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So I've been looking for something, and I'm having a hard time finding it.

What I'm looking for is an RPG where, either by design or by choice, your character can go onto an evil path, and it is a somewhat reasonably well-written evil path.

So, while I love the game, something like Knights of the Old Republic doesn't really fit the bill because the dark side path is way too just...pointlessly "BUHAHAHAHA!" evil. I'd love a game that plays like Kotor, but with a better evil story arc. Does anyone know any?

You can try Champions of Norrath: Return to Arms (you can fight for the side of good or evil, and there are quite a few missions that change depending on your alignment). It's only on PS2, but it's an option. Spiderman: Web of Shadows might work too, as you can alternate between the black suit and the red suit, and the amount of damage and casualties (and people you eat) make you more evil. The end comes down to a single choice and the rest of the game's choices make no difference at the end though. But you can play through as an evil SOB if you want, and you'll be treated like an SOB. Also, Fable, of course. I think that's the big one.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
You can try Champions of Norrath: Return to Arms (you can fight for the side of good or evil, and there are quite a few missions that change depending on your alignment). It's only on PS2, but it's an option. Spiderman: Web of Shadows might work too, as you can alternate between the black suit and the red suit, and the amount of damage and casualties (and people you eat) make you more evil. The end comes down to a single choice and the rest of the game's choices make no difference at the end though. But you can play through as an evil SOB if you want, and you'll be treated like an SOB. Also, Fable, of course. I think that's the big one.

Played the Fable games and that is pretty much the same kind of arbitrary 'evil' that KOTOR1 suffers from.

It's not really like evil has any real reason in Fable 1 and 2, it's just the usual video game morality of 'evil = puppy kicking psychopath'. Fable 3 did it a little better, but even then its morality was so wildly out of skew where saving a lake was 'good' and doing everything to prevent the population from being eaten by shoggoths was 'evil'.

MMORPG, but the Imperial Agent storyline from SWTOR might fit your bill. Plays like Space CIA. Very professional-like. And at times you get to choose how evil you want to be on a scale from "I'm sorry it had to come to this" to "does this hurt? how about THIS?", or even letting people off the hook entirely (or at least trying to do so). The latter may or may not bite you in the arse later, though.



Bonus: the female character is voiced by Dragon Age's Ladyhawke.


Alternatively, if you don't need a railroaded story, you could take a look at Mount & Blade Warbands, which is a sandbox medieval-like adventure combat game where you start off as one dude (or gal) with a weapon and can slowly work your way up to whatever you want to become - merchant, mercenary captain, landed noble, bandit, you decide.

Ahhh, Old Republic, I played that for a good while and that is EXACTLY the kind of thing I wanted in a single player experience. I played the Sith Warrior story, and was evil. And that was good evil because, a lot of the times, being evil made sense, but I could kind of (slightly) give my evil some personality and not just be Captain Murderallthethings.

If there's ANYTHING like that out there in a single player mode, I'd be in hog heaven.

Definitely Fable. It's the only game I actually enjoy being evil in, rather than the pointlessness of evil in KOTOR/Baldur's Gate.

Mount and Blade does give you a ton of freedom to do as you wish. SWTOR is freeish to play and can be done as a single player game, really. I had great fun with a lightside Sith Warrior and a darkside Imperial Agent.

- Oh, and Vampire The Masquerade - Bloodlines may fit the bill.

On a similar note, how is Witcher 2 with regard to story and gameplay?

I played some of the first Witcher and, to be totally honest, I -hated- it. Really poor writing and messy, ugly gameplay. Is the second any improvement?

I would say Fable but I hate those games with a passion. Because they are awful. So I'm going to go with Fallout, Witcher 2, and Dungeons & Dragons (pen and paper but usually the best way to go)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would say Fable but I hate those games with a passion. Because they are awful. So I'm going to go with Fallout, Witcher 2, and Dungeons & Dragons (pen and paper but usually the best way to go)

Story-wise few can match Planescape: Torment. In this regard and in general.
While many other games have moustache-twirling evil or chaotic-stupid, Planescape has "pragmatic".

Gonna agree with Planescape Torment, that one has one of the most chilling and effective evil scenes I've ever seen in a game. You find a book that tries to corrupt you...and then you show the evil book just how it's REALLY done.

Yeah, that should have been the first thing that came to mind. Hopefully Torment brings back some of that magic.

On same subject, did anyone else want a choice to side with Aldiun in Skyrim?

I can't stand evil characters in general, but... tried the Bauldur's Gate and Neverwinter Night series?

I'll second Neverwinter Nights.

Played through NWN quite recently, actually. How about NWN2, is that worthwhile?

NWN1 was an amazing game, not in the least due to the many persistent worlds, as well as hundreds of free player-created scenarios and entire campaigns you could play solo or in multiplayer co-op...
I'm not sure I would call the official main campaign(s) a good example in playing an evil character, though. It does have an alignment system, but ... it feels kind of "tacked on", the campaign too rail-roaded, if you get my meaning.

That being said, some of the player-made modules for NWN could be exactly what you're looking for. For example, one campaign I had fun with was "A Hunt through the Dark" - an Underdark campaign where you play a proper Lolth-fearing drow.

