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So I'd like to still run a Pegasus character for my DE, but I'm having trouble working out how many points to commit to it. I feel that either way, Crown of Command seems mandatory in case he ever goes up against an entire unit, and that restricts a lot of magic item points.

Here is what I was thinking for a dreadlord, albeit it's 307 points:

Dreadlord, Heavy Armor, SD Cloak, Shield, Dark Pegasus 207

Magic item build 1:
Crown of Command, Black Amulet, Biting Blade(just for magic attacks) 100

Magic item build 2:
Sword of Bloodshed(+3A), Crown of Command, Dragonbane Gem 100

For a Master, I'm at more of a loss. He's fewer points, but to kill he sacrifices any secondary save, and with crown he sacrifices both defense and offense to some degree but becomes stubborn.

Ideas?

It very much depends on what you are wanting to send him after. Do you have any targets in mind?

 curran12 wrote:
It very much depends on what you are wanting to send him after. Do you have any targets in mind?

I figured on using him to hold up blocks of troops or as a mage/warmachine hunter.

Can't speak specificially about the new items in the DE book as I do not own it (yet) and have not faced it (again, yet), but:

Generic infantry (ie S/T 3 with low armor?) you only need the Crown of Command and the Dawnstone to make him survivable. Stubborn, 1+ re-rollable save should be fine for besting lower infantry units. Toss on a magic weapon to taste (you can afford +1/+2 strength or attacks still...)

Different idea, but if you want a warmachine/ mage hunter build you probably do not need the CoC, as he won't be up against ranks and is still high LD.
Armor of Destiny, Dawnstone, OTS, Halberd
Provides 1+ reroll, 4+ ward, and str 5 re-roll to hit, seems a decent jack-of-all-trades build really.

-OR- Dawnstone, giant blade, OTS: 1+ re-roll, str 7, re-roll ward saves.

For Master(s), I would go cheap... Natural 1+ save (SDC, shield, mount, heavy armor), great weapon or halberd, and either DBG or Dragonhelm on them to give them saves vs flaming, just in case.

Single Master could go BSB to get the re-roll to LD (see old chuck-norris builds) while a DreadLord goes CoC for stubborn...

I think you really need a secondary save. Most GW units will be reducing your save to 4+

I think that Crown of Command, Talisman of Pres, Dragonhelm, Potion of Foolhardiness and a halberd is a good build.

It gives you a 1+/4++ and S5. If Magic attacks are that importan, you could drop the Halberd, Dragonhelm and the Potion for the sword of might.

Run some sort of beasts caster alongside him. Wyssans or Savage Beast would work nicely and, iirc, you get a bonus to cast because of the Pegasus

Just for arguments sake:

Against anything that does not A) not allow armor saves to be taken B) have strength higher than 6 and C) does not have killing blow the Dawnstone on a 1+ save is superior/ equal to the 4+ward save

Re-rolling your 4+ armor is identical to rolling the 4+ armor followed by a 4+ ward, the DS is just cheaper than the ToP making it easier to fit on a Master or with other gear on the DL

True, and that would allow you to take the Ogre blade. But personally I think the idea of the PegLord is to tie up and do damage against any unit, and not be taken out by any old GW, KB or charging cavalry unit.

I'm not great with Fantasy but just thought I would add that taking a Master on a Pegasus is better for the extra point of both Toughness and Wounds that the Master gets essentially for free, unless I'm mistaken with that of course.

I would either take a very cheap master, or a tooled up lord.
I don't think the master is survivable enough. Keep him cheap so you don't give up too many points when you lose him.

-Matt

On a Pegasus, a Master and Lord have exactly the same survivability (outside of magic items) due to the Pegasus Stats, Should take that into consideration Matt

The bit about the extra toughness and wounds is a good point.

Master on Dark Pegasus w/ heavy armor, SDC, shield, and halberd buys you T4, W3, 1+ save, and str 5 re-rollable attacks (re-rolling 1's to wound)

Without the new book, I am not clear on the points, but using the old book as reference it shouldn't be more than 150pts for the load out.

If I pick up the Dark Elf mantle again, I might run three of these generic fellows as support for an MSU/ flying circus army.

Does it give T4? Can someone direct me to where it says that? Under monstrous cav it only says they use the highest wounds. I hope I'm wrong but I've been using T3 peg characters Lol.

It's in the main FAQ as errata.

Page 83 – Monstrous Cavalry.
In the second paragraph, replace “All the cavalry rules…with
one exception – monstrous cavalry always use the highest
Wounds characteristic…” with “All the cavalry rules…with
two exceptions – monstrous cavalry always use the highest
Toughness and Wounds characteristics…”

How is the Master gaining the extra point of toughness?

Thanks, that's awesome

That's one of the reason of the awesomness of Pegasii and other "small" monstrous mounts, it's a very cheap upgrade and give huge bonuses to Hero-sized characters (or Lords in the case of Bonebreakers !)

definately run the master with 1+ and either charmed shield or some wardsave trinket and either a halberd or lance for rerolls. He flies, so he should really only get into combats he wants to. keep him cheap. Its no different than great eagle riders in HE and WE or razordactyls in LM or even Empire/bret pegasus riders to a certain extent.

