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2012/05/16 11:59:26
Subject: Re:Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2012/05/16 12:03:40
Subject: Re:Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
‘There seems little point in introductions,’ Omegon said. ‘We all know who we are.’
Auguramus seemed vaguely amused. ‘I thought you all called yourselves “Alpharius”,’ he said, his microvox held to his throat.
‘Times change,’ Omegon replied coldly. No one made any further comment.
Strikes me, along with the actions in the tale, that there is a split in the Legion ( or at least between "The twins" with regards to what is the correct way forwards.
.. Omegon's action ultimately t'would seem freeing up the White Scars so they can get to Terra and therefore fight in the siege.
I'm still unsure as to exactly what the suit of armour means, especially the very specific reference to it being
To the casual eye, it was plain and unadorned.
.. to the casual eye...? The inference being therefore that to a non casual eye... say an Astartes or a Primarch there might be clues or indicators there ?
Spoiler:
Yeah, that was one of the impressions I got from the story as well, but not too strongly - particularly from the closing discourse between Alpharius and Omegon not really striking me as revealing too much. Though when they found out the Thunderhawk wasn't coming to pick them up, I originally thought Alpharius had intervened and left Omegon there.
I would quite like this direction with the Legion to be honest, it always surprised me A) how much Alpharius and Omegon agreed on things & thought so alike, when all their brothers are at each others throats etc. and B) that Alpharius seems like the overall head honcho, despite them being twins.
I didn't know what to think about the armour thing either, I wonder if there's any significance to the colour of the armour not being stated and why there was so much emphasis on it being his "other" suit.
I like all the intrigue (and the Legion as a whole) surrounding the Alpha Legion, but I do fear BL may be keeping their cards too close to their chest here and leaving the reader in the dark as to their motives a bit too much? I wonder if it would work better if we saw how they were heading in certain directions, rather than being left to wonder what directions they may be heading in...
I also liked how - despite Alpharius and Omegon seemingly being slightly inferior to their brothers, physically, due to the 'shared resources'/twins part - the abilities of a Primarch was kept consistent; when 'Omegon' was shot in the stomach, I thought it was strange how much of an injury it caused considering the previous descriptions of Primarchs suffering inordinate amount of damage. This raised my suspicions as to who 'Omegon' was, so i was relieved when it turned out to be Ranko (though I didn't like that he died, particularly due to his role within the Legion) - it was nice to see consistency portrayed in the abilities of primarchs here.
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
2012/05/16 16:05:00
Subject: Re:Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
reds8n wrote: Don't take much to send an email eh ?
I'm already regretting my decision to be flippant in my competition answer and declare the XIII Legion's primarch's name to be "Rubbity Gwillimon, mightiest of all the Digimon"...
"I reached down through my trousers, and groped for something concealed in my sock... it was my foot."
I lurk, therefore I am. DOOM DOLPHINS!
d-USA wrote: "Somewhere is a creepy old man on an assembly line, putting together hobby knives, chanting evil invocations and curses while muttering "Thumbs! Thumbs for the Thumb God!"
2012/05/16 16:09:24
Subject: Re:Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
warboss wrote:I just finished Legion of the Damned and frankly was quite disappointed. The first third of the novel read like some weird torture Marine porn (not surprising once I realized that it was the same author as Redemption Corps) and, more importantly, ... *minor spoiler*
Spoiler:
the namesake of the book, the Legion of the Damned, don't show up in any meaningful way till the last 30 pages of the 400pg book. It frankly felt like the title should have been "The moody band of Excruciator Marines with a special guest appearance by the Legion of the Damned". The parts where the legion is actually present is enjoyable as is the "twist" at the end regarding the planet's populace but the first 370 pages felt like you were self flagellating along with the characters.
You probably didn't like the fact that Prospero Burns actually had little to do with the actual burning of Prospero, too.
Actually I did but funny either way. I think this story would have been better suited for a short story in one of the compilation book as only the last 50 pages really mattered. Prospero Burns felt like a complete and involved story IMO. Eh, I think I just have to remember to simply skip Rob Sanders novels in the future.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/16 16:10:24
2012/05/18 06:41:16
Subject: Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
Decided to give Atlas Infernal a go and I'm surprised that our resident fluff nazis haven't raged on this one yet. So far I've encountered a Chimera with doors on the side, Krieg horses that show fear and a Krieg commander by the name of MacGrellan. I'm beginning to think that this is a poor follow up choice to Void Stalker.
Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2012/05/18 12:40:53
Subject: Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
warboss wrote: Eh, I think I just have to remember to simply skip Rob Sanders novels in the future.
Well that doesn't sound like an overreaction at all, especially considering that avatar of yours.