NWN2 was, at least to me, a disappointment. The graphics fall into "uncanny valley" - compared to NWN1, they look good enough to override your own imagination (which would flesh out the rather basic visuals of the 1st game), without actually really looking good. The controls are worse, and they made some really weird design decisions (example: you can get a pig as a mage familiar, but not the archetypical raven). Its editor is more cumbersome, and its netcode is less reliable.
Maybe it has gotten better with patches and expansions, but back when I played it years ago, it did not nearly catch my attention as much as NWN1 did.

 Lynata wrote:
NWN1 was an amazing game, not in the least due to the many persistent worlds, as well as hundreds of free player-created scenarios and entire campaigns you could play solo or in multiplayer co-op...
I'm not sure I would call the official main campaign(s) a good example in playing an evil character, though. It does have an alignment system, but ... it feels kind of "tacked on", the campaign too rail-roaded, if you get my meaning.

That being said, some of the player-made modules for NWN could be exactly what you're looking for. For example, one campaign I had fun with was "A Hunt through the Dark" - an Underdark campaign where you play a proper Lolth-fearing drow.

NWN2 was, at least to me, a disappointment. The graphics fall into "uncanny valley" - compared to NWN1, they look good enough to override your own imagination (which would flesh out the rather basic visuals of the 1st game), without actually really looking good. The controls are worse, and they made some really weird design decisions (example: you can get a pig as a mage familiar, but not the archetypical raven). Its editor is more cumbersome, and its netcode is less reliable.
Maybe it has gotten better with patches and expansions, but back when I played it years ago, it did not nearly catch my attention as much as NWN1 did.

There has to be something to that, because I cannot think of another game I have started more times and never finished a campaign in. I just gradually stop logging back in, eventually I forget what the F I was doing, and ten months later I make a new character or four, play through the first act, and give up again.

I seem to remember Neverwinter Nights 2's expansion Mask of the Betrayer being very good for the 'turning evil' side of things. The soul eating mechanic is decently clever in it as well, from my memory, it really can feel like your character is falling to the 'dark side.'

I suppose 'Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising' could count a bit as well.

I really enjoyed NWN 2s story, I felt it was much better than ones. There is a lot to be said, for being evil and good.

I'd give it a shot for sure.

I rather liked NWN2's graphics and mechanics, as well as its storylines. To the point that I can barely bring myself to play NWN1 again.

Has anyone played any RPGs where it's difficult to be good (you aren't rewarded), and the moral choices aren't always obvious?

Really want something like that to play.

I seem to remember several instances in the Dragon Age games where you tend to get rather screwed over storywise when you try to be good.

Skyrim is pretty involved in that as well. If you play through it doing only 'good' things, you won't get very far in the majority of faction questlines and you certainly won't get more than 1 or 2 daedric artifacts.

In this genere dose Baldurs Gate 1 & 2 come to mind. Also Icewind Dale rings a few bells in my mind at least. In Baldurs Gate one can play a very, very evil person. And complet the game as one to boot. In icewind dale I have hd some rather amusing moments of creating a party where everyone where rather unpleasent. the two races that lend themselves very much to this is The Drow and grey Dwarfs. But be prepared to have to deal with a whole lot more complications if one chooses to do so.

Might have to give those ones a go again. Dragon age is a good one. And I haven't played Baldurs gate in a long while.

I hear that deus ex gives you a lot of choice on how good [or evil] you want to be.

Yeah, Dragon Age has some interesting elements to it. The whole question about mages vs templars (or security vs freedom) alone is a pretty "grey" topic where you don't really have a good or an evil side, and everything depends on perspective.
There were huuuge arguments on the Bioware forums between supporters for either side.

Also agree about Deus Ex. Great story, great characters, great atmosphere, and an interesting topic on how we feel about "improving" the human race, and what price we are willing to pay to reap the potential benefits.
The "good vs evil" is mostly limited to what level of lethality you choose to employ during the missions - you can sneak, you can incapacitate, or you can outright kill your enemies. However, there are some big questions where you have to make a decision.

Hmmm, I never played the DoW2 Chaos expansion, and I really like that the evil/corruption in that has some teeth and meaning to it.

Evil in a game like Skyrim is there yeah, but it doesn't really do anything, you know? That's why I liked the Old Republic's style of light/dark side, as it felt like I was building a personality there, but it wasn't so lockstep that I had to do it. My Sith Warrior was pretty darn merciless, and had absolutely no patience for weasely people, but I gave him an honorable streak which I don't think you can do in any other game.

curran12 wrote:My Sith Warrior was pretty darn merciless, and had absolutely no patience for weasely people, but I gave him an honorable streak which I don't think you can do in any other game.

I really liked how the game allowed you to "personalise" your character by confronting you with such choices. As a bonus, it made replaying the same area with different characters more fun, too!

For example, that Imperial mission on Alderaan where you have to defend one of the noble houses against a raid from another one, and you encounter the enemy leader in a tunnel ...
My Bounty Hunter: goes for the diplomatic solution, negotiates his surrender
My Sith Warrior: opts for honourable combat, 1-on-1 duel
My Intelligence Agent: "No dice." *triggers explosives, burying the hostile force under tons of rubble*

I suppose my Sith was a little bit like yours. A wicked "code of honour" that saw her mercilessly dispatch weaker foes, even unarmed civilians if deemed worthless or in the way, or letting them get slaughtered by Imperial troops without caring - yet as soon as she encountered someone who actually seemed like a challenge she'd be all like "let's duel! no tricks!"
Coincidentally, this attitude also seems to synch really well with Jaesa's mindset - at least the corrupted version of her, obviously.

Good times.

Imperial Agent was hilarious fun in that game...