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What special characters in your codex do not translate well to the tabletop? What changes would you make? Example:

Commissar Yarrick. A Imperial Guard special character that is very potent in melee, very resilient & can possibly defy death. While he is unique in that he is formidable in close combat, that is rarely something Imperial Guard players are interested in doing. He costs more than most IG Leman Russ tanks & is often limited to attaching to Ogryns in order make use of his melee capabilities essentially bumping his point cost well into several hundred points.

Changes I would be interested in seeing: Considerable point cost reduction, nerf melee prowess, give him larger LD aura/unique order.

Phoenix Lords: They are only marginally better, or not better at all, than current Chapter Masters....which gives a very low value to these warriors compared to what their actual abilities should be. They should be far more capable than Chapter Masters.

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Phoenix Lords: They are only marginally better, or not better at all, than current Chapter Masters....which gives a very low value to these warriors compared to what their actual abilities should be. They should be far more capable than Chapter Masters.

They would be near impossible to balance without a massive point increase, if given stats identical to their fluff... :/ cool idea, but I dont know how they can really be fixed all that well without further breaking the codex.

The decapitator from dark eldar is my first thought.

Kharn, Dante

BTW: IMO Pheonix Lords are just fine. They die all the time in fluff, so why would they pwn Chapter Masters?

 Lobukia wrote:
Kharn, Dante

BTW: IMO Pheonix Lords are just fine. They die all the time in fluff, so why would they pwn Chapter Masters?

Because Karandras should be allowed to appear like a Lictor and snap a Master's neck.

 ductvader wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Kharn, Dante

BTW: IMO Pheonix Lords are just fine. They die all the time in fluff, so why would they pwn Chapter Masters?

Because Karandras should be allowed to appear like a Lictor and snap a Master's neck.

By that logic in Fluff the Chapter Masters should be able to resist said neck breaking, and then beat Karandras with his own scorpion claw.

Knight Commander Pask. He really isnt all that good at tank busting.

Interragator-Chaplain Asmodia

In the Dark Angels Codex, this guy seems absolutely relentless in his rage to hunt the fallen and the book pretty much makes him an absolute bada$$. I just can't find the space for him anywhere in a competive army list. Sure, I know you are going to say he has ID USR on his weapon but other than that....Sam & Belial get more bang for the buck.

Mr. Raynor

Fateweaver should be able to win each battle automatically as he already sees the future and would not fight battles he would lose.

Eldrad should get to pick his powers from all psychic powers he has access to.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Kharn, Dante

BTW: IMO Pheonix Lords are just fine. They die all the time in fluff, so why would they pwn Chapter Masters?

Because Karandras should be allowed to appear like a Lictor and snap a Master's neck.

By that logic in Fluff the Chapter Masters should be able to resist said neck breaking, and then beat Karandras with his own scorpion claw.

No.
...
...
...what?

Um...how has nobody said Lucius? He gets killed, the person who kills him should test to resist being removed as a casualty and having Lucius replace him. Each turn.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 Farseer Faenyin wrote:
Phoenix Lords: They are only marginally better, or not better at all, than current Chapter Masters....which gives a very low value to these warriors compared to what their actual abilities should be. They should be far more capable than Chapter Masters.

They would be near impossible to balance without a massive point increase, if given stats identical to their fluff... :/ cool idea, but I dont know how they can really be fixed all that well without further breaking the codex.

Yes, I agree that points would need increased heavily. But the question was just fluff versus tabletop. :-)

@Lobukia - They die in the fluff, I wouldn't say 'all the time'....could you back that up with facts? Have they died in recent history more than Chapter Masters? No, didn't think so. Also, they are in fluff dying because they only show up when desperately needed, whereas Chapter Masters show up for many more 'less important' battles where there is far less danger.

Eldar
Yriel...they just smacked him in the face and said disappear. Turn him back to his last codex incarnation and he would be decent but not great.

The pheonix lords overall are okay-ish but they really need to be able to add some support abilities. They are supposed to die but they are also supposed to shift the course of wars single handedly. Right now they have less overall impact than a spiritseer. If they had allowed their corresponding path to be scoring units then it would make them much more worthwhile.

IG
Yarrick could definitely use a pts reduction. That is all I would need because his current abilities are hilarious.

Straken would be fixed if they bring back the CC doctrine in the IG dex. His abilities just don't work with the dex.

Nork Deddog needs almost a complete redesign. Pts reductions would still not see him taken. If he could make the CCS into an orgryn CCS then he would be awesome.

CD
The Masque really needs to be an IC. Too easy to kill.

The Blue Scribes, Epidemius, and Skulltaker need access to Loci and artifacts which could really help make them worthwhile.

 Makutsu wrote:
Fateweaver should be able to win each battle automatically as he already sees the future and would not fight battles he would lose.

That aspect has always bothered me as well.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Um...how has nobody said Lucius? He gets killed, the person who kills him should test to resist being removed as a casualty and having Lucius replace him. Each turn.

Gah, I came to post this... beaten, curses!

How about Old One Eye?

In the next update he Needs It Will Not Die and EW.

Space marines. Look at what one captain can do. He and his squad change the outcome of an entire planet.

In the tabletop game, a single ork could kill him with a few lucky dice rolls.

Flying Toaster wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Um...how has nobody said Lucius? He gets killed, the person who kills him should test to resist being removed as a casualty and having Lucius replace him. Each turn.

Gah, I came to post this... beaten, curses!

This. Lucius is so far detached from the fluff it's not even funny.

Ahriman. Given how he's been searching for knowledge of sorcery for 10,000 years, he should have access to all of the psychic disciplines. I'll tentatively say Eldrad should as well, but I don't know how well that fits with his fluff. Tigerius shouldn't though. Psychic ability =/= knowledge of heretical powers.

