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I like the new chapter master, but i don't know if to take him. I am thinking of running a TH/SS unit in a LR, and am thinking of running the new CM with the Burning Blade, Armor Indomitus, and the Shield Eternal. He will be a force to be reckoned with, but for his points, I don't know if a TDA Librarian with a SS & MLvl 2 is just as good for much cheaper. And, frankly, i'm not sure if to take this expensive setup, since I'm spending a 1/3 of my total points in 7-8 models. Any advise?

Reread the chapter relics sections on which/how many each character can take.

BronzeJon wrote:
Reread the chapter relics sections on which/how many each character can take.

Read it, there's no restriction of how many one guy can take, just there can't be two in the same army

Regardless, CMs seem good now, given that you can get some cheap 2+ CC units.

I'm pretty sure that each character can only take one as the entry says that they may replace a weapon with one relic.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
I'm pretty sure that each character can only take one as the entry says that they may replace a weapon with one relic.

That reminds me of this conversation to which i follow the interpretation of trade a weapon for a relic on a weapon by weapon basis ( like trading the chainsword for a melee weapon, and trading the bolt pistol). Semantics aside, it seems that a fully kited out CM might be like a "the works" CSM DP (DoT, BM, Wings, PA): it is super killy, but it racks up points quickly, and that might prevent me from trying to plug a hole in my list elsewhere.

All I'm asking is advise, as a CM with a proper kit in TH/SS squad will wreck face, but that will cost lots of points, and a SS Librarian with TDA and Epist. costs much less, while only being slightly less effective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And my list in question looks something like this:

So Could use a counter assault unit, preferably one that can utilize my CM/Libby. The CM is more killy, and has a pie-plate, yet the Libby is cheaper and has psychic powers.

I don't see why you would want the armour, it's expensive just to give him relentless. At most I would give him the shield and sword with either termi armor or just artificer armor.

Artificer armor will suffice. But totally go for it. it looks like he will be ridiculously fun.

I like the new Chapter Master.

I've been kitting mine with Artificer Armor, Shield Eternal, Thunderhammer (master crafted through Salamanders CT) and an Auspex.

Runs about 235 points. Adding some Honor Guard seems to really beef up the unit. He can tank wounds for the Honor Guard until they get into CC where they wipe just about anything.

The ability to essentially create Lysander for any army isn't something to shake a stick at.

I also saw in another thread that the Chapter Master can now use Orbital Bombardment after moving.....I didn't play it that way in my last game, but if it's true, can someone point out what changed?

 NickTheButcher wrote:
I also saw in another thread that the Chapter Master can now use Orbital Bombardment after moving.....I didn't play it that way in my last game, but if it's true, can someone point out what changed?

They can if they are relentless (i.e., on a bike or in Terminator armour).

To clarify, from another post about the relics.

It reads

A model can replace one weapon (note it says one weapon, not both) with one of the following.

and

If you just look across the page too you have the regular weapons ranged, melee all say the same

A model can replace his bolt pistol and/ or melee weapon with one of the following



Compared to the relic which says

A model can replace one weapon with one of the following.


The nail in the coffin of being able to run more then one relic right there for me. If they had intended it to be like that they would have used the same wording used for Ranged weapons and melee weapons.

Basically, there are three reasons to take the Chapter Master over a Captain:

1) the additional Wound (you make the most out of this by taking AA and the EW shield plus possibly a bike).
2) Orbital Bombardment (which isn't terribly useful on a close combat character unless you make him Relentless).
3) Honour Guard.

You'll already know if you want to take the character for these possibilities, but for the first two, it will be expensive. While Honour Guard are relatively cheap it's still quite a few points by the time you work in some basic kit for the Chapter Master as well.

To sum up - if you want anything other than the 3 options above, just go for the Captain. It'll be cheaper.

He has an additional attack as well.

I just have to chime in here on the one or more relic question here. There is a serious reading comprehension mistakes being made by what seems like half the community. "may replace one weapon with one of the following" means you can replace a bolt pistol with a relic and a power sword with a relic, you are not allowed to replace the bolt pistol with 2 relics. The rule limits the amount of relics you can replace for one weapon, it does nothing to limit the amount of times you can do this. If the rule were ment to limit each character to one relic, it would have to read "you may replace only one weapon with one of the following" or "may replace one weapon with only one of the following". There is nothing in the RAW that limits you to taking the action once, hence there is no limit and you can add multiple relics onto a character.

Of course at that point you are looking likely at a 300 pt+ model that only has 4 wounds a 3++ and I5. Daemon princes will still smoke you, abaddon will smoke you, swarmlord will smoke you. a juggernaught lord with the axe of blind fury will go toe to toe with you ect.

It would be better to just assume that the question is up in the air. Even if you come to a definite conclusion, your opponent you meet at your store might not. Whoever feels like fighting on this topic might want to have a look at YMDC to gather the arguments of both sides.

This thread could stick to discussing the Chapter Master, as I'm curious about the decree whether he is worth it or not. I highly doubt that being able to take two or three relics is the issue here.

