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 Jidmah wrote:
To end this discussion (I think it's rather clear that GW messed up), I've added the two aura issues to the first post.

Fair enough it's dragging on too much anyway, I agree it's a mess.

 kingbbobb wrote:
Would you say the painboss has the aura ability Doks tools but the painboy + grotsnik does not?
Or would you play rules as intended and say they both have an aura ability?

I think going on case-by-case basis is the right thing to do here. Doc tools and body guard are such cases where it's rather clear. For the banner though we don't have a rule with the same wording which is flagged as aura (or do we?).

 Jidmah wrote:

I think going on case-by-case basis is the right thing to do here. Doc tools and body guard are such cases where it's rather clear. For the banner though we don't have a rule with the same wording which is flagged as aura (or do we?).

Well, this is the running in the circle. Either you request the obvious tag “aura” or not. Banner is an obvious aura via core rule description and it' s description. It ' s constant not trigerring rule applied to specific units. Painboy aura 100% the same mechanic. If this is not an aura, I totaly do not understand, what this term in this rules means. On the other side, on the basis of common consensus - if not marked specificly as an aura, it is not an aura - I skipp my trick Banner + trait +3” for now.

But saying “it ' s a similar rule, so it should be an aura” in this situation is houseruling.

What is the problem, if painboy and mad dok “not-aura” is not an aura? Everything works. Screwed, yes (hello Mortarion, they don 't care about you, this is not-an-aura, if you have a problem, write to GW, they maybe answer you in 30 days) but what?

Either we request the (aura) tag, or follow the core rule general formulation. But do not both. It will be the mess in GWs mess.
It will be the similar like say “Kannonwagon is a type of battlewagon, so let' s give him Ramshackle, it ahould be there and “it comes with FAQ””.

Or do I miss something?

Alliance Open Super Major in Ultrecht, Netherlands. Orks placing third, going 6-1 under the command of Thomas Brutscher.

List is in spoilers.

 Jidmah wrote:

 kingbbobb wrote:
Would you say the painboss has the aura ability Doks tools but the painboy + grotsnik does not?
Or would you play rules as intended and say they both have an aura ability?

I think going on case-by-case basis is the right thing to do here. Doc tools and body guard are such cases where it's rather clear. For the banner though we don't have a rule with the same wording which is flagged as aura (or do we?).

There are similar abilities in other codexs.... That are described as aura abilities. But they are not exactly the same
.
This is the only example I know off the top of my head. I think it's a space marine relic.

The loss of objective secured is described as an aura ability

VISAGE OF DEATH
Each time a melee attack is made against this unit, subtract 1 from that attack’s hit roll.

The bearer gains the following ability: ‘Visage of Death (Aura): While an enemy unit is within 3" of this model, it loses the Objective Secured ability and any similar abilities that allow it to control an objective marker regardless of the number of enemy models within range of that objective marker.’

I have a tournament with around 200 people coming up and haven’t played for a year and apparently did I book a game during the weekend when I was drunk for tomorrow.
So anyway here I am without a list and 24 hours to make one.
I thinking speed freaks cause I got a lot of warbikes. Can someone guide me towards a decent list
I got around 20 warbikes
2*3 Squighog boys with nob
6 trukks
150 boys
1 wartrike
1 scrapjet
1 KBB
1 SJD
15 storm boys
1 copta
2 dakka jets
1 wazbomba
A lot of mek gunz, most characters and crap like walkers, battlewagons and so on.

Are people going mostly for 2 detachments these days? And have we agreed on which klan is the winner? Seen Goff speed freaks list but I’m thinking bad moons to maximize the dakka? Evil sunz seems to have lost to much good stuff.
I´m mostly clueless as you might see.

Hurraayyy! FAQ is out.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/#warhammer-40000

And yes, Kannonwagon gets the Ramshackle. Otherwise as was shown before in the app…

And yes, Dok' s Tools got the “(aura)” mark. Which in my eyes confirm Jidmah' s version of the Aura questions, because it shows, (aura) is a hard keyword and man has to distinguish yes/no. It is not just so information bonus.

