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updated 7:56 AM EST 12.24.13
Queen pardons British code-breaker Turing
By Jethro Mullen, CNN
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(CNN) - Alan Turing, a British code-breaker during World War II who was later subjected to chemical castration for homosexual activity, has received a royal pardon nearly 60 years after he committed suicide.
Turing was best known for developing the Bombe, a code-breaking machine that deciphered messages encoded by German machines. His work is considered by many to have helped change the course of the war and save thousands of lives.
"Dr. Turing deserves to be remembered and recognized for his fantastic contribution to the war effort and his legacy to science," British Justice Secretary Chris Grayling said in a statement Tuesday. "A pardon from the Queen is a fitting tribute to an exceptional man."
It was a bloody disgrace what happened to that man.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Should have been done years ago, preferably while he was still alive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/24 20:08:20
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
Thank goodness this kind of thing couldn't happen with a modern government! ...
"So, do please come along when we're promoting something new and need photos for the facebook page or to send to our regional manager, do please engage in our gaming when we're pushing something specific hard and need to get the little kiddies drifting past to want to come in an see what all the fuss is about. But otherwise, stay the feth out, you smelly, antisocial bastards, because we're scared you are going to say something that goes against our mantra of absolute devotion to the corporate motherland and we actually perceive any of you who've been gaming more than a year to be a hostile entity as you've been exposed to the internet and 'dangerous ideas'. " - MeanGreenStompa
"Then someone mentions Infinity and everyone ignores it because no one really plays it." - nkelsch
If you pardon Turing you must pardon every other Gay or bisexual man jailed for the same activity.
I agree, they should do this.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Mr. Burning wrote: Pardoned for being charged with an as then legitimate criminal offence.
If you pardon Turing you must pardon every other Gay or bisexual man jailed for the same activity.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tannhauser42 wrote: Should have been done years ago, preferably while he was still alive.
I lol'd? what your serious?
Yes, I am serious.
Not every law ever written has been a just and fair law.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
A step on the right path is still a step on the right path, otherwise you just continue going down the wrong path.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
Better late than never I suppose, and yes, this pardon should extend to all people persecuted in such a manner.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/26 02:15:22
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Turing was a special case, someone who had done so much for his country and the world.
We must accept that times change. Today homosexuality is ok, back then it was not, go back four more generations and it was unthinkable for women to vote, go back a couple more centuries and it was acceptable to keep blacks as slaves.
An enlightened and forward thinking person might well be a bigot to future generations. There is no cause to self flagellate over moral actions of the past a current generation thinks wrong. It happens societies change.
There is no need for further pardons or apologies, at the time it was illegal to be a practicing homosexual, and that law was well supported.
We dont need revisionism, its unhealthy, understand moral actions of a time as of its time without trying to reassess them with generations of hindsight.
American posters here might have good opinions of Thomas Jefferson, and they would be right to do so, he was an extraordinary man and a credit to the feldgling United States. Not only was he a polymath but also a humanitarian who acted firmly towards developing democratic principles, he also kept black slaves. He was ok with that as was society of its time. So we should be ok with it also.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Does this line of thinking change when considering the recent pardoning of the young men who were shot for cowardice during WW1?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/26 04:21:54
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Those who were shell shocked and afterwards were executed when they could continue to participate were pardoned.
Deserters who were caught were not.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Orlanth wrote: Turing was a special case, someone who had done so much for his country and the world.
We must accept that times change. Today homosexuality is ok, back then it was not, go back four more generations and it was unthinkable for women to vote, go back a couple more centuries and it was acceptable to keep blacks as slaves.
An enlightened and forward thinking person might well be a bigot to future generations. There is no cause to self flagellate over moral actions of the past a current generation thinks wrong. It happens societies change.
There is no need for further pardons or apologies, at the time it was illegal to be a practicing homosexual, and that law was well supported.
We dont need revisionism, its unhealthy, understand moral actions of a time as of its time without trying to reassess them with generations of hindsight.