That's about as valid a comment as me deciding that you're a simpleton based on your crudely hand drawn sketch avatar. What do you find so unreasonable about a person reading both the available books by an author, not liking either one, and deciding that they should just not read that author's future works?
2012/05/18 13:09:46
Subject: Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
That's about as valid a comment as me deciding that you're a simpleton based on your crudely hand drawn sketch avatar. What do you find so unreasonable about a person reading both the available books by an author, not liking either one, and deciding that they should just not read that author's future works?
Haha..
That could also be a reason not to read Andy Chambers' new book, as you thought the 2nd edition Nid codex was too powerful?
I had the same experience with Neil Reynolds and his Word Bearer books, which were probably my least favourite BL books at the time. Although a few years have passed since then, and I heard that he is writing a new Heresy novel so I may wait to see what kind of feedback that one gets before I buy it (being reluctant to miss any book in the series).
I guess the issue is that a lot of the BL guys have come from the games development side of GW. While they are no doubt intelligent, it doesn't necessarily follow that they can put a good story together or even write well. Gav Thorpe's stuff (with the exception of that later Dark Angels book, although that may have been the subject matter) has improved a great deal over the years I feel. I'm not sure if that is the case with Rob Sanders and if he had any kind of writing resume before he came to BL?
I've got to admit, I didn't particularly enjoy 'Atlas Infernal' myself.
I do realise the Dr Who similarities, but then, I'm not a Dr Who fan, so it's the same issues.
"Yay, I'm awesome and I can do anything by pulling it out of my rear end.... Until, for some reason, I can't due to the plot or angst requiring it for ridiculous reason." It really was not my cup of tea.
On the other hand 'The Iron Within' (from Age of Darkness) was one of favourite short stories and thoroughly enjoyable.
2012/05/18 13:26:08
Subject: Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
Pacific wrote:That could also be a reason not to read Andy Chambers' new book, as you thought the 2nd edition Nid codex was too powerful?
Lol, except that they're two completely different types of books and I don't expect great text book authors to be mind blowing crime novelists either! Besides, I only started playing in 3rd edition so clearly his contributions to the old Space Wolf codex would be the offending issue!
Ironically, Gav Thorpe was one of my least favorite codex writers back in 3rd edition and I really didn't like the storytelling and style in his IG book. He got better though with the DA and is actually quite good IMO with his most recent Eldar Path series.
2012/05/18 14:26:04
Subject: Re:Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2012/05/18 14:34:26
Subject: Re:Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
BrookM wrote:Decided to give Atlas Infernal a go and I'm surprised that our resident fluff nazis haven't raged on this one yet. So far I've encountered a Chimera with doors on the side, Krieg horses that show fear and a Krieg commander by the name of MacGrellan. I'm beginning to think that this is a poor follow up choice to Void Stalker.
I loved atlas infernal. It was wacky, good fun. It was also nice to see Ahriman not be a crazy nutcase like he's been portrayed in the past.
Although, i don't recall Krieg horses or a commander....
2012/05/18 15:11:00
Subject: Re:Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
BrookM wrote:Decided to give Atlas Infernal a go and I'm surprised that our resident fluff nazis haven't raged on this one yet. So far I've encountered a Chimera with doors on the side, Krieg horses that show fear and a Krieg commander by the name of MacGrellan. I'm beginning to think that this is a poor follow up choice to Void Stalker.
There's a reason I haven't raged on it.
I read the novella, "Necessary Evil" leading up to it--and I also read "Redemption Corps".
Suffice to say--Rob Sanders is on The List.
2012/05/19 20:56:06
Subject: Re:Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
BrookM wrote:Decided to give Atlas Infernal a go and I'm surprised that our resident fluff nazis haven't raged on this one yet. So far I've encountered a Chimera with doors on the side, Krieg horses that show fear and a Krieg commander by the name of MacGrellan. I'm beginning to think that this is a poor follow up choice to Void Stalker.
There's a reason I haven't raged on it.
I read the novella, "Necessary Evil" leading up to it--and I also read "Redemption Corps".
Suffice to say--Rob Sanders is on The List.
Same here, though I liked his HH Iron Warriors short, which while long and winding, was enjoyable. I've ditched it in favour of non-40k reading material, hello Neuromancer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/19 20:56:30
Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2012/05/19 21:01:33
Subject: Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
2012/05/19 21:12:38
Subject: Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
2012/05/19 21:43:58
Subject: Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
Just finished Void Stalker. In line with what everyone else is saying: AWESOME.
AD-B is at-least level with Dan Abnett as much current favourite BL-writers and judging by their blogs etc. they're both sound guys too.
Next on my reading list: Gildar Rift.