And no, no comments to “shootas boyz and +1 to hit whehn trukkboyz in trukk” issue….

Or do I miss something?

Skip Bad Moons and Evil Sunz, not worth it.
All other clans are viable.
Blood Axes is great for falling back + shoot or charge + have a good WL trait.
Freebooters is also good for Dakka heavy lists + decent Relic & strat. Might be bad in certain match ups though as you will have a hard time to trigger their culture.
Death Skulls are good for making Stormboys & Kommandos ObSec + 5+++ against MWs.
Goffs are nice for melee stuff.

Since there is no downside on mixing cultures I'd go for 2-3 detachments with 2-3 different clans for getting the best out of all of them.
Trike is great for Speedwaaagh which makes vehicle and Bike shooting quite good.
You can go for 1-2 patrol and 1-2 outrider detachments + some extra Relics/ traits. We have not many good strategems, but those that are good will cost you 2 CP, so 4-5 CP has been enough in my games.

Do you have Kommandos and a MA Big Mek as well?
Good news is a lot of your stuff is viable, only thing you're missing is more Scrapjets, Squigbuggies and if you can convert it Beastboss on Squigosaurus.

Quick list idea with your stuff would be:


That leaves you with about 200 points.

You could go for a third detachment to get 3 clans. (Shooty stuff preferably Freebooters, melee stuff Goffs)
If you have them or can prox some stuff add a Squigboss / 3rd unit of trukk boys / Kommandos / Squigbuggies / Scrapjets / Dragsta - depending on what you like and what you got if count as or quick conversion is of the table.
1-2 squads of Death Skull ObSec Kommandos + Squigboss would be my favourite.
With Goffs a Warboss on Bike might be an alternative to the Squigboss.

Don't bother bringing more than 2-3 x 1 Mek Gun and skip on all the walkers.
Only Waggon I'd consider is a Boomer Gunwaggen which is inferior to Squigbuggies but might be an (expensive) alternative to squigbuggies if you want to max out Dakka but lack the models.
10 Grot for actions like Octarius data can help sometimes, especially if you don't have Kommandos and enough Squigbuggies to screen your backfield.
Boys are dead except Trukk Boys, but if you don't want to play them you could also squeeze in the 3 Buggies you got. Not as good as 3 Scrapjets & 3 Squigbuggies, but I guess for shooting it's the best you get with your models.
I had some success with Wazbom with Tellyport Blastas + Deffdread with 4 KMB in Reserve for 2 CP, but it seems the dredd will loose his access to the + 4 shots kustom job that made it kinda viable (if you believe the WH App "leaks") especially as Freebooters, but for now it's still legal.

new codex FAQs. and its... lacking. many unanswered questions i feel.

Yeah, I found it dumb that they edited Nob Bikerz but they lack both the big red button and cloud of smoke abilities for regular Warbikerz. I guess Nobz didn't pay to deck out their bikes like their ladz did.

The nob from normal warbikers have better stats than the nob leader from nobz on warbikes...

And i really needed an FAQ to state whether or not trukk boys receive +1 to hit when the trukk does. Furthermore it would be nice to know if the -AP bonus during a speedwaaagh would move over to the infantry sitting inside.

Yea people have opinions, id rather want it clarified.

Also the boss bunker, would it be able to be dropped within 3" of terrain? just a small note stating whether or not if that works or not would be great.

Well, not so many. The list from the front pages seems to be more list of explanations than list of questions….

Just the trukkboyz, speedwaagh on units in transport and few minor flaws left….

