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Hey all here is pages to help with this question.

Skyfire on page 42 (BRB) basically says if you have the skyfire SR you can use your normal BS to fire at flyers/skimmers and FMC, while you have to make snap shots at anything else.

"Heavy" Page (51) (BRB) type weapon states that if you move it you have to snap shot.

Snap shot Page (13) (BRB) that your shots count as BS 1 when making snap shots.

So if you have a Missile Launcher with Flakk missiles and for what ever reason you move or were counted as moving in the movement phase, would you be able to fire at a flyer/skimmer/FMC at normal BS if you used the skyfire missile, or would you have to snap shot?

My present interpretation is that with the missile launcher you would be able to use your normal BS when firing Skyfire even if you moved, because: if you have to Snap shot your BS is counted as 1 but your normal BS is Still 3/4/5...ect

A possible counter argument, is that "counted as" means that you are BS 1. The criticism to this counter is that while you are counted as BS 1 you are still BS 3/4/5..ect and that your normal BS is not actually lower.

So would you use your modified BS (Counted as) or your Normal BS?

"If a model carrying a Heavy weapon moved in the preceding Movement phase, he can fire it in the Shooting phase but only as Snap Shots."

The Skyfire rule only states that you may fire at normal BS at Flyers/Skimmers/FMC, it does not allow you to change the BS of a Snap Shot.

so then your saying that "heavy changes your normal BS from 3/4/5...ect to 1?

So then Skyfire can be taken to mean the Normal "Modified" BS and not the normal BS of the model. I have not found anything to back that up.

Skyfire does not state that you change the BS of anything, it states that you use your normal BS. So as I see it if a model is normally BS 6 and has to snap shot, then its normally BS 6 is counted as BS 1 (which is not its normal BS) That is the Snap shot rule.

Now Skyfire which only cares about the normal BS of the shooter, does not care about what the BS counts As only what the normal BS is.

"RAW" Heavy weapons with Skyfire Special rule can move and shoot skyfire at normal BS. I still cannot find anything in the FAQ's or BRB that would lead me to believe other wise.

You're firing snap shots, snap shots are at BS 1, Skyfire does not grant you permission to modify the BS of a Snap Shot.

 BLADERIKER wrote:
so then your saying that "heavy changes your normal BS from 3/4/5...ect to 1?

So then Skyfire can be taken to mean the Normal "Modified" BS and not the normal BS of the model. I have not found anything to back that up.

Skyfire does not state that you change the BS of anything, it states that you use your normal BS. So as I see it if a model is normally BS 6 and has to snap shot, then its normally BS 6 is counted as BS 1 (which is not its normal BS) That is the Snap shot rule.

Now Skyfire which only cares about the normal BS of the shooter, does not care about what the BS counts As only what the normal BS is.

"RAW" Heavy weapons with Skyfire Special rule can move and shoot skyfire at normal BS. I still cannot find anything in the FAQ's or BRB that would lead me to believe other wise.

A snap shot is made at BS1, and since the Heavy weapon having moved can only fire snap shots then they must fire as BS1.

By the writing of the Heavy rule previously quoted if they may ONLY fire as snapshots if having moved, then if the shot isnt a snap shot (and not BS1) then they may not fire it.

As above. I think its pretty clear and there isn't really an argument at all. It also makes sense if you apply simple logic rather than attempting to bend rules for benefit. The rule is quite clear, a model carrying a heavy weapon that moves can only fire snap shots. There is no exceptions, unless of course you have a rule like relentless - of which clearly states you can fire heavy weapons as if stationary. Skyfire has no such inclusion.

 BLADERIKER wrote:
so then your saying that "heavy changes your normal BS from 3/4/5...ect to 1?

So then Skyfire can be taken to mean the Normal "Modified" BS and not the normal BS of the model. I have not found anything to back that up.

Skyfire does not state that you change the BS of anything, it states that you use your normal BS. So as I see it if a model is normally BS 6 and has to snap shot, then its normally BS 6 is counted as BS 1 (which is not its normal BS) That is the Snap shot rule.

Now Skyfire which only cares about the normal BS of the shooter, does not care about what the BS counts As only what the normal BS is.

"RAW" Heavy weapons with Skyfire Special rule can move and shoot skyfire at normal BS. I still cannot find anything in the FAQ's or BRB that would lead me to believe other wise.

Moving forces Snap Shots.
Shooting at a Flyer forces Snap Shots.
Snap Shots cannot be modified.
Skyfire lifts one of these restrictions. The other is still in place meaning you fire Snap Shots.

