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Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut




gungo wrote:
To be positive on this warboss on bike is pretty good now (even better if we can get cloud of smoke via faq 2.0).

Also beast snagga units are unexpectedly better by changing the beast snagga ability to +1 to wound instead of another +1 to hit they are now (including units like Killrig) much better at killing monsters and vehicles.


Monster Hunter always only added one to the wound roll. It was clarified that it now only lasts for a phase. The beast snagga trait which gives +1 to hit against vehicles and monsters hasn't changed.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 kingbbobb wrote:
But there are no rules stating attacks scoring 2 hits can't generate additional attacks.

Unless I am remembering wrong. Which is possible


I think the same FAQ that nerfed the drukhari shredder succubus also stated that extra hits can't generate extra attacks. But it doesn't really matter now.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




CaptainO wrote:
gungo wrote:
To be positive on this warboss on bike is pretty good now (even better if we can get cloud of smoke via faq 2.0).

Also beast snagga units are unexpectedly better by changing the beast snagga ability to +1 to wound instead of another +1 to hit they are now (including units like Killrig) much better at killing monsters and vehicles.


Monster Hunter always only added one to the wound roll. It was clarified that it now only lasts for a phase. The beast snagga trait which gives +1 to hit against vehicles and monsters hasn't changed.

Well that sucks :p
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






Seems like overall the only things that really came out positively for this FAQ is the Warboss on Warbike. Everything else is middling (specialist lads can't go on battlewagons/other transports besides trukks), or unaddressed as others have already mentioned.

This is why I've stopped buying physical copies of GW books lol. The lack of quality control is really getting out of hand.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:
Well, at least GW still manages to surprise me.

- BBK and goff interaction was not ruled according to already existing RAW, but can now trigger extra attacks from the additional hits you got.
- Specialist mobs can only ride trukks. Any other specialist mob transport can't carry anything but flash gits
- Biker nobz continue down the road of getting soft-squatted. Stop using your perfectly fine models and buy squig hogs you gits! Biker nobz also are neither NOBZ nor MOB, so mob rule doesn't do gak for them. You can't even use them to keep your bikers in line.
- Warboss on warbike lost the ability to break heads, both as ability and stratagem
- Grot tanks, big trakks and kannonwagon gained 'ere we go


I mean kaptain badrukk can ride specialist transports and share in that awesome +1 to hit :p
If he wasn’t ANOTHER warboss he be a good addon for your second HQ.
Edit: I’m wrong the wording is OR so trukk boyz ride alone!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 10:51:59


 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

 Jidmah wrote:
 kingbbobb wrote:
But there are no rules stating attacks scoring 2 hits can't generate additional attacks.

Unless I am remembering wrong. Which is possible


I think the same FAQ that nerfed the drukhari shredder succubus also stated that extra hits can't generate extra attacks. But it doesn't really matter now.


I definitely am not a fountain of knowledge when it comes to drukhari but...the Rare rule was "ATTACKS THAT MAKE MULTIPLE HIT ROLLS"

I think it was directed at COMPETITIVE EDGE AND Razorflails - Each time an attack is made with this weapon, make 2 hit rolls instead of 1.

The druki player would start with say 5 base attacks get 10 with the flail and then fail to damage - and then start again via comptetative edge with the10 failed attacks and get 20 attacks with the flail - this last part was what was stopped by the faq

But these are all additional attacks/hit rolls, where as goffs are additional hits which is why a FAQ was needed..
And it makes it equivalent to Drukhari now, the goff additional hits count towards BBK when they fail but when rolling BBK goffs don't generate more additional Hits on 6's - similar to drukhari (but not the same)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/14 18:56:57


SMASH  
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

 Grimskul wrote:
Seems like overall the only things that really came out positively for this FAQ is the Warboss on Warbike. Everything else is middling (specialist lads can't go on battlewagons/other transports besides trukks), or unaddressed as others have already mentioned.


