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As a chaos player. I have always wondered.

why are there no TH and SS in the ranks of the traitor? Is it because of the game balance?

or is it because of the high level of maintenance needed for the equipment?

or are they an invention after the Horus Heresy?

Because, if CSM got everything the loyalists got plus some nice Chaos toys, they would be sad.

CSM only really get more generic Marine thingies to play with, on top of their daemon engines and whatnot.

I think that they are post-heresy inventions, like assault cannons and proper storm bolters.

TH/SS terminators are nice, but the CSM get better options (or at least more flexibility) for shooty terminators instead. And smaller starting unit size too.

Spetulhu wrote:
TH/SS terminators are nice, but the CSM get better options (or at least more flexibility) for shooty terminators instead. And smaller starting unit size too.

you must be joking.

CSM terminators make decent suicide melta squads, but nothing like a drop pod. Other than that they suck. GW just lacks imagination.

According to the HH books so far FW has released, Storm Shields are a prototype piece of wargear that the Salamanders first helped pioneer; they're the only legion so far to have 2+/3++ termies en masse.

Thunder hammer are available to almost all the traitor legions so far in the books, though in reduced quantities due to their natural preference for war.

 Blacksails wrote:
According to the HH books so far FW has released, Storm Shields are a prototype piece of wargear that the Salamanders first helped pioneer; they're the only legion so far to have 2+/3++ termies en masse.

Thunder hammer are available to almost all the traitor legions so far in the books, though in reduced quantities due to their natural preference for war.

I see. So the TH is not on the table top for game balance purposes

 kissmymom wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
According to the HH books so far FW has released, Storm Shields are a prototype piece of wargear that the Salamanders first helped pioneer; they're the only legion so far to have 2+/3++ termies en masse.

Thunder hammer are available to almost all the traitor legions so far in the books, though in reduced quantities due to their natural preference for war.

I see. So the TH is not on the table top for game balance purposes

Thunderhammers arent even that good. I would rather have a chainfist or a powerfist. But thunderhammers look cooler

 kissmymom wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
According to the HH books so far FW has released, Storm Shields are a prototype piece of wargear that the Salamanders first helped pioneer; they're the only legion so far to have 2+/3++ termies en masse.

Thunder hammer are available to almost all the traitor legions so far in the books, though in reduced quantities due to their natural preference for war.

I see. So the TH is not on the table top for game balance purposes

No, its not for balance purposes (Thunder hammers are as balanced as fists anyways), its mostly due to fluff. Most of the traitor legions didn't make use of Thunder Hammers as much as several of the loyal legions. Legions like the Sons of Horus, Alpha Legion and Night Lords preferred quick moving units and quick moving weapons, not the slow and powerful swings of a hammer.

I think the real question is why don't Grey Knight Terminators carry storm shields? With the storm bolter strapped to their forearm they would have the free hand.

 DJGietzen wrote:
I think the real question is why don't Grey Knight Terminators carry storm shields? With the storm bolter strapped to their forearm they would have the free hand.

From the earliest days of the Grey Knights they have used 2-handed nemesis force weapons (originally halberd format only). They originally had a bolt pistol with precisely 3 shots attached to the head (you had to keep track of ammo expenditure). With then first revamp of the army it was decreed that they should have storm bolters rather than piddly bolt pistols, but the size of the new weapon would totally unbalance the Nemesis weapon design, hence the wrist attachment. With the most recent revamp there has been a move to more varied close combat weapons, but still both hands are always used for the CC weapons. Its a more aggressive character than taking shields, basically, more fitting to their role as seek and destroy detachments.

No real reason. The first ever picture of a TH/SS Terminator was on a Chaos Marine IIRC.

Chaos is pretty badass with their Daemon Weapons and stuff. Besides if they ever did use a shield we all know it'd be a CSM holding up a Cultist while wielding another cultist wrapped around a big stick. There ya go, that's how a CSM makes a Thunderhammer and Storm Shield! The concussive is the Cultist on a stick exploding!