Commented list from page 1:

1) The grot shields stratagem can target Makari, who has Look out Sir, making both Makari and the unit he is protecting untargetable. This is most likely not intended. // solved via FAQ
2) The big 'ead boss bunker can be tellyported, but has to be 3" from other terrain pieces // in my eys yes. That is RAW.
3) The big 'ead boss bunker cannot move using the careen stratagem because models with movement speed "-" cannot move for any reason. // solved some old FAQ says so..
4) Flash gits aren't clan locked, but transport rules allow "FLASH GITZ or <CLAN> INFANTRY models". Specialist mobs cannot enter transports because they lose the<CLAN> keyword, but are clearly supposed to do so (trukk boyz). Most likely GW intended to make transports "Specailist Ladz(pg. 51) or <CLAN> INFANTRY models". This would imply that units like Grotznik could also ride any transport. // solved via FAQ
5) The warboss on warbike can currently declare both Speedwaagh! and Waaagh! at different times because it has the speedboss and warboss keyword. // solved via FAQ
6) The monster hunterz stratagem lasts indefinitely. This might or might not be intended. // solved via FAQ
7) NOB and NOBZ is the same keyword according to the keyword plural rules. Therefore MANz can be trukkboyz. // solved via Core rules, plural has no affect
8) Kustom jobs and specialist mobs CAN be used on models in SUPER-HEAVY AUXILIARY DETACHMENT or SUPER-HEAVY DETACHMENT if there is another ork detachment in your army. // solved?
9) Burna Exhausts are listed for weapons affected by Pyromaniacs specialist mob, but you cannot make KBBs pyromaniacs // solved via FAQ
10) Blitza bommers can be boom boyz but get zero benefit from it because they don't have any blast weapons. // solved via FAQ
11) When you make battlewagon specialst mobs, they lose the ability to transport <CLAN> models. When you make characters specialist mobs, their auras will not affect <CLAN> models anymore. // solved via FAQ, no Specialist in BW
12) There are no BEAST SNAGGA MONSTER units that could be targeted by the "Tough as a Squig-Hide" stratagem. Possible meant to say BEAST SNAGGA VEHICLE, but unclear. // no idea, still valid?
13) The Red Rolla kustom job adds extra attacks "until that fight is resolved", which isn't really a defined term. Most likely meant to say until the end of the fight phase. // not solved?
14) Despite being listed under "Mek Kustom Jobs" the Extra-Kustom Weapon is not limited to meks, but can be taken by any unit. Possibly not intended. // solved via FAQ
15) The interaction between the Beastboss on Squigosaur's jaws and the Brutal but Kunnin' warlord trait is unclear, but it is likely that chomps triggering mortal wounds should not cause extra attacks. // this was solved by deep digging in the rules? Or not?
16) The goff kultur causes extra HITS on sixes, so it is not limited by the "no more than X attacks can be made with this weapon" wording. You get a second hit with the same weapon that made the original attack. // ok?
17) The blood axe warlord trait is done at the end of the "Deploy Forces" step, which can be find in the mission pack you are playing. For matched play, this is before you know who is going first. // solved via FAQ
18) The freebootas kulture gives +1 to hit for each unit you kill. Keep in mind that even if you trigger the kulture ten times, you can never modify a hit roll by more than +1. You can keep those eldar fliers from dodging though. // ok
19) A unit of trukk boyz would confers +1 to hit to its trukk, which in turn would confer that modifier back to the trukk boyz and any other model on board of that transport (SAG, MA big mek). // honestly? No idea…
20) Beast snaggas inside a beast snagga transport would get the hit bonus versus vehicles and monsters twice. // not solved?
21) It is not clear if INFANTRY inside of transports would benefit from the Speedwaaagh! AP bonus. // not solved?
22) A painboss' doc tools are an aura, but pain boyz' and Grotznik's doc tools are not // solved via FAQ
23) The dedskull banner seems to be an aura, but is not flagged as such // not solved

Beardedragon wrote:
The nob from normal warbikers have better stats than the nob leader from nobz on warbikes...