American posters here might have good opinions of Thomas Jefferson, and they would be right to do so, he was an extraordinary man and a credit to the feldgling United States. Not only was he a polymath but also a humanitarian who acted firmly towards developing democratic principles, he also kept black slaves. He was ok with that as was society of its time. So we should be ok with it also.
Very wise post. Way to many people get wrapped up in the sins of the past. We were not the ones making them, so as you say, the self-flagellation over them is pointless. All we can do is strive to not repeat them.
Those who were shell shocked and afterwards were executed when they could continue to participate were pardoned.
Deserters who were caught were not.
No one was executed for shell shock. All were executed for desertion, some of which were deemed, in hindsight, to be caused by PTSD, and excused for it.
Modern medicine and sensibilities understand PTSD is a real affliction and not simply cowardice = revisionism and apologising for the the past A-OK.
Modern medicine and sensibilities understand homosexuality is another facet of human existence and not simply indecency = well, they weren't wrong by the standards of the time, so...
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Those who were shell shocked and afterwards were executed when they could continue to participate were pardoned.
Deserters who were caught were not.
No one was executed for shell shock. All were executed for desertion, some of which were deemed, in hindsight, to be caused by PTSD, and excused for it.
Modern medicine and sensibilities understand PTSD is a real affliction and not simply cowardice = revisionism and apologising for the the past A-OK.
Modern medicine and sensibilities understand homosexuality is another facet of human existence and not simply indecency = well, they weren't wrong by the standards of the time, so...
I think you have misunderstood the point.
People were executed because due to shellshock they refused to get back in the trenches, and were thus shot for cowardice. They were pardoned, and rightly so.
Others of sound mind who decided to just run away from the front and were caught and shot for desertion have had no pardon. The decision not to issue pardon was also correct, eveb if it is now acknowledged that the campaign on the western front should not have been fought, or continued..
Automatically Appended Next Post: I will park this here:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/26 21:14:12
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
If you pardon Turing you must pardon every other Gay or bisexual man jailed for the same activity.
I agree, they should do this.
Agreed. Pardon them all. Whats the problem?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Nope, sorry I can't agree with this decision. It a pointless act of revisionism. The law that condemned Turing was a stupid and malicious one that was quite rightly removed long ago but the simple fact of the matter is that Turning broke the law as it stood at that time.
Furthermore it sets a double standard whereby people can be let off for breaking the law if that are considered to be noteworthy. What of the people also found guilty of breaking laws homosexuality who weren't household names for their contributions to the country? Do they get to be pardoned too, or do the laws apply to them but not Turing?
Pardons should be reserved for when new evidence proves an individual was innocent (or casts reasonable doubt on their guilt) they shouldn't be used simply because we decide a law was on reflection a bad idea.
"And if we've learnt anything over the past 1000 mile retreat it's that Russian agriculture is in dire need of mechanisation!"
Those who were shell shocked and afterwards were executed when they could continue to participate were pardoned.
Deserters who were caught were not.
No one was executed for shell shock. All were executed for desertion, some of which were deemed, in hindsight, to be caused by PTSD, and excused for it.
Modern medicine and sensibilities understand PTSD is a real affliction and not simply cowardice = revisionism and apologising for the the past A-OK.
Modern medicine and sensibilities understand homosexuality is another facet of human existence and not simply indecency = well, they weren't wrong by the standards of the time, so...
I think you have misunderstood the point.
People were executed because due to shellshock they refused to get back in the trenches, and were thus shot for cowardice. They were pardoned, and rightly so.
Others of sound mind who decided to just run away from the front and were caught and shot for desertion have had no pardon. The decision not to issue pardon was also correct, eveb if it is now acknowledged that the campaign on the western front should not have been fought, or continued..
Okay, I believe we are somewhere on the same page here.
Of all the men shot for desertion, some were excused posthumously due to an advancement of our understanding of human nature and morality.
All of those men convicted of desertion which was, on reflection, considered unjust, were pardoned. Rightly so.
I believe of all those men convicted of gross indecency, some convictions should, on reflection, be considered unjust and excused based on an advancement of our understanding of human nature and morality.
Pardoning Alan Turing is just a start.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
