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I have seen several terminators get decimated without doing much of anything, so many armies have ap 2 blasts, is it worth it to bring them? I wwould it be better to use those points elsewhere?

They are nice for getting DT Land raiders. blasts can be mitigated by not clumping together. but otherwise in a world of xenos armor 2 seems to be diminishing for sure.

If you're playing a friendly game, Terminators are fine, if you're trying to play competitively, then you probably want to stay away from them. TH/SS Terminators can still perform quite well if you can get them to assault early enough, but you can usually do without them.

Possibly making a dark angel army, deathknights? thoughts? experiences? are they worth the points?

Deathwing terminators are expensive but very flexible. The ability to toss in one or two thunder hammers to shield the squad is a fun little tactic. Combined with Ravenwing bikes, the Vengeful Strike can make mincemeat of an opponent's rear ranks, especially a full 10-man squad with double heavies.

raiden wrote:
Possibly making a dark angel army, deathknights? thoughts? experiences? are they worth the points?

DA Death Wing is a cool army. They can all deep strike turn 1 or 2 without rolling and they're twin linked the turn they drop, which is good if you spam your heavy weapons. The problem is that AP 2 weapons are becoming more and more common and you'll have VERY few guys on the board.

My favorite way to play Grey Knights is just spamming Terminators. It's not great, but I've won the last two tournaments I've played in with them. They have the same issues as the DA Terminators, but their wargear (although limited) is better. GK Terminators are the best in the game (Especially the 2 wound variants) and I've always done well with them. If you get into close combat you're just going to win, and you only need a couple units to distract your opponent so your Terminators can get where they need to be.

raiden wrote:
I have seen several terminators get decimated without doing much of anything, so many armies have ap 2 blasts, is it worth it to bring them? I wwould it be better to use those points elsewhere?

Sorry, but I must interrupt.

Decimated means that they were reduced by a tenth. That every tenth marine was killed before doing anything. That it quite possibly the least terrible outcome of being shot at for a turn.

If you want me worried about the termies, say something like "obliterated", "annihilated" or "suffered cataclysmic damage".

I shall provide a relevant post for this thread shortly.

Thankyou, you may continue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The relevant post:

I've oftentimes found terminators to be quite effective. in high-point games (1999+1), I pretty much always take one for the DS and getting an extra HS unit.

In more standard games, I've dropped them behind enemy lines (CSM termies, MoT, Twin-bolter/PF combo) with my daemon prince (DoT, ML2/3, Wings) and stabbed the enemy in the back.
This instant threat has on a number of occasions caused a large chunk of the army to turn around, away from the rest of my force, and spend an entire turn trying to get rid of them. Usually one of them will remain and carry on to murder a feth ton of things by the game's end. If all goes according to plan.

However, this was as CSM, so I'm not sure if loyalist marines can pull off a similar tactic.

In 5th ed, terminators were beast mode, but with all of the changes in 6th, I'm not quite sure how effective they are now. All I know is that by using an appropriate amount of Stehl Reihn (Dropping Multiple Simultaneous Defesive Deep Strikes, preferably with some Methul Bawkses to act as an anvil for this hammer of a force), you can make quite a few players panic into completely screwing over their battle plans.

Problem with the Terminators is power creep, or rather lack of it when it comes to them. They are pretty much same they were two editions ago, rest of the game has moved on. It's not just amount of AP2 weapons, but also sheer amount of Dakka present day armies can unleash. For example, effective firepower of the Fire Warriors nearly doubled from 5th edition to 6th edition. 2+ save combined to single-wound expensive model just is not going to cut it anymore.

Been throwing around the idea of taking my DA with a couple of teleport homer equipped scout squads. Infiltrate and scout move the scouts as close to the enemy deployment as possible, then DWA a few terminator squads in on turn 1 using the homer beacon. Lots of kinks to work out though.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Been throwing around the idea of taking my DA with a couple of teleport homer equipped scout squads. Infiltrate and scout move the scouts as close to the enemy deployment as possible, then DWA a few terminator squads in on turn 1 using the homer beacon. Lots of kinks to work out though.

Hope you go first and don't get ceased. gotta love that turn 1 assault range if you did.