Every psyker.

"Boy I wonder what powers I get to use today".

 ductvader wrote:
Eldrad should get to pick his powers from all psychic powers he has access to.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Kharn, Dante

BTW: IMO Pheonix Lords are just fine. They die all the time in fluff, so why would they pwn Chapter Masters?

Because Karandras should be allowed to appear like a Lictor and snap a Master's neck.

By that logic in Fluff the Chapter Masters should be able to resist said neck breaking, and then beat Karandras with his own scorpion claw.

No.
...
...
...what?

Well lets see, you have Chapter Masters going Toe to Toe with things like the Swarmlord, Snapping necks of Avatars, and overall dealing with things that' should break the Chapter Master in two, but don't.

I'm saying, when it comes to fluff, there's OP stuff everywhere.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Every psyker.

"Boy I wonder what powers I get to use today".

Or worse yet. 1/12 the time time I use any power I perils.

How the heck do the ever get through psyker school.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Kharn, Dante

BTW: IMO Phoenix Lords are just fine. They die all the time in fluff, so why would they pwn Chapter Masters?

Because Karandras should be allowed to appear like a Lictor and snap a Master's neck.

By that logic in Fluff the Chapter Masters should be able to resist said neck breaking, and then beat Karandras with his own scorpion claw.

No.
...
...
...what?

Well lets see, you have Chapter Masters going Toe to Toe with things like the Swarmlord, Snapping necks of Avatars, and overall dealing with things that' should break the Chapter Master in two, but don't.

I'm saying, when it comes to fluff, there's OP stuff everywhere.

Well that fluff is questionable at best. Mostly, it's GW pushing up SM. The Phoenix Lords are supposed to be the best of the at fighting and are immortal (lots of time to hone their skills), so they would need a boost for fluff. Chapter masters and Phoenix Lords are strong, almost un-killable by normal people, but shoot one with a titan weapon, and their dead, same as anyone.

Belial, for his points cost his weapon set is garbage. I understand you get a guaranteed deep strike with him, but his storm bolter and rending sword are garbage compared to other 200 pt HQ's including sammael, why is he not an eternal warrior?

 conker249 wrote:
The decapitator from dark eldar is my first thought.

being one of the worst choices/units in the game helps.

His rules are just unplayable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Shrike- wrote:

Flying Toaster wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Um...how has nobody said Lucius? He gets killed, the person who kills him should test to resist being removed as a casualty and having Lucius replace him. Each turn.

Gah, I came to post this... beaten, curses!

This. Lucius is so far detached from the fluff it's not even funny.

Lucius the Eternal isnt eternal in the rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:

 Makutsu wrote:
Fateweaver should be able to win each battle automatically as he already sees the future and would not fight battles he would lose.

That aspect has always bothered me as well.

but what if he knows he will lose but is losing this battle to win a larger war?

Azhek Ahriman.

Magister of the Divination temple on old Prospero. Literally the best human Divination pysker of his time, possibly even since then.
Champion to a God of magic and trickery.
10,000 years old and still kicking.
Spent most of that time travelling the galaxy for lore and artefacts.

This has been represented by absolutely no access to Divination at all. His Gods preference for subtlety and intrigue is represented by 3 explosives and a mutation ability in an army defined by being bodiless spirits.
His mastery of the psychic arts is defined solely by the ability to create explosions. His only psychic abilities of note are his Mastery level and shooting abilities, but is otherwise identical to a Tzeentch Sorcerer. He has no control over his psychic tests, Perils or the abilities he generates. He has no knowledge of magic lores beyond the typical Chaos ones.
His longevity is defined by absolutely no mutations or boons at all despite 10,000 years of Challenging on behalf of his bodyguards.

Most of the Ork special characters seem to fit in this thread. Other than ghazzy their arent very good tablewise or fluffwize

Malik_Raynor wrote:
Interragator-Chaplain Asmodia

In the Dark Angels Codex, this guy seems absolutely relentless in his rage to hunt the fallen and the book pretty much makes him an absolute bada$$. I just can't find the space for him anywhere in a competive army list. Sure, I know you are going to say he has ID USR on his weapon but other than that....Sam & Belial get more bang for the buck.

Mr. Raynor

Going to have to second this one. I am a Dark Angels player and Asmodai has always been a really cool character in the lore. His rules are a complete joke. I don't see any reason to ever take him for the points. An ID USR ap- weapon that doesn't get +1A for being used with his pistol... yippee...

I'd complain about basically all the DA heroes but I don't really want to start that, as I am trying to stop complaining and just enjoy the game as a game. (I'm also probably going to make up my own rules to use with friends, as we are both dissatisfied with our rule sets).

I would argue that most characters in the game actually do not live up to their hype, but that's probably for balance purposes haha. There are always exceptions though

- VardenV2

 VardenV2 wrote:

I would argue that most characters in the game actually do not live up to their hype, but that's probably for balance purposes haha. There are always exceptions though

Some do though.

Grey Knights in particular have some that shine as they should...when they get to combat.

Draigo, Stern, Coteaz, Crowe, Mordrak, Karamazov, and Thawn all feel like they should for their power levels.


Tyranids have some good ones too

Swarmy, Death, Doom, and the Parasite are all about what they should be.

Skulltaker also greatly matches his fluff (4th Ed book, not sure on 6th). Rending/instant death on a 4+? Oh yeah. He's the guy who gives carnifexes nightmares. Lukas the trickster is also amazing for fluff/play. My vote still goes to Lucius for worst fluff/play matchup.