content will be battalions, I suspect. Stormcast have a huge amount of battalions.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The main bulk of this battletome's content will be battalions, I suspect. Stormcast have a huge amount of battalions.

It's 29 batallions in the book and the stormcast currently have 29 total, but with the changes to lightning strike I wouldn't be surprised if most of them were retooled significantly. Skyborne slayers seems kind of sill when you can deepstrike already.

 Thargrim wrote:
I can't seem to access the gryph hound warscroll, says not found like its a dead link.

They borked the link when they posted it:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-Gryph-Hounds-en.pdf

ERJAK wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The main bulk of this battletome's content will be battalions, I suspect. Stormcast have a huge amount of battalions.

It's 29 batallions in the book and the stormcast currently have 29 total, but with the changes to lightning strike I wouldn't be surprised if most of them were retooled significantly. Skyborne slayers seems kind of sill when you can deepstrike already.

29 would be including narrative battalions from the campaign books, so that many in the battletome suggests a whole bunch of new ones.