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 Tiberius501 wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wait, how do we know there isn’t going to be rules on boyz for extra attacks or strats for it?

Based on the leaked discord and screenshots which have all been confirmed true with every new community article..

I don’t think they’ve mentioned special rules or strats. They’ve just mentioned some changes and the sub faction specific stuff. We don’t really know anything about the majority of the units, or our strats yet.

Not all strats and rules but the class specific stuff and lack of UGT they did
But I get ya.. you have hope

gungo wrote:
Goff beast snaggas are your durability. They have 6++ again, they have +1 toughness and they have str6 on charge with exploding 6s with additional hits… hopefully these are troops. I still want to see the new painboss rules to see if he adds anything better then a 6+ fnp.
I’m more concerned with moving buggies in groups they are so huge it’s hard to keep them in cohesion..

Beast Snaggas have the same toughness as any other Ork.

Well looks like all the leaks were right so far. Here’s hoping for some diamonds in the squig gak or we are getting fethed 7 Ed style. Again.

Yes there will probably be a competitive build or two. I just wanted to get excited about using a variety of my old collection. We will probably have to play the skew game still.

On plus side 675 stompa is actually playable…
And you can still get klan rules in a lord of war detachment… not that I think any clan kulturs are worth it…
Killakans are legit and maybe dreadmobs
Especially if the fw big Mek named character still has his +1 hit aura that works on dreads… that’s a lot of rokkits
Doubly so if grot mobs works still…

I suppose the Nauts shifting over to LoW at least frees up another HS slot?

Quite tempted to lean right into LoWs now; grab another 'Naut and a FW Killtank.

24 wounds makes it the same as a Knight right? I assume though it won’t have a 4++ the same though, just a lol worthy 6++ from their incredible new KFF.

I was keen on getting one soon but I may not now. :/

Madjob wrote:

gungo wrote:
Goff beast snaggas are your durability. They have 6++ again, they have +1 toughness and they have str6 on charge with exploding 6s with additional hits… hopefully these are troops. I still want to see the new painboss rules to see if he adds anything better then a 6+ fnp.
I’m more concerned with moving buggies in groups they are so huge it’s hard to keep them in cohesion..

Beast Snaggas have the same toughness as any other Ork.

I mean from what we have now

gungo wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wait, how do we know there isn’t going to be rules on boyz for extra attacks or strats for it?

Based on the leaked discord and screenshots which have all been confirmed true with every new community article..

I don’t think they’ve mentioned special rules or strats. They’ve just mentioned some changes and the sub faction specific stuff. We don’t really know anything about the majority of the units, or our strats yet.

Not all strats and rules but the class specific stuff and lack of UGT they did
But I get ya.. you have hope

Don’t take away my hope! I want to love my Orks this edition! The WAAAGH! must be heard!

BDBurrow wrote:
Honest question, how many sub-8S weapons are multi damage?

Not happy with budget duty eternal but autocannoms, non-suped up plasma, exocrenes, heavy bolters and the like.

Basically weapons made for anti-elites won't be acting like anti vehicle weapons.

I cannot quote any real math here, but I believe that the statistical average of a d6 is 3 vs 5 of 3+D3. This means all melta and equivalents are what, 75%? Deadlier? Without counting in rerolls aura and such?

+6W alone is 33% in survivability. So it's already 40% behind the powercreep. If than you count the KFF getting 17% worst, well this is all a pile of crap, eating another pile of crap.

 Nazrak wrote:
I suppose the Nauts shifting over to LoW at least frees up another HS slot?

Yeah, that's the very HS slot spared for those who wanted to field 4-6 Mek Gunz as now they need to use two slots instead of one .

 Emicrania wrote:
I cannot quote any real math here, but I believe that the statistical average of a d6 is 3 vs 5 of 3+D3. This means all melta and equivalents are what, 75%? Deadlier? Without counting in rerolls aura and such?

+6W alone is 33% in survivability. So it's already 40% behind the powercreep. If than you count the KFF getting 17% worst, well this is all a pile of crap, eating another pile of crap.

Average of d6 is 3.5. So it’s about a 40% improvement for any weapon that went from d6 to d3+3.

 Blackie wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
I suppose the Nauts shifting over to LoW at least frees up another HS slot?

Yeah, that's the very HS slot spared for those who wanted to field 4-6 Mek Gunz as now they need to use two slots instead of one .

Maybe I'm desperately searching for silver linings here, but now I've got space for a Deff Dread. Always wanted to paint one of those.

Need to make room for your new wurrchariot in your Hs slot!!!

Damage 6 with single attack claw and 24 wounds, I must say Gorkanauts sound more than OK to me. It will depend if they stay the same cost (if they cost more than they do now, mayber not...)

I own three so I can field them in a SH detachment (losing 6 CP though...), and the rest of the points can go into 30*2 boyz and a speedboss (+ whatever other character needed). This won't win me any tournament, but it could be a midly good skew list (boyz stay cap objectives but don't get too exposed either)

 hollow one wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
That said, my mind ins flip-flopping between "this is 7th all over again" and "this is DG codex all over again". I simply refuse to let myself dragged down by all this until I can actually play the codex once or twice.