So then you do not use the normal BS of the firing unit that is skying firing, and you use the modified BS of the firing unit, this is what you are all saying.

So consider the fact that if a model is BS 4 normally (without modifiers), and that anything that modifies the BS will either add to or subtract from the normal BS. Failing a blind check modifies the BS to 1, snap shooting modifies the BS to 1, using a Siguma modifies the BS to 5, and all of these modified BS's but are not the normal BS.

So then there is a issue between what counts as the BS at the time of firing and what the normal BS is. That's the issue.

Snapshots are a type of shot, and in this case the only type this model can perform when shooting.

Snapshots are completed at BS1, this is a rule of snapshots.

At this time the model may only perform a single time of shot having moved. This type is a snapshot, a snapshot is BS1.

The models BS is irrelevant in this case, the snapshot overrides this.

BS1 is the normal BS used by a model firing a heavy weapon after moving.

The answer is on page 81, under hard to hit it makes it clear that shot fired at a zooming flyer by a model or weapon with the skyfire rule are not snap shots. The FAQ tells us that you cannot change the ballistic skill of a snap shot. This is a clarification that skyfire does not change the ballistic skill either, it makes the shot not a snap shot. Heavy weapons can only make snap shots if they model has moved. Trying to fire a heavy snap shot weapon at a flyer results in you not firing a snap shot at the flyer and the heavy rule prohibits this behavior.

DJGietzen: Are you saying that the Skyfire rule would prevent the unit from snap firing at the flyer?

This has nothing to do with the Hard to Hit Rule as "Hard to Hit" points you back to both the "Snap Shot" general rule and the "Skyfire" special rule. As it simply states that you are firing snap shots unless you have the skyfire rule nothing else.

Now that we are on rules though I might as well point out that "Snap Shot" is a general rule, where as "Skyfire" is a special rule, and that as per the BRB Special rules bend, break, or flat out ignore general rules. This would give "Skyfire" the permission to let a heavy weapon that moved, fire at a Flyer/FMC/skimmer at normal BS.

This is the criticism as I have seen it so far of my argument: Snap shots count as BS 1 when firing in overwatch,at a model with the "Hard to Hit" general rule, or as a heavy weapon that moved in the movement phase. That the normal BS of a snap firing model is BS 1. That nothing is allowed to modify the Snap Shot in anyway. Skyfire is not given permission to modify the BS of a Snap shot. Therefore a heavy weapon that moved even if it has the skyfire special rule still fires at BS 1. That is the Criticism so far or did I miss something?

Here is my criticism of this criticism.

Snap shots count as BS 1 when firing in overwatch, at Models with the Hard to Hit rule, and if you moved as a heavy weapon. The Snap Shot BS 1 as per the FAQ cannot be modified by any special rule what so ever, i. e.. if you have a Signum you cannot change the BS 1 into a BS 2 due to the wargear. So this should end the my argument right there correct? It does not, and in fact it only causes more issues. As per the FAQ no Special rule can ever Modify the BS 1 of a Snap Shot, And Skyfire is a special rule, meaning that either Skyfire has no effect and will never let you fire at normal BS if you have to Snap shot with a weapon or model with this Special rule, or that Skyfire does not modify the BS of the shot at all, and only instructs the player as to which BS to use when firing it. The Skyfire Special rule lets a model or a model firing a weapon with Skyfire use its normal BS when firing at Flyers/FMC/Skimmers, if we apply the above information to this then the normal BS when firing at a flyer/FMC is BS 1 because of the Hard to Hit rule and the Snap shot FAQ, meaning that skyfire is still shooting at BS 1 and not BS 3/4/5...ect. If we come to the conclusion that the Normal BS of a Model having to fire "Snap Shots" is BS 1 then the "Skyfire" special rule does nothing and has no effect what so ever.

Here is my argument:

Skyfire explicitly states "Normal Ballistic Skill", not current ballistic skill, not modified ballistic skill, not counts as ballistic skill, but normal ballistic skill. What is the normal BS of a Model? The Normal BS of a Model is found on its Stat Line, the only way for this stat to change value is to buy an up grade that will permanently alter the value before the game starts (Tomb Blades w Neblou Scopes) (BS 4) to (BS 5) and while in game BS 5 is the normal BS for this unit. When firing Snap Shots the BS of 5 is modified to BS 1, but the BS is not permanently changed, thus the Normal BS of the Upgraded Tomb Blades is BS 5 and the Modified BS for Snap Shooting is BS 1. If we conclude that the Normal BS of a model is the BS found in the Stat line for the model plus any permanent changes caused by upgrades to the model, then the Skyfire Special rule does in fact work, as it does not Modify the BS but simply tells you to use your normal BS instead of the Modified Snap Shot BS.