And i really needed an FAQ to state whether or not trukk boys receive +1 to hit when the trukk does. Furthermore it would be nice to know if the -AP bonus during a speedwaaagh would move over to the infantry sitting inside.

Yea people have opinions, id rather want it clarified.

Also the boss bunker, would it be able to be dropped within 3" of terrain? just a small note stating whether or not if that works or not would be great.

I know the boss bunker still can't be dropped within 3" of terrain since its the baseline rules that it conflicts with, not the model's bespoke rules itself.

that faq answered maybe a third of the questions about this codex... nice gw

 Grotrebel wrote:

Since there is no downside on mixing cultures I'd go for 2-3 detachments with 2-3 different clans for getting the best out of all of them.

I completely agree on this point. I'm running Freebootaz, Deathskulls and Goffs at the moment to something resembling success.

 Grimskul wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
The nob from normal warbikers have better stats than the nob leader from nobz on warbikes...

And i really needed an FAQ to state whether or not trukk boys receive +1 to hit when the trukk does. Furthermore it would be nice to know if the -AP bonus during a speedwaaagh would move over to the infantry sitting inside.

Yea people have opinions, id rather want it clarified.

Also the boss bunker, would it be able to be dropped within 3" of terrain? just a small note stating whether or not if that works or not would be great.

I know the boss bunker still can't be dropped within 3" of terrain since its the baseline rules that it conflicts with, not the model's bespoke rules itself.

Yeah, tellyporting the building in the midle of the field is the new “ nobz with drive the motorbike with two killsaws”. Let' s ignore this unit please, consider it for another Mekboy workshop….

As has been mentioned the rare rules section a the back of the book addresses passengers in a transport affected by modifiers to their shooting. The fuzzy issue was the extra shot from Speedwaaagh on Dakka weapons, is it a "modifier" or not? I personally had RAI doubts about whether or not GW really intended for passengers to get the benefit of speedwaaagh or Trukkboyz but as they have chosen not to include an FAQ answer confirming or denying it, I'll be playing it RAW with the exception of the Dakka bonus since that's unclear.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
that faq answered maybe a third of the questions about this codex... nice gw

Dont be so sceptical. Call it half!

In the past they have only referred to hit/wound as modifiers for the trukk, unless they update it i would assume Speedwaaagh does not transfer (even though it makes 100% sense to do it).
Biggest core rule flop i can think of is they didnt address the Beast Snagga Monster thing, which of course would refer to the Rigs right now being mislabled as vehicle and were supposed to be monsters. Regardless of whether that strat meant Vehicle or the Rig was supposed to be Monster that changes a LOT of behavior around the Rigs.

Then there is nob bikers. The hell? No cloud of smoke, no big red button, no 4th wound? Theyre inferior to warbikers somehow right now lol

Email sent to FW about that even though i highly doubt they read those anymore lol. That is just...pathetic...

There is some blatantly missed questions like beastsnagga monsters just don’t exist. But we are getting there. Not to mention nob bikers are just awful. We just need another faq.

After this ridiculous 2 month story of “releasing” our codex full of bugs per partes via incomplete leaks etc. Codex with new units you cannot buy….. I feel that the fact, Nob bikers are trash as really minor issue. Really guys….

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Goff turned Trukkboy into an Evil Sunz trukk?
He isnt goff at that point, hes a trukkboy. And yes thats exactly how it works.

Specialist mobs are mostly for those random units that simply dont work in the detachment that well, case in point if you ran badmoonz you could Trukkboyz a MANz squad and despite being in a badmoonz detachment theyre getting melee perks.

Really tnx a lot !!!!
To all of you guys

To be positive on this warboss on bike is pretty good now (even better if we can get cloud of smoke via faq 2.0).

Also beast snagga units are unexpectedly better by changing the beast snagga ability to +1 to wound instead of another +1 to hit they are now (including units like Killrig) much better at killing monsters and vehicles.