Void Stalker thoughts:
Spoiler:
I think the guy that Xarl killed/killed Xarl is definitely not in Terminator Armour; it never mentions it as being Terminator Armour, whilst 1st claw initially managed to push him over, something that AD-B later states (in the catacombs) cannot be done due to gyro-stablisers or some-such on Terminator Armour.
I think the point about Termies being unable to be pushed over was quite a nice, subtle nod and clarification for the fans/gamers that go on about Termies being unable to get up if they're pushed over. I think it was kind of like how in Deliverance Lost Gav Thorpe went into some detail about the size of the Raven Guard at various times, as these are things fans like to know and commonly discuss.
If Talos the 2nd is Decimus, then where was #9? I wonder if Variel didn't get Octavia's son and presuming he would be #9, Talos the 2nd was named as #10?
I really liked the ending to Void Stalker, very satisfying and nice for all the characters to get send-offs in one way or another (and not always in fair ways (Uzas), as befits the Night Lords), although obviously I was disappointed to see it end!
A couple of things did irk me though:
1. How the frack did Lucoryphus survive? He seemed pretty f***ing dead at the end.
2. The references to the 13th Black Crusade kind of bugged me as we already know it doesn't quite go like that. ADB did a great job of giving Abaddon some respect/viable image (and I would love him to do a Warmaster series) and we know he did a pretty damn good job in the 13th Black Crusade, but we also know that it didn't leave the Traitor Astartes free to pour forth from the EoT and the Night Lords didn't rip the Eldar a new one (yet at least).
I wonder if it would've been better to reference it to the 14th Black Crusade, as Abaddon's final push and events yet to happen?
Alpharius wrote:
Just Dave wrote:Yeah, its the Alpha Legion one in the Primarchs.
The Jury is mostly still out on that one though.
It all depends on where we go with it.
I'm quite liking where they're going with it personally, but we'll see yet...
"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of." - Roboute Guilliman
"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now." - Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
2012/05/21 12:10:38
Subject: Re:Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
Same here, though I liked his HH Iron Warriors short, which while long and winding, was enjoyable. I've ditched it in favour of non-40k reading material, hello Neuromancer.
Neuromancer=Awesome to the power of ten.
If you can find it get Mozart in Mirrorshades as well
IIRC "Nonus", ie the ninth servant/slave is the human guy who is in the 2nd book. Killed towards the end IIRC.
Hence why the son ( assuming it is him) is Decimus/the 10th one.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2012/05/21 12:38:03
Subject: Re:Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
Just Dave, regarding the 13th Black Crusade, this is my understanding of it..
Spoiler:
Most of the background material up until this point has just revolved around it being forthcoming. There is one extract in the Chaos codex that talks about '12 attempts' by Abbaddon all leading up to that point - the stealing of the Pylons, etc. I don't have any of the books with me now, but I'm sure there is plenty of reference to it. As far as I know, the 13th Crusade has always been the one that will either save or break the Imperium - the End of Times, the Randadanra (sp?), the 'wolf time' etc. That moment just beyond the remit of 40k, 2 minutes to midnight and the end of humankind, that we will never get to see
The only 'official' information about the 13th Crusade was when GW ran their 'Eye of Terror' campaign. At the time Andy Chambers had said (yes it was that long ago) that whatever the result of the worldwide campaign, there would be consequences for the actual game universe of 40k. However, as the campaign progressed, it became obvious that the side of 'disorder' were going to win. There are some pretty detailed accounts of what happened during the campaign which you can find with a google search, but what followed was GW basically saying, "erm, yes we will change the background setting". But ultimately, apart from some really ambiguous comments about the effects of the campaign (which I seem to remember as "Yes Abbaddon won, but he, erm, decided to go back to the EoT to plan something even more sinister! Yes, that's right! ") It was a bit of a cop-out to be honest, and I remember a lot of angry talk at the time. But, in the larger scheme of things I can understand GW not wanting to do a 'White Wolf' and end up killing off their game universe with an ill-advised plot progression, which would have essentially shattered the central premises and ethos of the 40k universe.
Interestingly, I wonder if ADB was referencing the EoT campaign with the story of Void Stalker, or it was just circumstance? In the EoT campaign, just about the only 'order' faction that got their act together (and had a net victory) were the Eldar. Ironically, considering their campaign faction label, the other forces of 'Order' were almost comical in their complete inability to play in an organised manner. In Void Stalker, the reason that Ulthwe are trying to kill Talos and his warband is because their farseers have forseen the NL being the doom of their craftworld. In that future, the Eldar form an alliance with the Imperium during the 13th Crusade and help to stop Abbaddon. Throughout the books Talos talks of returning the NL to their former glory - not just meaningless pirating and plundering, but in helping to bring the Imperium to its knees. He ultimately finds out that they can indeed accomplish this through their support of Abbaddon, or at least Talos' 'successor' does. The book ends on the cusp of the 'End of times' - perhaps more surely than any other BL title that has ever been written, and in that regard the book has a massively important ending (either good or bad, depending on how you look at it! )
That's just my take on it anyway! It was a wonderful book in any case, I think that series stands as a jewel in the crown of BL releases over the past few years.