Thus with all of that stated. A heavy weapon with Skyfire firing at a Flyer/Skimmer/FMC as per the Skyfire Special rule will use the models Normal BS and not the Modified Snap Shot BS.

Did I miss anything?

If the snap shot rules said it dropped your BS to 1, you would make sense. What the Snap Shot rules do is make you fire a certain type of shot, and the normal ballistic skill of that shot is 1.

Skyfire doens't allow you to override the snap shooting restrictions which have occured from rules outside what is stated.

The modification for moving heavy still exists at the time of Skyfire, and your 'normal' BS still includes that modification.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
DJGietzen: Are you saying that the Skyfire rule would prevent the unit from snap firing at the flyer?

I'm saying the models with the skyfire rule are not making snap shots when firing at a flyer. A model that moved can ONLY fire snap shots with a heavy weapon*. You cannot choose to fire snap shots and skyfire prevents you from firing snap shots at flyers so you can't move and fire a heavy weapon at a flyer. You have no permision to not fire snap shots with your heavy weapon after moving.

*baring any special rules that allow you to fire non-snap shots after moving with a heavy weapon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BLADERIKER wrote:

Did I miss anything?

Skyfire does not modify the balistic skill of your snap shots. It allows you to fire normal shots instead of snap shots at a zooming flyer.

DJ - skyfire does indeed let you still end up firing snapshots, if something else forces you to fire snapshots.

An Evading flyer still has the skyfire rule, but would snapshot against another flyer.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
DJ - skyfire does indeed let you still end up firing snapshots, if something else forces you to fire snapshots.

An Evading flyer still has the skyfire rule, but would snapshot against another flyer.

Page and Paragraph please.

A model that has moved can ONLY fire as snap-shots when firing a heavy weapon.
Shots resolved against a zooming flyer are always snap-shots unless the shooter has the skyfire special rule.
Skyfire only gets rid of one cause of snap-shots

 DJGietzen wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
DJGietzen: Are you saying that the Skyfire rule would prevent the unit from snap firing at the flyer?

I'm saying the models with the skyfire rule are not making snap shots when firing at a flyer. A model that moved can ONLY fire snap shots with a heavy weapon*. You cannot choose to fire snap shots and skyfire prevents you from firing snap shots at flyers so you can't move and fire a heavy weapon at a flyer. You have no permision to not fire snap shots with your heavy weapon after moving.

*baring any special rules that allow you to fire non-snap shots after moving with a heavy weapon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BLADERIKER wrote:

Did I miss anything?

Skyfire does not modify the balistic skill of your snap shots. It allows you to fire normal shots instead of snap shots at a zooming flyer.

So if I understand you, A snap shot with skyfire is resolved as a normal BS shot if fired at at a flyer because of the SKyfire rule, and the Skyfire rule does not care about the reason why the BS of the shot is modified only what the normal BS of the model is. At the same time Skyfire does care about the modified BS of the model if the model is having to fire a snap shot for any reason.

That is paradoxical logic.

And here is the proof.

At all times models are required to fire snap shots at flying targets. Which means that when you first target a flyer you are making snap shots and your normal BS is modified to BS 1. If and only if there is a weapon in the unit with the Skyfire rule will this rule take effect, at which point the model with Skyfire is allowed to use its normal BS instead of the modified BS of 1 to fire at the flyer.

meaning.

1: You target the flyer, and your BS is modified to 1 as per the snap shot rule.
2: Then you check to see if Skyfire is on any of the models making the shooting attack.
3: If skyfire is present then the model/s with Skyfire can use their normal BS for those shots and ignore the Modified BS 1 from the Snap shot rule.
3: you resolve your shooting as per both the Skyfire and Snap Shot rules.

No matter how you look at it, you check for the Skyfire Special Rule after your BS is modified by the Snap shot rule, meaning that what you are saying is, your normal BS for shooting at any flyer is 1 and not what is stated on the models stat-line. (This is the Logic being presented) Thus meaning that shooting attacks made with Skyfire are hitting at BS 1 and not 3/4/5...ect. Because the normal BS of the model shooting is modified to BS 1 before Skyfire is checked for.