I Think terminators would do best so long as they are protected on the way meaning Land Raiders. and with a bike tech with power field it gets even better. but i play vanilla so take it as you will.

I play BA and i have gotten good use out of 10 Tactical Terminators with 2 Cyclone missile launchers (chainfists go on these guys), I then use Corbulo to tank low Strength wounds for the squad.

While we're on this subject, I'm thinking of starting a IF style SM force. I plan to bring some terminators, and I can't quite decide whether to buy the assault termies or the shooty ones.

I do plan on making a gunline, but I plan to use some fast/DS elements to catch my enemy off-balance. With chaos termies, I'd just stick on a PF and let them get to work, but here I'm not too sure.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Been throwing around the idea of taking my DA with a couple of teleport homer equipped scout squads. Infiltrate and scout move the scouts as close to the enemy deployment as possible, then DWA a few terminator squads in on turn 1 using the homer beacon. Lots of kinks to work out though.

The first kink there would be that DA Scout squads don't get Teleport Homers... You'd need to ally those in from elsewhere.

If you want teleport beacons, use Ravenwing. Its hard for your opponent to pin down where they'll drop in.

 Quanar wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Been throwing around the idea of taking my DA with a couple of teleport homer equipped scout squads. Infiltrate and scout move the scouts as close to the enemy deployment as possible, then DWA a few terminator squads in on turn 1 using the homer beacon. Lots of kinks to work out though.

The first kink there would be that DA Scout squads don't get Teleport Homers... You'd need to ally those in from elsewhere.

You could use Ravenwing as a Beacon delivery system. They scout 12", plus a 6" beacon range = deepstriking only 6" from your opponents front line.

Quanar wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Been throwing around the idea of taking my DA with a couple of teleport homer equipped scout squads. Infiltrate and scout move the scouts as close to the enemy deployment as possible, then DWA a few terminator squads in on turn 1 using the homer beacon. Lots of kinks to work out though.

The first kink there would be that DA Scout squads don't get Teleport Homers... You'd need to ally those in from elsewhere.

That's the idea

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:If you want teleport beacons, use Ravenwing. Its hard for your opponent to pin down where they'll drop in.

If I pull first turn, it won't matter unless they have their own infiltrators/scouts...if....if....IF

That's one of those kinks I mentioned.

HerbaciousT wrote:You could use Ravenwing as a Beacon delivery system. They scout 12", plus a 6" beacon range = deepstriking only 6" from your opponents front line.

A few things with scouts vs bikes:

- Scouts have to possibility of getting a little more range (infiltrate then scout redeploy to within 12" of the bad guys anywhere on the board, then 6" for the beacon)

- You can do it along his board edge, putting yourself on his flank, and most of his army having to fire through his own units, hopefully blocking LOS for a lot of them (depends on his setup)

- Price-wise, they work out to be pretty close, it just depends on what you give them (if anything) and if you go with minimum size squads or large squads and combat squad them. Either way they end up within about 20 points of each other.

- Bikes can be significantly cheaper if I don't want them to be scoring as I don't have to pay the special character or HQ tax like I do with the scouts.

- Scoring bikes or scouts are kind of important in my opinion, as I think for this to work in objective missions, I need to have something on my backfield objectives. I think scouts do this the easiest by simply combat squading half of them on my rear objectives. Then again, the bikes can make a u-turn after they drop off their cargo, but it still leaves them out in the open for a bit. As for sitting on the objectives, with camo cloaks the scouts just need to sit their in area terrain to get a solid save. The bikes on the other hand have to keep moving.

- Special weapons...bikes has them

- Heavy weapons...scouts has them

- If I do take the scouts, then I could take a terminator armor equipped HQ choice from the C:SM book and drop him in turn 2 (hopefully) joining him up with Belial's squad. I think the smarter choice might be something to sit in the backfield with the scoring scouts to help keep them safe.


Anyway, not saying either is better, this is all just stuff I'm considering (and that's even before getting to the terminators themselves)

If WS bikers can take homers (I think sarges can, but my dex is not on hand) they should be a better delivery system than RW.