 DJGietzen wrote:
I think the real question is why don't Grey Knight Terminators carry storm shields? With the storm bolter strapped to their forearm they would have the free hand.

That is probably a balance issue. GK swords give +1 invuln in combat, SS gives 3++ so mass 2++ saves might have been considered a bad thing in 5th edition. Of course in 6th, obviously they threw caution to the wind.

 Daba wrote:
No real reason. The first ever picture of a TH/SS Terminator was on a Chaos Marine IIRC.

That is correct it was a fallen termy vs a deathwing termy, cool pic

In hh so far the only people who can have th, all hq option depending if they take a rite thst disallows it, a few termy units, dreadnoughts if I remember correctly.

Eidolan gets one too.

On a happier note khan the bloody handed (betrayer) can take gorechild as an option, fun times

 Exergy wrote:

 kissmymom wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
According to the HH books so far FW has released, Storm Shields are a prototype piece of wargear that the Salamanders first helped pioneer; they're the only legion so far to have 2+/3++ termies en masse.

Thunder hammer are available to almost all the traitor legions so far in the books, though in reduced quantities due to their natural preference for war.

I see. So the TH is not on the table top for game balance purposes

Thunderhammers arent even that good. I would rather have a chainfist or a powerfist. But thunderhammers look cooler

Wait what? Thunder hamer is the same. But against vehicle. Its +2 on the table. And stormshield is just awesome.

And not to mention the fact that termies looks so badass with TH and SS. Imagine the chaos version.

 kissmymom wrote:

Wait what? Thunder hamer is the same. But against vehicle. Its +2 on the table.

The Thunder Hammer has no additional effect on vehicles compared with a Power Fist. The only difference happens against multiwound models who aren't instantly killed.

Thunder Hammer equivalents?



Says hello.

 kissmymom wrote:

 Exergy wrote:


Thunderhammers arent even that good. I would rather have a chainfist or a powerfist. But thunderhammers look cooler

Wait what? Thunder hamer is the same. But against vehicle. Its +2 on the table.

And not to mention the fact that termies looks so badass with TH and SS. Imagine the chaos version.

A thunderhammer doesnt do much more to vehicles than a powerfist. A chainfist on the other hand is much much more powerful.

I disliked that they took away auto stun, then auto shaken and now no extra effect for the hammer on vehicles

As far as I know the CSM tend to have Powermauls or other blunt objects, which could be seen as being Thunder Hammers, for me CSM would more likely have a plethora of different Thunder Hammer like weapon varients, as with many Chaos weapons.

Because Chaos Marines are not allowed to have nice things.

Thunderhammers are for MC hunters. The concussive effects them, so any combats that last over a turn mean that fewer of your squad take damage if fighting a high I monster.

 Exergy wrote:

 DJGietzen wrote:
I think the real question is why don't Grey Knight Terminators carry storm shields? With the storm bolter strapped to their forearm they would have the free hand.

That is probably a balance issue. GK swords give +1 invuln in combat, SS gives 3++ so mass 2++ saves might have been considered a bad thing in 5th edition. Of course in 6th, obviously they threw caution to the wind.

Yep, it's all to do with game balance alone, nothing fluff-based. Grey Knight Terminators had access to Storm Shields in the 3E Daemonhunter Codex.

What the Grey Knight Terminators/Paladins should have received is their own type of unique shield that provided a lesser 4++ instead, which could be exchanged for their Storm Bolter.

In 6th they've been a lot more cautious than 5th. 5th was the piling on loads of rules and silly stuff.

6th is mostly what the imagery is, with a few units just becoming too good by accident.

 DJGietzen wrote:
I think the real question is why don't Grey Knight Terminators carry storm shields? With the storm bolter strapped to their forearm they would have the free hand.

lol they did have TH SS in codex daemon hunters....

converted my models JUST IN TIME TO LOSE THAT in codex GK's lol

now only draigo gets one...

oo ninjad above!