Oh you ungreatful grot! Few hours earlier, trukkboyz was not able to hop in to the trukk!

And Kannonwagon gots the ramshackle. Also small gain.

9000pt and one Ad Mech T-shirt 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I mean at this point I’d rather take orrible gitz Gretchin then 160pt boy unit that won’t let anyone else use the transport.

I mean I can take min squad orrible gits and 10x kommando unit w pk for the same cost and get a much stronger unit that still benefits from klan traits with its own special rules and can still first turn charge!.

It also causes me to no longer want to take the big Mek w relic Gun as a second HQ as I’m not buying a transport just for that guy who was marginally okay.

This list is the best I got after faq. (Probably better without any nob on squigs and just taking 3x squig riders and 10x kommandos but I don’t want to buy another box)
Spoiler:


Battalion- klan: Goff
Beastboss on squig- warlord trait:Brutal but kunnin, relic1:headwompa choppa
Painboss- relic2:supa cybork, bigboss trait:big gob -2cp

Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig
Beastsnagga x10- on Killrig
Gretchin- orrible gitz

5x Kommandos- (nob w/pk)

3x squigriders
3x squigriders
Nob on smasha squig
Nob on smasha squig

Killrig- frazzle, spirit of gork
Killrig- frazzle, squiggly curse

Outrider-deathskulls -3cp
Warboss on bike- relic3:killaklaw, bigboss trait:ard as nails, -2cp

5x kommandos-obj secured (nob w/pk)
5x kommandos-obj secured (nob w/pk)

3x scrapjet
1x squigbuggy-nitro squig
1x squigbuggy
1x squigbuggy

5cp left over

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 10:53:14


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






The trukk still doesn't gain Trukkboyz

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






Also big mek in mega armour didn’t get his movement bumped up to 5 did he ?

Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Nope.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






I guess an ork needs to move slowly to take a careful aim, and thus get BS4

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 08:08:05


Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




also the kill rigs stikka got nerfed. The stikka now needs to do damage to unlock its "stuck to 12" movement from the rig" ability, before it needed just to hit and doesnt work on aircraft anymore

question about warbosses/speedbosses... so you can have only one per detachement right? so can't take a warboss and a speedboss in one detachment right?

dont see how orks will ever field only one detachment... good part is, our strats are meh either way... so we are not really dependent on CP

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 12:28:42


 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






RedNoak wrote:
also the kill rigs stikka got nerfed. The stikka now needs to do damage to unlock its "stuck to 12" movement from the rig" ability, before it needed just to hit

question about warbosses/speedbosses... so you can have only one per detachement right? so can't take a warboss and a speedboss in one detachment right?

dont see how orks will ever field only one detachment... good part is, our strats are meh either way... so we are not really dependent on CP


You can still only have 1 per detachment, yes.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






RedNoak wrote:
dont see how orks will ever field only one detachment... good part is, our strats are meh either way... so we are not really dependent on CP


Agree. It seems like a no-brainer to picking a patrol for free as you first detachment with one tax unit and then just add outrider, patrol, SHA and/or supreme command to field whatever the hell you want. The CP costs are completely offset by being able to bring more combat monsters, clans better suited to your units, specialist mobs and not having to bring boyz or gretchin.

What feels odd is that I'm completely fine with that.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




yeah its just a bummer about the warbosses... i normally play freebootaz so on top of that every unit not in a freeboota detatchment is a decreament to the army anyways, u'll need to take a speedboss as your warlord. that means
a) either throwing away further cp due to a patrol not beeing enough to field all the units... or
b) paying extra point for more tax units to field a battalion...

furthermore had my first game with the squigosaur (mantle with BbK) and i really like the guy, but i cant field my beloved manboss with ard as nails and cybork next to him or the speedboss

we have so many good warboss choices... its hard to pick

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 13:20:20


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






You aren't "throwing away" CP though - you get much more value for your CP this way than when you would take them into the game and tried to spend them on stratagems.