Hold strong brother, rumour around the tracks is Ork codex is the final busted codex. Buggies are the business, apparently. Output from scrapjets has already been increased, so long as you're not advancing. They were already the most shooty of the lot. And lets be serious, T5 9ppm wounds on boys is already enough to get excited about. -1 AP as well? I don't need stratagems, that's already enough for me to know we're on the way up.

Scrapjets go to 3D3 shots which is an average of 6 shots. thats 2 hits a turn. That is 1.33 wounds against T5 and above. This is the fething problem with players in general, but especially GW staff. They think "OMG! 3D3 SHOTS THAT IS A LOT!" and they are right, for a Space Marine. For someone who hits half as often its garbage. This is the equivalent of a 3 shot weapon for Marines.

As far as the big shoota "buff" at half range they gain 66% percent shots, honestly its an upgrade, but it started as a turd and all they did was polish it. And what happens when you polish a turd? At best, you get 20 shots now, that is enough to do 1.48 dmg on average to a Marine. IT DOESN'T EVEN GUARANTEE A DEAD MARINE!"

I'm doing my best to stay positive here but god GW fething sucks when it comes to Orkz.

gungo wrote:
To be fair 24in shootas does make the 12in shoota half range +1 shot better but I’d still rather have reroll 1s and spam KMB or equivilant. I know the rumor says reroll 1s in melee aura is the warboss aura but I hope it’s reroll all 1s to hit.

Bad Moonz prior at 18' range averaged 60 shots and 27ish hits. With the "upgrade" and somehow getting all within 12 you now get 90 shots and average 30 hits. Situational at the absolute best, and realistically its a fething nerf.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i mean if were talking highly competitve lists what army has more than 2 options...

To put it bluntly? Marines. But they are the statistical outlier, god knows they have more units than any 2 factions combined and that is before you add in extras and chapter specific stuff.

BDBurrow wrote:
The ramshackle rules are pretty dope. But I'm guessing it comes with a hefty price hike for all our vehicles.

Last time I played a tournament I had back to back Ad-Mech players. Between the two of them they brought 15 Cognis Las-cannon Chicken Walkers. Guess how many Auto-cannons they had? Zero.

I wasn't losing vehicles and mek gunz to S7 and below, its the ridiculously OP anti-tank stuff like Melta and lascannons and the new DE weapons that were killing me.

 addnid wrote:
Damage 6 with single attack claw and 24 wounds, I must say Gorkanauts sound more than OK to me. It will depend if they stay the same cost (if they cost more than they do now, mayber not...)

I own three so I can field them in a SH detachment (losing 6 CP though...), and the rest of the points can go into 30*2 boyz and a speedboss (+ whatever other character needed). This won't win me any tournament, but it could be a midly good skew list (boyz stay cap objectives but don't get too exposed either)

Unless they gain TITANIC, it's only 3CP, right?

gungo wrote:
On plus side 675 stompa is actually playable…
And you can still get klan rules in a lord of war detachment… not that I think any clan kulturs are worth it…
Killakans are legit and maybe dreadmobs
Especially if the fw big Mek named character still has his +1 hit aura that works on dreads… that’s a lot of rokkits
Doubly so if grot mobs works still…

Anyone else notice that games workshop can't add up?

I always suspected they didn't know what points cost the stompa was and now we have proof lol

900 minus 175 is not 675 lol

Nauts going to LoW completely kills them until GW fixes the LoW slot issue.
Nobody wants to run Superheavy Detachments because 6cp is fething stupid and 3 LoWs is half or more of your list. All for only sub-par units since none of them are overly oppressive either.
But in order to run a single LoW its 1cp and sacrifice kulture rules. Thats the issue, the stupid superheavy aux detachment needs to not have that dumb penalty. Even knights feel utterly pathetic if they cant get House rules.

New ramshackle rule is fething pointless. What weapon hits a vehicle that isnt S8+ and has multidamage? All that come to mind nobody uses because for the same cost or pennies more they get an S8 version with better range/damage/ap.

Same issue i have with the transork rule: S8 is too easily spammed for it to matter. Back in 5/6th or earlier it was much harder to find S8+ outisde of melee, now its all over the damn place.

I dont see how they think these buffs are awesome. Every single thing they have released thats considered 'high power' since 9th has been S8+ and very easily spammed.
Kanz getting it at least is an interesting boost since presumably theyre still T5, often people wont wanna shoot the big guns at them since they can reliably wound them with the medium guns.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I cannot quote any real math here, but I believe that the statistical average of a d6 is 3 vs 5 of 3+D3. This means all melta and equivalents are what, 75%? Deadlier? Without counting in rerolls aura and such?

+6W alone is 33% in survivability. So it's already 40% behind the powercreep. If than you count the KFF getting 17% worst, well this is all a pile of crap, eating another pile of crap.