If Skyfire cares about what the Modified BS of the shooting Model is, then it must care at all times and in every situation, unless specifically stated otherwise, by some rule. (Which has yet to be stated)
If Skyfire does not care about the Modified BS of the firing model, and only cares about the normal BS of the firing model, then this too must not care at all times and in every situation, unless specifically stated otherwise by a rule. (Which no one has stated yet)

The Snap Shot rule says nothing about it over riding Skyfire in any way, shape, or form, in fact quite the opposite is true, where Skyfire over rides the Snap shot rule

 BLADERIKER wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
DJ - skyfire does indeed let you still end up firing snapshots, if something else forces you to fire snapshots.

An Evading flyer still has the skyfire rule, but would snapshot against another flyer.

Page and Paragraph please.

For what? That being required to fire snapshots due to X is not lifted by something letting you not fire snapshots due to Y?

It's the exact same argument as assaulting from Reserve from a vehicle with the Assault rule.

You can't assault because:
1). Unit arrived from Reserve,
2). Can't assault out of a Transport.

Assault vehicle removes restriction 2). but not restriction 1).
So the unit still cannot assault.
(A later FAQ clarified this)

Unit is Snap Shooting because:
1). Moved with a Heavy Weapons
2). Shooting a Flyer

Again Skyfire removes restriction 2). but not restriction 1).

Agreed with Grendel. You can ignore the Snapshot requirement as a result of Skyfire when shooting at the flyer. However, skyfire does not remove the restriction on Heavy Weapons and their rules.

Page 51: When shooting, a model with a Heavy weapon shoots the number of times indicated. If a model moved in the preceding Movement phase, he can fire it in the Shooting phase but only as Snap Shots (see page 13 for details) Remember wthat weapons with the Blast special rule cannont fire Snap Shots. Models that shoot with Heavy weapons in the Shooting phase cannot charge in the ensuing Assault Phase.

Page 53: Chart Heavy Weapons (Firer Cannot Assault) Shows nifty picture of range and Stationary vs. Moving. Arrow shows for Moving Maximum range of weapon, but fire as a snap shot. Little box next to it If a model with a Heavy weapon remains Stationary, it can fire the number of times indicated (at his normal ballistic skill) up to the maximum range of the weapon. If the firer moved, the shot will only hit on a 6, as it is a Snap Shot (fired at Ballistic Skill 1)

Page 13: Snap Shots : Under certain circumstances, models can only fire Snap Shots - Opportunistic bursts of fire 'snapped' off in the general direction of the target. The most comon occurence of a Snap Shot is when a model with a Heavy weapon, such as a heavy bolter, moves and shoots in the same turn (see page 51 for more on heavy weapons). If a model is forced to make snap shots rather than shoot normally, then it's Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots.

Page 49: Hard to Hit A Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature is a very difficult target for units without specialised weapons. Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as Snap Shots unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule. (See Page 42).

Page 81: Hard to Hit Zooming Flyers are incredibly difficult targets for troops without suitably calibrated weapons and scopes. Shots resolved at a Zooming Flyer can only be resolved as Snap Shots (unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule, as described on page 42).


Page 32: Second Paragrah: Whenever a creature or weapon has an ability that breaks or bends one of the main game rules, it is represented by a Special Rule.

Page 42: Sky Fire A model with this special rule, or that is firing a weapon with this special rule, uses its Normal Ballistic Skill when shooting at Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures, and Skimmers. Unless it also has the Interceptor Special Rule, it can only fire snap shots against other targets.

Page 57: Flakk Missile - Heavy 1, Skyfire


The Weapon itself has both the Heavy Rule and the Skyfire Rule. You must use both rules when firing the weapon. For instance were you to target the Flakk Missile at something other than a Flyer, Flying Monstrous Creature or Skimmer it would be treated as a snap shot due to not having the Interceptor Special Rule. Or per the Heavy Rule you would not be able to charge in the following Assault Phase if you fire the Weapon.

Both rules are exclusive to themselves and independent of each other Skyfire does not change the rules and requirements of Heavy and Heavy can't change the rules and requirements of Skyfire. This does not mean that Skyfire ignores rules and situations cause by Heavy. Per the Flying Monstrous Creature and Flyer Sections you are allowed to fire at Normal BS against them with the Skyfire Special Rule. Per the Heavy Weapon rule, which does not mention a target, you are forced to fire the weapon as a snap shot if you move. Not because you are shooting at a flyer, but because you moved.

