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I hear alot about how Terminators are bad lately, but I was thinking about using them in a certain way. Perhaps there are better units out there to carry out this objective more cheaply, but its just an idea I wanted to float out there.

What about taking deep striking terminators, a group of 5 or so, with an assault cannon and the missile launcher as a screening unit to protect a weaker/cheap scoring unit holding an objective such as acolytes or guardsmen?

It seems to me that 3 storm bolters, an assault cannon, and a missile launcher would be able to put out quite a bit of hurt on a firewarrior squad, guardian squad, kroot squad or any other type of troop that might try to contest the objective that your weaker troops are trying to hold. You could use the Terminators as a sponge to soak up the fire for those weaker troops, even in assault with their 2+.

Am I on the right track here or just way off course? Because it seems like having a deep strikable bulky screening unit like that would be useful for almost any objective game. Just looking for someone else's two cents on the proposed situation and the use of terminators in this role.

The problem is that you can't get both the AssCan and the cyclone without the unit being ten men which puts it up at 500 points and it will not make that back. While I love my deathwing and terminators in general they just do not stand up to the weight of fire that is put out by most armies

Back when you could take 5 termies with 2 weapons like asscannons, heavy flamers or typhoon launchers, yeah they could work. Now they are a point sink.

Oh, I guess I missed the fine print there. My mistake!

I guess at this point, which choice is the better one? The Launcher or the Asscan?

Personally I like the AssCan but YMMV I have seen both used to good effect. Both are good its really up to which you prefer

I've been known to toss a 5 man terminator squad, with the AsC and a chain fist, into my lists. They do OK.

While the firepower they put out is a little lacking for the points you spend, they can project it at full effect out 24" And they do all have powerfists. Sometimes, you just need to reach out and crush some skulls. You can start them on the table, or deep strike, which is a nice option to have.

I use them as a troubleshooter unit. Mostly held in reserve, and then porting down to where I need them. Hopefully not next to plasma gunners.

It's easy to get stuck on the drawbacks of units. Just because there are flaws or hard counters to units does not mean that you see then in every match up. Or even if they are on the table, you might be able to counter them before they get to you. Tactical terminators are an expensive jack of all trades unit, which fares poorly against certain things. But there are times where they will absorb a huge amount of fire and keep rolling.

They might not be the best, but they are not useless. If you want to run with them, go for it.

like you said, other stuff can do it better. I do love the termi models though and occasionally pop in some but as above said the asscannon is usually more gone with but I prefer the cyclone. Specifically because I have the choice of missiles and can also fire the storm bolter in the same shooting. I like dropping for disruption or behind weak stuff like raiders and rhinos for some point recovery. They will die though, don't expect them to still be on the board at the end of it. deathwing do it best but others are viable, i mainly play csm and sw so free options on powerweapons instead of fists to boot.

Any unit where most of the guys are packing Power Fists is an assault unit primarily. You aren't paying 40+ points per model for a Storm Bolter or a 2+ save. Consider that a fist costs most Marine models 25 points or so.

Please quit saying Ass cannon.... It's just wrong.

Terminators suffer from lack of volume of fire and attacks. They really don't Excel at anything. They're an annoyance and bully unit. Every codex pays way too much for that 2+ save.

Indeed, reading asscan and ass cannon over and over is making it hard to take this thread seriously...and resulting in much giggling and slight face palming.

Few people take termies just to be shooty - for the same points you can get a lot more shootyness elsewhere (unsurprisingly, since you're paying significant points for those power fists, which would be wasted in a purely shooty unit).

Deep-striking/drop-podding terminators certainly have their place, either to grab and defend an objective, or cause general backline mayhem. And yes some shootyness is vital, coz they're unlikely to always have conveniently close enemies to attack, and of course can't assault in their first turn. That's why the assault cannon is popular in such units, doing a lot more damage than storm bolters, so your opponent can't simply ignore the unit.

 troa wrote:
Indeed, reading asscan and ass cannon over and over is making it hard to take this thread seriously...and resulting in much giggling and slight face palming.

Yeah, You would think Nurgle Terminators(or slaanesh :0 terminators) would own the asscannon...

In the elite slot -

Legion of the Damned are better DS support.
Sternguard are better shooting support.
Dakka Dreads are better long-range shooting support.
Vanguards are better DS support.

2+ save means little under volume of fire or precision fire and the weapons loadout is mediocre.

Legion of the damned seem like a cool option with ignores cover and relentless. I think I may actually take them instead.

 ultimentra wrote:
Legion of the damned seem like a cool option with ignores cover and relentless. I think I may actually take them instead.

Tack on a plasmagun, combi-grav, and plasma cannon for extra goodness.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
In the elite slot -

Legion of the Damned are better DS support.
Sternguard are better shooting support.
Dakka Dreads are better long-range shooting support.
Vanguards are better DS support.

agree

2+ save means little under volume of fire or precision fire and the weapons loadout is mediocre.