 Lobukia wrote:
If WS bikers can take homers (I think sarges can, but my dex is not on hand) they should be a better delivery system than RW.

Maybe, but DA Terminators are way better for this tactic for multiple reasons.
It is a shame that DA scouts cannot take homers anymore.

They can't. DA get their teleport homers on the bikes, C:SM get theirs in scout squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually scout bikes have a locator beacon, but then again, they can't be scoring.

I must say ... standard terminators are "ok" but not more.

Ranged ones are pretty meh I must say, they have only ONE heavy weapon and die easily to AP2 (no storm shields).

TH/SS need a good assault transport, and the only viable is the Land Raider (Stormraven would have to be in hover mode and gets destroyed after deployment for sure). Makes them pretty expensive ...



But where they really shine is (imho) when they can get special stuff or even better can score/being troops.

Deathwing Terminators are nasty with their possibility to get a Cyclone into a TH/SS squad, or getting Storm Shields in a ranged squad - they can also be troop choices. Terminators make pretty good objective campers!

Grey Knight Paladins with 2 wounds and 2 Psycannons instead of one.

Preferably get a HQ with eternal warrior in front of your terminators to soak that nasty AP2 shots! (Lysander, new Captain/Chapter Master in SM 6th with Relic, Draigo)



If you know your opponent doesn't field THAT much AP2 weaponry ... a full-terminator-list (needs them beeing troop choice again) can work out very nice (but frustrating for your opponent) - but usually they bring too less ranged firepower for their points.

Question: are Lightning Claw Terminators totally useless now? They had a role in 5th, when they could kill hordes by taking advantage of the Fearless wounds enemy was going to suffer, but now with LC's being AP3 and no more Fearless wounds, they seem quite pointless.

Backfire wrote:
Question: are Lightning Claw Terminators totally useless now? They had a role in 5th, when they could kill hordes by taking advantage of the Fearless wounds enemy was going to suffer, but now with LC's being AP3 and no more Fearless wounds, they seem quite pointless.

I wouldn't say useless per se, but they pale more than ever against TH/SS Terminators. I often take a couple in a larger Terminator Assault Squad so they can chop up some lighter troops or something of the sort.

I have a BA army, and well, I had about five Terminators, new models came out so I ramped it up to 10 Tactical with various load outs, and 10 Close Combat Terminators. I think it’s about choices, I haven’t brought all 20 out at once, I try to see what the opponent has in his army before I make that choice. If I can't I guess and well, make due. I'm not sure if they're worth their weight but as long as they're right up in the fight, or mobile I like to have them. I try not to get them outmatched which seems more likely with about any other army nowadays.

My deathwing army does pretty good against marines but at the last tournament I played in I got matched against gray knights ( I won that game) then I got matched against dark eldar eldar and triptide army. I would say terminators if used to blow open a flank and really put pressure on one part of the board works well but as soon as you get spread out you get run over. I would say they do much better against MEQ than xenos armies.

With the quazi rending of eldar (im still upset about that) and fire warriors being...well fire warriors, terminators drop like flies. So in short, keep the terminators for beer and pretzels games and shelf them for tournament play unless your going full on deathwing.

 raiden wrote:
I have seen several terminators get decimated without doing much of anything, so many armies have ap 2 blasts, is it worth it to bring them? I wwould it be better to use those points elsewhere?

two words.
Assault Cannons.

Assault cannons are actually kinda crappy, I think.

Martel732 wrote:
Assault cannons are actually kinda crappy, I think.

BLASPHEMY!!! They hit hard, hit a lot, and have rending to boot!

And have only 24" range, comes on limited platforms, and are expensive. Rending is extremely unreliable for the amount of assault cannons imperial armies can field, but when EVERY shuriken weapon has it... yeah.

I'll take a scatter laser with 36" range any day of the week. And twin links my other weapons. And is cheaper.

But far more fragile. Terminators are quite viable.

I run mine 60/40 between Hammers and Claws. Put them in a Crusader, and profit. Given the proliferation of monstrous creatures, I've yet to regret bringing them to the battlefield.

I guess. I'll tell you my BA are way more scared of dozens of scatter lasers pointed at me than some box with some weak ass T4 guys with hammers in them.