So there are two situations causing you to Snap Shot
1) You are shooting at a flyer
2) You moved with a Heavy Weapon

The Skyfire Rule allows you to shoot at normal Ballistic Skill at a Flyer due to it's special rule wording. Negating Situation 1.
The Heavy rule forces you to snap shoot, as a result of movement.

Skyfire is in regards to the situation of shooting at a flyer and thus alters the rules within those flyer sections stating you must make a Snap Shot when shooting at them. It does not reference within itself the Heavy Rule, which is what is Forcing you to Snap Shoot, and it does not reference a change to the snap shooting rules, so it can't change that rule.

 Bobaram wrote:
Agreed with Grendel. You can ignore the Snapshot requirement as a result of Skyfire when shooting at the flyer. However, skyfire does not remove the restriction on Heavy Weapons and their rules.

Page 51: When shooting, a model with a Heavy weapon shoots the number of times indicated. If a model moved in the preceding Movement phase, he can fire it in the Shooting phase but only as Snap Shots (see page 13 for details) Remember wthat weapons with the Blast special rule cannont fire Snap Shots. Models that shoot with Heavy weapons in the Shooting phase cannot charge in the ensuing Assault Phase.

Page 53: Chart Heavy Weapons (Firer Cannot Assault) Shows nifty picture of range and Stationary vs. Moving. Arrow shows for Moving Maximum range of weapon, but fire as a snap shot. Little box next to it If a model with a Heavy weapon remains Stationary, it can fire the number of times indicated (at his normal ballistic skill) up to the maximum range of the weapon. If the firer moved, the shot will only hit on a 6, as it is a Snap Shot (fired at Ballistic Skill 1)

Page 13: Snap Shots : Under certain circumstances, models can only fire Snap Shots - Opportunistic bursts of fire 'snapped' off in the general direction of the target. The most comon occurence of a Snap Shot is when a model with a Heavy weapon, such as a heavy bolter, moves and shoots in the same turn (see page 51 for more on heavy weapons). If a model is forced to make snap shots rather than shoot normally, then it's Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots.

Page 49: Hard to Hit A Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature is a very difficult target for units without specialised weapons. Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as Snap Shots unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule. (See Page 42).

Page 81: Hard to Hit Zooming Flyers are incredibly difficult targets for troops without suitably calibrated weapons and scopes. Shots resolved at a Zooming Flyer can only be resolved as Snap Shots (unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule, as described on page 42).


Page 32: Second Paragrah: Whenever a creature or weapon has an ability that breaks or bends one of the main game rules, it is represented by a Special Rule.

Page 42: Sky Fire A model with this special rule, or that is firing a weapon with this special rule, uses its Normal Ballistic Skill when shooting at Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures, and Skimmers. Unless it also has the Interceptor Special Rule, it can only fire snap shots against other targets.

Page 57: Flakk Missile - Heavy 1, Skyfire


The Weapon itself has both the Heavy Rule and the Skyfire Rule. You must use both rules when firing the weapon. For instance were you to target the Flakk Missile at something other than a Flyer, Flying Monstrous Creature or Skimmer it would be treated as a snap shot due to not having the Interceptor Special Rule. Or per the Heavy Rule you would not be able to charge in the following Assault Phase if you fire the Weapon.

Both rules are exclusive to themselves and independent of each other Skyfire does not change the rules and requirements of Heavy and Heavy can't change the rules and requirements of Skyfire. This does not mean that Skyfire ignores rules and situations cause by Heavy. Per the Flying Monstrous Creature and Flyer Sections you are allowed to fire at Normal BS against them with the Skyfire Special Rule. Per the Heavy Weapon rule, which does not mention a target, you are forced to fire the weapon as a snap shot if you move. Not because you are shooting at a flyer, but because you moved.

So there are two situations causing you to Snap Shot
1) You are shooting at a flyer
2) You moved with a Heavy Weapon

The Skyfire Rule allows you to shoot at normal Ballistic Skill at a Flyer due to it's special rule wording. Negating Situation 1.
The Heavy rule forces you to snap shoot, as a result of movement.

Skyfire is in regards to the situation of shooting at a flyer and thus alters the rules within those flyer sections stating you must make a Snap Shot when shoot at them. It does not reference within itself the Heavy Rule, which is what is Forcing you to Snap Shoot, and it does not reference a change to the snap shooting rules, so it can't change that rule.

As you have already posted all the rules I will point out that the "Heavy" Rule is a general rule and thus can be broken by the Skyfire Special Rule.

Heavy only states that if you move you fire snap shots, and that is the only restriction that heavy gives.