Part of the reason why the EoT campaign was such a clusterfeth was because Cadia had fallen but wait, what's the next hot codex release? Codex: Cadians Imperial Guard! Well gak, too late to crank out other plastics now eh?
Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
2012/05/21 14:09:38
Subject: Black Library News & Rumours Thread III, that awkward third title.
Just Dave wrote:Just finished Void Stalker. In line with what everyone else is saying: AWESOME.
AD-B is at-least level with Dan Abnett as much current favourite BL-writers and judging by their blogs etc. they're both sound guys too.
Next on my reading list: Gildar Rift.
Void Stalker thoughts:
Spoiler:
I think the guy that Xarl killed/killed Xarl is definitely not in Terminator Armour; it never mentions it as being Terminator Armour, whilst 1st claw initially managed to push him over, something that AD-B later states (in the catacombs) cannot be done due to gyro-stablisers or some-such on Terminator Armour.
I think the point about Termies being unable to be pushed over was quite a nice, subtle nod and clarification for the fans/gamers that go on about Termies being unable to get up if they're pushed over. I think it was kind of like how in Deliverance Lost Gav Thorpe went into some detail about the size of the Raven Guard at various times, as these are things fans like to know and commonly discuss.
If Talos the 2nd is Decimus, then where was #9? I wonder if Variel didn't get Octavia's son and presuming he would be #9, Talos the 2nd was named as #10?
I really liked the ending to Void Stalker, very satisfying and nice for all the characters to get send-offs in one way or another (and not always in fair ways (Uzas), as befits the Night Lords), although obviously I was disappointed to see it end!
A couple of things did irk me though:
1. How the frack did Lucoryphus survive? He seemed pretty f***ing dead at the end.
2. The references to the 13th Black Crusade kind of bugged me as we already know it doesn't quite go like that. ADB did a great job of giving Abaddon some respect/viable image (and I would love him to do a Warmaster series) and we know he did a pretty damn good job in the 13th Black Crusade, but we also know that it didn't leave the Traitor Astartes free to pour forth from the EoT and the Night Lords didn't rip the Eldar a new one (yet at least).
I wonder if it would've been better to reference it to the 14th Black Crusade, as Abaddon's final push and events yet to happen?
I just finished Void Stalker as well. The three books in the series are the best pieces of work I have read in a long time. Maybe ever. So on point.
The reference below is in regards to the ending and plot of Void Stalker so do not open the spoiler if you have not finished it. It is more my thoughts and feelings then actuall detailed accounts, but still would ruin it if you havent read it.
Spoiler:
I really really loved rooting for the NL in this last book. Throughout the series they are underdogs and that aspect, along with the indepth characters, had me abosolutly love rooting for them. So, I was genuinely upset when they all died. I knew it was going to end something like the way it did. But I was carefully to read every word until it did. Deep down I wanted them to walk away triumphant, I wanted Talos to spit on the Eldar witch, jump on the gunship and bounce out of there with all of first claw that was left.
I truly think that’s why I love so many of the Chaos novels. And here I am talking about books other then the NL trilogy. In so many of the books Chaos are portrayed as under-dogs with little to no chance to win. Then they almost win. And a lot of their wins are more just another lease on the characters life, not a grand epic victory. Yet you get up off your reading chair and fist punch the air in front of you cause you are so absolutely stoked about what just unfolded before your eyes.
Void Stalker kept me so enthralled the whole time. I was just rooting for these awesome unique characters that in the grand scheme of the 40K universe are such under-dogs. And I want them to win out so badly. Maybe it’s the way ABD made me care about the characters so much.
When all is said and done. I dont know if I would have loved the book so much if first claw did chief up, hack some Eldar and get away. ADB ended each characters life in a way where I don’t know if any NL character will compare to them enough for me to read and enjoy another book about the Nigh Lords.
(although I think I would pick any reading on Octavia’s little Talos Jr. Just to see if the Nigh lords get a taste of graduating from the most epic underdogs in the 40k universe. Could be very rad if written right.)
Dont know if I am going to be able to dive right back into Archatect Of Fate and really need a good summer read. I would love some suggestions. I am really really into the 40K universe, WHF doesnt really do it for me. If anyone has a book they have been absolutely excited about and really egar to tell someone to read, i would love to hear about it.
Fair Tides,
"Help me seek the truth that lie behind the stars"
-Lorgar