Just wanna point out that 2+ save doubles your rate of save against small arms fire (so things that aren't ap 2) and, almost as important, they mean that they will get saves more often (since there are fewer ap2 things than there are ap2 and 3 things) so I think it's safe to say that terminators are more than twice as durable as a normal marine. You could probably say that they are more than twice as killy as a marine.. so they should be about 30-35 points I think. As is, overcosted compared to the other options that are pretty decent. (although sternguard got upcosted in the new dex )

 Lord PoPo wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
In the elite slot -

Legion of the Damned are better DS support.
Sternguard are better shooting support.
Dakka Dreads are better long-range shooting support.
Vanguards are better DS support.

agree

2+ save means little under volume of fire or precision fire and the weapons loadout is mediocre.

Just wanna point out that 2+ save doubles your rate of save against small arms fire (so things that aren't ap 2) and, almost as important, they mean that they will get saves more often (since there are fewer ap2 things than there are ap2 and 3 things) so I think it's safe to say that terminators are more than twice as durable as a normal marine. You could probably say that they are more than twice as killy as a marine.. so they should be about 30-35 points I think. As is, overcosted compared to the other options that are pretty decent. (although sternguard got upcosted in the new dex )

A normal Marine is 14 points, a Terminator is 40. You get 3 Marines for every Terminator. WIth the new, reduced price for Tacticals (but unchanged Terminator price) Terminators are actually LESS survivable against small-arms fire AND AP2 than Tacticals per point.

until you make like 4 5++ saves as the terminators

Funnily enough, given the cheaper Terminators and more expensive tacticals of the legion list, combined with the inability to take tactical special/heavy weapons and the fact legion terminators can take a great and arguably better variety of heavy weapons, this might actually be a viable propect if you're running heresy-era marines. Then again, given the fact there are no Storm Shields in the 31st millenium, I'm not sure what else the Termies would be doing.

dieing like chickens with there heads cut off?

 raiden wrote:
until you make like 4 5++ saves as the terminators

Place Marines in cover. Now what?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 raiden wrote:
until you make like 4 5++ saves as the terminators

Place Marines in cover. Now what?

Hi, let me intoduces you to my: hell drake, tau, flamers, barrage ordnance, MELEE, psychic shooting that ignore cover, along with many other things.

 raiden wrote:
[

Hi, let me intoduces you to my: hell drake, tau, flamers, barrage ordnance, MELEE, psychic shooting that ignore cover, along with many other things.

Tau kill Terminators dead.
Flamers don't bother 3+ saves anymore than 2+ saves.
Barrage Ordnance kills through wound saturation, to which Terminators are more weak as was pointed out above.
Psychic shooting that ignores cover would also have to be AP3 to bother the marines more than terminators.

So that only matters for Heldrakes.

Ass Cannon *tiresome giggling*
Krhrhrmrmm... I mean, Assault Cannon would be my choice of the two. More anti-infantry based, meaning your Storm Bolters won't go to waste.

A cheaper option that I like is a HF, giving you an overwatch capability (you deep strike = you'll get charged). Well, the range may be a problem...

I always play at least a squad of five (CSM) : many people say they are a poor unit, but each time they appear on the battlefield, they are treated as a big threat by the others players. IMO, they are good at holding objectives or slaying opponent troops squad. But they are not an elite designed to kill another elite.

Terminator armor really should have given +1T to justify the cost. As it is there is too much stuff that can put wounds on a T4 model in such volume that they will fail with those 1's.

I tend to think of my TDA squads as single "model" with 5-10 ablative wounds, 10-30 attacks, and a bunch of shooting. Every wound the "model" loses just means a few less attacks/shots.

SJ

If your not against using allies, SW termis actually can do what you want.

You can take 10 WG and put two of them in termi armor. The other 8 leave in PA. What you do then is take a drop pod that can fit both terminators and 6 of the PA guys. You then part out one WG to the compulsory troop choice and the other to another troop choice or long fang squads.

Its a lot cheaper points wise and you still have the exact same firepower you were looking for. If your willing to spend a little extra you can stick some combi weapons on the PA guys for some extra alpha strike.

I kind of like using termies this way. Drop em in, shoot something right dead, then get charged. I can't think of a finer way to get Termies into the fray. Unless you wanna chop off your arm and sell it to the black market and take a Land Raider...

Here is a question... the Dreadclaw, FW CSM drop pod. Says in the IA book that it works just like a normal drop pod, does this mean it gets the handy little guidance system too? IA is kinda vague on the subject...

Sternguard do the drop->Shoot->assault better, with 2A base and infinitely better guns.

Vanguards do the job as well if you stock them up with Grav pistols and hit "undo" on an enemy MC.