Hard to Hit also references Snap shots as the only way to fire at a flyer.

No where in the snap shot rule as written does it state that you can ignore or disregard the Skyfire Special rule under certain circumstances.

No where on the Movement chart does it show a Weapon with Skyfire and how movement effects it.

No where in the skyfire rule as written does it state that it only ignores those snap shots caused by shooting at a flyer and no other situations, it only states that you use your normal BS to fire at Flyers/FMCs/Skimmers. Also the "Heavy", "Hard to Hit", and "Snap shot" general rules as written state nothing about discounting or ignoring the Skyfire Special rule in anyway.

"Snap Shot" clearly states that if you are forced to make snap shots instead of shooting normally then you are BS 1. Meaning that if you are forced to make snap shots you are not shooting normally, and in the case of moving and "Heavy", shooting at a flying model, you are not shooting at your normal BS. Where as the Skyfire Special Rule explicitly states you use your normal BS when Firing/Shooting at Flyers/FMCs/skimmers.

The Skyfire Special Rule as written breaks all rules that restrict your BS when shooting at Flyers/FMCs/ Skimmers.

And as convoluted as that subject is, this is not the same as assaulting from a transport arriving from reserves, which is strictly forbidden as you cannot even disembark from a transport arriving from reserves as you have moved more than 6 in". This is about a Special Rule overriding sever general rules at once, which it is more than capable of doing as Special rules break General rules.

By all means quote me in the FAQ's and in the Rules where Snap shots as a rule is allowed to disregard the Skyfire Special Rule in if you move. Show me where I am wrong, but do not simply use a logical fallacy or adding to rules as written to prove your point.

As the Rules are written you can move a weapon with the "Heavy" Type and while firing and are force to Snap fire, if you have the Skyfire Special Rule and are firing at a Flyer/Skimmer/FMC, you use your normal BS.

Show me how the written Rules do not state that.

 BLADERIKER wrote:
As you have already posted all the rules I will point out that the "Heavy" Rule is a general rule and thus can be broken by the Skyfire Special Rule.

But only if Skyfire specifies that. There's no conflict here. Skyfire is allowing the model to fire at his normal BS and nothing is stopping it.
The normal BS for a model firing a heavy weapon when moving is 1.

As has been stated once a heavy weapon has moved short of it having a rule like relentless it will only be allowed to fire snap shots. A model that for any reason can only fire snap shots is making an illegal action if it does anything else so trying to shoot at anything other then bs 1 against the flyers is in violation of the game. All that the skyfire rule does is let you ignore the normal condition of all shooting at a flyer is snap shots unless by a model with skyfire but if said skyfire model is already forbidden from doing anything but snap shots then it can still only snap fire.

I think Grendel had the best explination here, if you skyfire overrides heavy restrictions then I can also deepstrike a skimmer in and assualt you strait away and all sorts of game breaking fun.

rigeld2 wrote:

 BLADERIKER wrote:
As you have already posted all the rules I will point out that the "Heavy" Rule is a general rule and thus can be broken by the Skyfire Special Rule.

But only if Skyfire specifies that. There's no conflict here. Skyfire is allowing the model to fire at his normal BS and nothing is stopping it.
The normal BS for a model firing a heavy weapon when moving is 1.

No it is not, go back and read the Snap Shot rule.

A model with the "Heavy" Rule is forced to fire snap shots, when moving.

Snap Shots states, that a snap shot forces the model to use BS 1 instead of its normal BS.

Thus the BS 1 from the Snap Shot is never the normal BS of the any model having to fire a snap shot.

Skyfire instructs you to use your normal BS when firing at Flyers?FMCs/Skimmers, nothing more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 grendel083 wrote:
It's the exact same argument as assaulting from Reserve from a vehicle with the Assault rule.

You can't assault because:
1). Unit arrived from Reserve,
2). Can't assault out of a Transport.

Assault vehicle removes restriction 2). but not restriction 1).
So the unit still cannot assault.
(A later FAQ clarified this)

Unit is Snap Shooting because:
1). Moved with a Heavy Weapons
2). Shooting a Flyer

Again Skyfire removes restriction 2). but not restriction 1).

Where in the written rules does it state that a Special Rule cannot override several general rules at one time? Please give correct citation.

Wow how is this argument still going?

 Imperator_Class wrote:
Wow how is this argument still going?

Because no one is reading the rules, and then they are trying to argue based on what they believe and not what is written in the FAQ/BRB.