Average of d6 is 3.5. So it’s about a 40% improvement for any weapon that went from d6 to d3+3.

Thanks, i suck at napkins math. But confirm what i said,ALL the upgrades we are getting, are worse than the upgrades everybody else is getting. For the same price..

Yeah, it kind of shows how out of touch GW are with their own rules. S7 spam was like a 5th-6th edition thing. In 8th and especially in 9th, S8+ weapons with D3+3 or D6+2 damage is all the rage and precisely what people are spamming all over the place. I get they want to remove rolling but they could have made ramshackle way more applicable to the stuff that vehicles would actually benefit from dealing with most often.

Yup, and orks having inferior versions of the rules would be fine if we had more rules for the same price to make up for it.
But we dont. If its cheaper at all its like 2-5pts less, which means nothing in the end.
Btw thats the difference between a current Meganob and an Aggressor, and guess which one is considered a pain in the ass and the other a situationally useful unit.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yup, and orks having inferior versions of the rules would be fine if we had more rules for the same price to make up for it.
But we dont. If its cheaper at all its like 2-5pts less, which means nothing in the end.
Btw thats the difference between a current Meganob and an Aggressor, and guess which one is considered a pain in the ass and the other a situationally useful unit.

And the sad part is that the Aggressor was nerfed in their more recent incarnation too, and we can still barely keep up.

I guess we used up all the GW goodwill and "win" in the models this time around. Rules-wise somebody left a drunk grot at the typewriter again.

gungo wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
With these leaks I start being a bit concerned about orks durability. Getting +1T was supposed to make orks tougher but if KFF is reduced to 6++ and light vehicles/walkers don't act as single units once deployed the army seems way less resilient now.

Single units firing a few melta shots could now wipe entire squadrons.

Infantry and biker/cavalry models should do fine, but vehicles need some way to reduce/prevent damage now. Last thing I want is another set of rules that pushes for greentides.

Greentide is dead… no unending green tide strat, no +1 atk on 20+ models, no mob rule and turning breaking heads into a strat… there is zero incentive to use greentide and large mobs are a severe detriment.

Goff beast snaggas are your durability. They have 6++ again, they have +1 toughness and they have str6 on charge with exploding 6s with additional hits… hopefully these are troops. I still want to see the new painboss rules to see if he adds anything better then a 6+ fnp.
I’m more concerned with moving buggies in groups they are so huge it’s hard to keep them in cohesion..

This is exactly why I'm considering smaller mobs in trukks. Without green tide and the noxious auras, with a universal +1 A waaagh, and +1S on charge.

That's actually way tastier on vanilla boyz, going from S4 to the critical S5 without that skarboys strategem that favored 30 man units. S6 is lost value IMO on the Goff trait with snaggas. Big Choppas and the power snippa would gain advantage from the +1S as well, with big choppas at S8 on the charge on your nob. A goff trukk mob with regular boys could actually do some work on the charge, I feel. You could distribute this army around the board without any lost value and sprinkle in battlewagons. Advantage gained as far as unit cohesion and lost value in rank combat as well.

I would prefer beast snaggas but the other clans are extremely lame. I don't see anything that pairs particularly well with them and the only advantage is 6++ and +1S.

I'm even thinking a squad of goff nobs with big choppas would be a dirty bunch with that +1S. Even a squad of 5 with big choppas puts out 4 2D wounds on average vs PEQ with S8. They could even threaten T8.

 Grimskul wrote:


New kommandos got more expensive AND they no longer have native deep strike. Not sure how I feel about this. Stormboyz might replace them if they still have their basic deep strike move.

No +1 to charge and 11 PPM GTFOH lol

Imma make a prediction and say nobz are gonna disappear. Snaggaz are the Primaris equivalent of the nobz

They don't get 2 damage though. They just get 2 attacks with S5 -1AP choppas.

Also, if Nobz retain dual choppa, S5 -1 AP 5 attacks is still significant against 1W models.

Snaggas would be the go to IMO, if there was another clan that paired well with them, but there isn't.

id both be surprised and not surprised if nobs lose dual-choppa.
Its something that they have had in promotional art and even painted figs for ages, i've used them as 'proof' it was intended to let use use 2 of them for ages. I have quite a few modeled with dual choppas.

But, it also is something GW would totally do since for some reason orks are the only faction they actually seem to show restraint for. Except for when transitioning an old codex to a new edition i dont think orks have ever been insanely good.

Even if they didnt change in price, if they keep dual choppas im still using nobs. Now with AP1 that 5 attacks is gonna do some damage.

With just -1 AP and 5 attacks, that's an average of one wound against PEQ with dual choppa. Not too bad.

If Nobs get the power snippas, with the Goff trait that's S8 -2 AP 2D on the charge. If it's priced reasonably that would be fairly strong as well.

that i would doubt since GW has not been adding new gear to old profiles. ItS NoT MoDlEd WiTh It!

Big choppas with the Goff trait being S8 on the charge is pretty tasty.