Having no great stratagems is a curse and blessing at the same time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 13:21:56


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

i'd rather have mediocre strats than 4-5 "I must use these strats at every possible time to even attempt to be competitive"

It annoys me with necrons that i am commonly burning 2-3 strats every single time my warriors shoot.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






Yeah, having good points costs and strong baseline datasheets is much preferable to having to burn CP/points on mandatory upgrades, because at that point it may as well be baked in their baseline cost anyways if they're such must-takes.

It's just a pity that they've gutted our kustom jobs for the most part (I miss having some kind of shiny bits or dirty gubbinz for my walkerz) and that the strong baseline cost/efficiency was not ported over to our core units of Gretchin/Boyz. I think this is the first edition where our troops simply don't have any value compared to the rest of our army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 13:40:11


 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




Hi there… I really struggle between fielding a Biker or a Trike as Speedboss for my Freebootaz.
a quick reminder… everything I will say is under the premise that you’ll run him to utilize a Speedwaagh. And i used to HATE the trike. Been fielding my Warboss on Bike since 4th edition, but recently i played alot with the Trike, since the rules for the bike were a mess. ...and i gotta admit, he's done alright in my games so far.

Well... thats why I wanted to make a comparison for me anyways.. so why not share my thoughts with you all. Maybe this will help someone or maybe you can find flaws in my logic.

Anyways ...the wind blows and ERE WE GO!


Profiles
vs the Trike, the BikerBoss has:
+ 1 strength, + 1 toughness, -1 wound, -1 LD

the profiles are quite similar, no real winner here. The toughness isn’t as important me thinks, going from 6 to 7, it only really matters for CC but even then, ramshackle even things out, especially since the trike has one more wound. The + 1 strength could matter, but on the other hand, the trike rerolls all woundrolls. So again, not much difference. The real difference here is in the flexibility of the bike, since it can take either a klaw or bigchoppa, which can be enhanced by relics. But more on that later…

wargear
similar shooting, double dakkagunz better than triple boomsticks, but trike has the flamer/melta, so I guess the trike wins here. Also, the Trike is a vehicle, which means he can shoot all his weapons into CC. Six s5 shots and a flamer or two melta shots to the face are no joke. Those can easily pling of a wound or two, clear some chaff or with luck do massive damage against a hard opponent. in mho the trike wins the shooting game.
CC on the other hand… the basic loadout, bigchoppa or klaw vs Snagga Claw, is a draw. Yes, the bike has that magical s8 and better threshold, but because of the rerolls of the snagga claw, it insn’t that big of a deal. The biker klaw has -1 to hit, wounds better and has +1 ap, the coppa has one less ap than the snagga. The snagga rerolls all wounds. Imho the choppa as a standalone weapon is worse. Maybe the klaw is slightly better than the snagga? It matters mainly vs high toughness targets and the extra ap could come in handy. AGAIN, relics and stuff will matter, but we’re not there yet
Overall, the Trike has better shooting and slightly worse basic CC weapon, but can also shoot into CC, so at best a draw, I personally see the Trike ahead.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Abilities:
here the clear winner is the trike. It can do everything the bike can, but also as the ability to advance 9” instead of 6 and he has mighty ramshackle… and he can use Rammingspeed, which is kinda of a big deal. Bummer that the bike didn’t receive the cloud of smoke.

warlordtraits / relics
The traits are the same for both. But the Trike can’t receive any relics at all. The bike can boost his damage output by taking either the Headwompa or the Kklaw, which makes him clearly better in CC. you could combine further offensive strats like BbK to really make him a monster in CC. Bike clearly wins here….