Bike, Power fist, artificer armor and EW storm shield is all you really need. Still really expensive tho.

Probably want to spend those 5 points extra on a TH to get Concussive, in case he has to fight an MC or similar tough targets.

Bike, Eternal Shield, Thunderhammer, Artificer Armor.

If you are going for fluff, I think the CM is well worth his points. You can make your own hero and give him whatever weapon options you want. I myself like the Artificier Armour, Thunder Hammer, and Shield Eternal. This makes him roughly the cost of Lysander plus a few points. Fluff wise, its great, in terms of maxing out points for the same thing, NOT so great.

Lysander is cheaper than my custom hero and adds a few toppings with his special rules. He swings better with his Hammer (master crafted) and has all the goodies I gave my custom hero. Downside is Termi-armour vs. AA.

Basically what you are doing is giving up the re-roll on the hits for Orbital Bombardment and paying more in points for it. Again it is all player preference. Personally, I think Lysander is a better choice by points, but you lose the customization feel of a home made hero.

There are also a ton of ways to save points here as well. IE taking an IH captain (with all the same upgrades) and benefiting from IWND.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Probably want to spend those 5 points extra on a TH to get Concussive, in case he has to fight an MC or similar tough targets.

5 points for concussive is actually really reasonable and at the points you are paying already this small increase shouldn't matter that much.

 ace101 wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
I'm pretty sure that each character can only take one as the entry says that they may replace a weapon with one relic.

That reminds me of this conversation to which i follow the interpretation of trade a weapon for a relic on a weapon by weapon basis ( like trading the chainsword for a melee weapon, and trading the bolt pistol).

Here is the thing, I didn't post this in the You Make the Call Thread, but in Tactics its different. Even assuming you 100% *can* take the Shield Eternal and the Burning Blade, you should not because it is an awful combination for a variety of reasons.
1) Burning Blade is a one handed weapon, when you pair it with the Shield Eternal instead of a Pistol you LOSE the 2ccw attack, effectively meaning that you will have the same number of attacks as a model with a Thunder Hammer.
2) Burning Blade is "only" s7. Yes s7 is nice, and yes it wounds most things pretty easily, but you lose out on the ability to instant kill t4 that you gain with the Power Fist or Thunder Hammer. Instant Death Thresholds are important.
3) Shield Eternal makes the chapter master really beefy. 4 wounds, 3++ and EW. Are you really worried that you will not live long enough to swing a power fist? You can even grab him a bike and artificer armour for t5 2+/3++ EW.

I'm not saying that the Biting Blade is a bad weapon. s7 ap2 at initiative is always useful. What I am saying is that if you want to make the most out of the Burning Blade you want a Bolt Pistol for that extra attack. When you add in the durability of the Shield Eternal going for the more conservative s8 ap2 Unwieldy will be a better choice every time.

Pony_law wrote:
I just have to chime in here on the one or more relic question here. There is a serious reading comprehension mistakes being made by what seems like half the community. "may replace one weapon with one of the following" means you can replace a bolt pistol with a relic and a power sword with a relic, you are not allowed to replace the bolt pistol with 2 relics. The rule limits the amount of relics you can replace for one weapon, it does nothing to limit the amount of times you can do this. If the rule were ment to limit each character to one relic, it would have to read "you may replace only one weapon with one of the following" or "may replace one weapon with only one of the following". There is nothing in the RAW that limits you to taking the action once, hence there is no limit and you can add multiple relics onto a character.

Of course at that point you are looking likely at a 300 pt+ model that only has 4 wounds a 3++ and I5. Daemon princes will still smoke you, abaddon will smoke you, swarmlord will smoke you. a juggernaught lord with the axe of blind fury will go toe to toe with you ect.

I think you're mistaken, though I can only say the same thing so many times.

You replace one weapon for one relic.

you replace another one weapon for one relic.

Congratulations you have now replaced 2 weapons for 2 relics and have broken the rule.

In regards to your wording argument

If you just look across the page too you have the regular weapons ranged, melee all say the same

A model can replace his bolt pistol and/ or melee weapon with one of the following



Compared to the relic which says

A model can replace one weapon with one of the following.

For weapons / wargear where you are allowed to make the one for one swap more then once, it actually tells you that you can do so with the wording I quoted above taken directly from the codex, both quotations taken directly from the very same page in the book.

The only problem with the Chapter Master is that he gets expensive fast.

What kind of point levels are people taking him at?

 Fezman wrote:
The only problem with the Chapter Master is that he gets expensive fast.

What kind of point levels are people taking him at?

I would use a CM at anything above 1250, Captain below that.

I've been running a CM on bike with burning blade and/or a CM with relic armor and LC/PF. He's very killy in melee.

 juraigamer wrote:
I've been running a CM on bike with burning blade and/or a CM with relic armor and LC/PF. He's very killy in melee.

I love the LC/PF. I have my BA Captain set up that way with JP. Only thing about that is no AA for BA Capts....:(

Take the firestorm redoubt. It's amazing. Then put something inside it, then laugh heartily.