Another point with the Master on a Pegasus; his unit type changes to Monstrous Cavalry, which makes him immune to the effects of killing blow. Thus, a 1+ rerollable is very durable. I recommend the Charmed Shield, though.

His targets will be small units or Warmachines. For around 150, he's a very solid WM hunter. The problem with that is you could just take two units of Shades for the same points. :/

If you want to run a character on a mount to run at units, I suggest either a Beastlord or Dreadlord on Manticore. Still easy to get a 1+ save and they get 100 points to spend on items, so stubborn crown isn't too taxing. Again, Charmed Shield will really help vs cannons. Beastmaster can even give the Manticore +d3 attacks.

I was planning on running this build against a lizardmen army.

Dreadlord, SDC, Heavy armor, Shield, lance, Dawnstone, and the Cloak of Twilight on a pegasus.

He has a 1+ rerollable armor save and a 3+ ward save versus shooting and magic. When he charges he gets killing blow and d3 wounds.

He can deal with skirmishers, monsters (due to the d3 wounds), and can go after characters in units with the killing blow. I find that this build gives me a lot of flexibility during the game.

how many points is that total? That looks like a good fit as long as he's cheap enough to still fit a lvl4 I would go with it. All around toolkit on a flying horse/

I disagree. 4 S6 D3 wounds is good on paper, but more often than not, it either isn't enough (steggadon) or it's expensive overkill.
He won't get to go after characters when he charges, that's what my champ is for.
After the charge, he's just a S4 pud, with decent armor but no ward.
Given that a unit champ completely neuters his character hunting, and on average he doesn't kill a steggadon; what are you going to throw up against in a lizard army?

Also, as a dreadlord, not only is he expensive, but he is also your general. Please, through that extra 100 points at me.
You can get 2 masters on pegs with 1+ armor and cloaks for about the same cost. That is much scarier.

-Matt

I second "two masters instead of one dreadlord" as well.

Halberd for the static str 5 or lance for the str 6 on the charge is enough and the weapon really depends on your optimal targets.

Personally I would stick with halberd. Str 5 is enough to wreck most skirmishers, chaff, and war machine crews and won't ruin your life if you happen to get stuck/ charged (like the lance does)

This thread has really started to open my eyes to this possibility.

A Master on a Peg with the Cloak of Twilight, full mundane and a Lance is ~170pts and, on the charge, kicks out 3 WS6 S6 KB, Multiple Wounds (D3) hits, with all the usual perks of a Dark Elf and an extra 2 S5 attacks from the Pegasus. That would really hurt multi-wound models. Like others have said, a second could be used as well. Perhaps with full mundane, GW/Halberd and the Crown of Command/Dawnstone, (maybe Other Trickster's Shard or a Potion too) for just sticking around and being a pain. I'm starting to see a Pegasus tag-team forming.

 The Shadow wrote:
This thread has really started to open my eyes to this possibility.

A Master on a Peg with the Cloak of Twilight, full mundane and a Lance is ~170pts and, on the charge, kicks out 3 WS6 S6 KB, Multiple Wounds (D3) hits, with all the usual perks of a Dark Elf and an extra 2 S5 attacks from the Pegasus. That would really hurt multi-wound models. Like others have said, a second could be used as well. Perhaps with full mundane, GW/Halberd and the Crown of Command/Dawnstone, (maybe Other Trickster's Shard or a Potion too) for just sticking around and being a pain. I'm starting to see a Pegasus tag-team forming.

I'd go with full mundane and lance, and call it a day. KB or multiple wounds D3 won't win combat, and without the tricksters helm, you're taking a break test.
Stick with cheap, and hit softer targets. If you want to hit something harder, taking another master on another peg.

-Matt

Can 2 characters join to make their own unit? 2 Masters, 1 with Crown would be a nasty combo.

Yes, they can.

Yes, but you can't join a unit of flyers
so a Peg dude can't join another Peg dude

Think Captasus builds from Empire or Great Eagle characters from HE or WE armies...

Dirt cheap is the way to go as with ASF, MP, and Fly, the Master on Peg can do whatever it wants. Lance or Halberd is up to the user, but charging THROUGH an enemy chaff unit or two, then sliding in to a war machine crew, mage bunker, or any other small unit will make this guys points back.

In the last book for WoC I ran an Exalted with ASF sword and dragon helm on Steed of Slaanesh for this same purpose... He was awesome at it and I usually had something worthwhile for him to fight/ threaten. These Masters are cheaper in points and arguably more effective with their special rules.

I'm in. I will let people know how it tests when I run a list with two Masters on Dark Pegasus this weekend!

 Aerethan wrote:
Can 2 characters join to make their own unit? 2 Masters, 1 with Crown would be a nasty combo.

I hadn't even considered that! Now that is nasty

As far as not being able to join units of flyers, technically neither one of them is "a unit of flyers." As the book stipulates that they become MC, I see no reason why they can't join each other.

I understand that they can do that, in the case of being shot at though can the firing unit specify target?

Aside from what we're talking here, what does everyone think of a lvl 4 on a dark peg with cloak of twilight, obsidian talisman, and up to 35 pts of whatever. Generally looking at dark magic with this as soul stealer can get her up to 10 wounds (and she has 2++ if she generates 3 power dice) although life can heal her each successful cast. Even aside from those though you can get a nasty purple sun position pretty early on.