….BUUUT the real question is DO YOU REALLY WANT TO? Lets be honest here. Both are ok’ish in terms of survivability (only real CC dedicated units can one shot them, and both can take a at least one or two lasCans to the face) but to really boost em into “A-Tier-level” they need the Ard as Nails trait, which leaves the CC abilities of both in the “ok’ish” area. The relics help the Biker a lot to push him into “good-tier” but without BbK, it will never be “A”.
I always used the Biker as a “Kill what I want missile unit” but that doesn’t work anymore. He can’t advance and charge and needs to be the Warlord cause how speedwaagh works. Honestly nowadays me thinks he’s more of a support/countercharge unit (like the trike). He doesn’t need to destroy everything he touches in one round. And honestly with all the -1 dmg, -1 tohit, only 4+ to wound and loss of the 4dmg swing he really can’t.

Conclusion
All in all I really can’t see a clear winner. Both are very niche anyway, and in some instances the Trike will be better in certain configurations, other times it will be the Bike.

If you still want to use a speedboss as a “remove what I touch” unit, go with the bike, headwompa or kklaw and BbK, but be prepared to lose him afterwards.
As a countercharge/support unit I would go with the Trike. Give him hard as Nails and ramspeed him into whatever threatens your important stuff.

The thing is… We have better options for hard hitting HQ’s (looking at the Squigosaur especially). So I would say Check what other HQ’s you have, what traits and relics THEY need and THEN decide if you want a bike or a trike, both are good at what they do. Just PLEASE forget the missilebiker of 8th, he doesn’t exist enymore and will only coud your judgement.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 15:00:21


 
   
Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






Badskull banner is vehicule only no ? Can't remember and don't have my codex with me here at work.
If so, that pushes the trike waaaay above for a freebooter Warlord

Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

I wish they would have cleared up the meganobs dual killsaw arguements. Do they get +1 attack or +2

I would have said an extra 2 attacks based on the wording (1per killsaw) but someone pointed to Tyranid FAQ about scything talons which says they got 1 extra attack for 1 pair of talons if equipped with more than 1. Not 1 per pair of talons
Now I am not sure any more.. .

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 15:33:50


SMASH  
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

RedNoak wrote:
Hi there… I really struggle between fielding a Biker or a Trike as Speedboss for my Freebootaz.
…….


Why struggle. Take both. In every detachement one. Trike with badskull banner and biker with relic klaw.

9000pt and one Ad Mech T-shirt 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

you cant have both in the same detachment. They follow the same rules for warbosses of 1 per detachment.

Personally i think the Bikerboss is better but only because of S12 AP4 via the killaklaw, whatever he does hit tends to die while the Trike still allows saves. Also smaller footprint.

In the past ive never been able to get the trike to do any melee and not immediately die because that footprint is so huge i cant really keep him protected, and the instant hes exposed he gets lit up. Bikerboss i dont seem to have that problem with.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in cz
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Prague

 Vineheart01 wrote:
you cant have both in the same detachment. They follow the same rules for warbosses of 1 per detachment.

Personally i think the Bikerboss is better but only because of S12 AP4 via the killaklaw, whatever he does hit tends to die while the Trike still allows saves. Also smaller footprint.

In the past ive never been able to get the trike to do any melee and not immediately die because that footprint is so huge i cant really keep him protected, and the instant hes exposed he gets lit up. Bikerboss i dont seem to have that problem with.


I have the same experience with Trike and Bikerboss.

However, Trike with Badskool banner and speedfreak smoke strat becames usefull - thanks to its huge footprint.

That is the reason, why I have two detachements, one with the Trike, second with the boss….


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regarding Killsaw - it takes me a while to see, why someone thinks about +2 attacks. Hey really? One killsaw +0 and two +2? With the GW level of care about singular/plural?

[Thumb - 2B30D6FD-9D52-4745-9386-F632FA249150.jpeg]
New one

[Thumb - D10F54FC-8626-486D-ACA4-CA3F113963C9.jpeg]
Old one

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 17:14:31


9000pt and one Ad Mech T-shirt 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

 Tomsug wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
you cant have both in the same detachment. They follow the same rules for warbosses of 1 per detachment.

Personally i think the Bikerboss is better but only because of S12 AP4 via the killaklaw, whatever he does hit tends to die while the Trike still allows saves. Also smaller footprint.

In the past ive never been able to get the trike to do any melee and not immediately die because that footprint is so huge i cant really keep him protected, and the instant hes exposed he gets lit up. Bikerboss i dont seem to have that problem with.


I have the same experience with Trike and Bikerboss.

However, Trike with Badskool banner and speedfreak smoke strat becames usefull - thanks to its huge footprint.

That is the reason, why I have two detachements, one with the Trike, second with the boss….


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regarding Killsaw - it takes me a while to see, why someone thinks about +2 attacks. Hey really? One killsaw +0 and two +2? With the GW level of care about singular/plural?



It's the wording -
Each time the bearer fights, if it is equipped with 2 killsaws, it makes 1 additional attack with this weapon

---With THIS weapon.

And this wording is on both killsaw weapon profiles.

Soooo seems to imply it gets 1 additional attack with 1 killsaw and 1 additional attack with the 2nd killsaw

SMASH  
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Its more the cost that makes me think that than the dupe-rule wording.

Previously the saws were barely more expensive but lost shooting as an extra cost, so just +1 attack felt fine despite having 2 weapons that say "increase attack by 1"
Now its crazy expensive and specifies this weapon, which we know from other weapons it does not care if you have multiple of the same weapon you get that rule twice.

MANz with dual saws at 4A is criminally overpriced, but if it was 5A then it would be actually about right for their cost.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Its more the cost that makes me think that than the dupe-rule wording.

Previously the saws were barely more expensive but lost shooting as an extra cost, so just +1 attack felt fine despite having 2 weapons that say "increase attack by 1"
Now its crazy expensive and specifies this weapon, which we know from other weapons it does not care if you have multiple of the same weapon you get that rule twice.

MANz with dual saws at 4A is criminally overpriced, but if it was 5A then it would be actually about right for their cost.



im on your side but people i talk to keep pointing me to this Tyranid FAQ

Scything talons - You can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for this weapon. If the bearer has more than one pair of scything talons, it can make 1 additional attack with this weapon each time it fights.


Q: If a model has more than one pair of scything/monstrous scything/massive scything talons, does it make 1 additional attack with one of those pairs, or 1 additional attack with each of those pairs?
A:
1 additional attack with one of those pairs.


Pfft i have no idea, which is why FAQ is needed.............


SMASH  
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Either way, im back in the klaw+gun boat now days anyway.

Meganobz are objective bullies, they arent that great at killing big threats because usually big threats can kill them fairly easily and/or they have issues catching them.

Squad of 3 Meganobz with klaw + kombirokkit = 120pts (40pts each). With a move of 5 now they can usually reach the middle objectives even w/o a transport, so they just park it on an objective and be a pain in the butt to get rid of due to 2+ and possibly cover (light or obstructing) and spit out 3D3 rokkits at the same time.

Side comment: is Battlescribe updated? I see comments in the manage data section about them being released but i still get the old ork stuff when i make a list.
Edit: nvm, apparently i have 2 ork entries now for lists? weird

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 18:15:32


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Either way, im back in the klaw+gun boat now days anyway.

Meganobz are objective bullies, they arent that great at killing big threats because usually big threats can kill them fairly easily and/or they have issues catching them.

Squad of 3 Meganobz with klaw + kombirokkit = 120pts (40pts each). With a move of 5 now they can usually reach the middle objectives even w/o a transport, so they just park it on an objective and be a pain in the butt to get rid of due to 2+ and possibly cover (light or obstructing) and spit out 3D3 rokkits at the same time.

Side comment: is Battlescribe updated? I see comments in the manage data section about them being released but i still get the old ork stuff when i make a list.
Edit: nvm, apparently i have 2 ork entries now for lists? weird


Mine hasn't updated yet. My Bikerboss still shows as having the "warboss" and "speedboss" rules, where it only has "speedboss" now (I think).
   
 
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