Can someone explain the change on the Blood Axe trait ?
So basically, Blood Axe redeploy "before" rolling off for the first turn, Right ?
;(

XC18 wrote:
Can someone explain the change on the Blood Axe trait ?
So basically, Blood Axe redeploy "before" rolling off for the first turn, Right ?
;(

Yeah nothing changes, that didn't even need clarifying FFS !

GW really is at its worse here. How. The. Fooook. Could they answer so few of the questions we had... I guess its just "now we move on to other codices". And can they just release the Fing models for the beastboss on sguigly jurrasic park and the Mozdregg instead of relasing half assed FAQs...

Sorry for venting like this fellas, bad day at work, not made bette by GW :(

Madjob wrote:
As has been mentioned the rare rules section a the back of the book addresses passengers in a transport affected by modifiers to their shooting. The fuzzy issue was the extra shot from Speedwaaagh on Dakka weapons, is it a "modifier" or not? I personally had RAI doubts about whether or not GW really intended for passengers to get the benefit of speedwaaagh or Trukkboyz but as they have chosen not to include an FAQ answer confirming or denying it, I'll be playing it RAW with the exception of the Dakka bonus since that's unclear.

Well I would say this applies ...

"Any abilities (including Detachment abilities) that models in an embarked unit have, or that their weapons have, continue to apply when they make ranged attacks."

that part isnt the issue.

The issue is the Speedwaagh itself does not technically affect embarked units, it only affects bikers and vehicles.

The question comes down to 'does open topped transfer those benefits?" because it makes sense that it would, but it doesnt seem to explicitly say it does.

The WAAAAGH! rule is part of the embarked unit yes but the Speedwaagh half of it doesnt do anything to them directly.

Hah I see. I completely miss understood the issue lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
that part isnt the issue.

The issue is the Speedwaagh itself does not technically affect embarked units, it only affects bikers and vehicles.

The question comes down to 'does open topped transfer those benefits?" because it makes sense that it would, but it doesnt seem to explicitly say it does.

The WAAAAGH! rule is part of the embarked unit yes but the Speedwaagh half of it doesnt do anything to them directly.

In general I have always gone with the stance that the entire rule is transferred - restrictions included.
Because the restrictions on are part of the modifier.
So for me it would be no, because it's not a vehicle or biker unit.

Well, at least GW still manages to surprise me.

- BBK and goff interaction was not ruled according to already existing RAW, but can now trigger extra attacks from the additional hits you got.
- Specialist mobs can only ride trukks. Any other specialist mob transport can't carry anything but flash gits
- Biker nobz continue down the road of getting soft-squatted. Stop using your perfectly fine models and buy squig hogs you gits! Biker nobz also are neither NOBZ nor MOB, so mob rule doesn't do gak for them. You can't even use them to keep your bikers in line.
- Warboss on warbike lost the ability to break heads, both as ability and stratagem
- Grot tanks, big trakks and kannonwagon gained 'ere we go

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, at least GW still manages to surprise me.

- BBK and goff interaction was not ruled according to already existing RAW, but can now trigger extra attacks from the additional hits you got.
- Specialist mobs can only ride trukks. Any other specialist mob transport can't carry anything but flash gits
- Biker nobz continue down the road of getting soft-squatted. Stop using your perfectly fine models and buy squig hogs you gits! Biker nobz also are neither NOBZ nor MOB, so mob rule doesn't do gak for them. You can't even use them to keep your bikers in line.
- Warboss on warbike lost the ability to break heads, both as ability and stratagem
- Grot tanks, big trakks and kannonwagon gained 'ere we go

Most ridiculous thing I saw was squigs given ramshackle
It's a f**king monster not a trukk it should have Thick Hide like the beast boss on a squig.

But I guess they wanted it to be limited to S7 weapons and lower



Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Goffs/BBK is interesting.
I wasn't expecting this.... Honestly I am just glad they cleared it up..... A little
I was interpreting RAI goffs extra hits don't generate extra attacks.
goffs went from additional attacks in 8th to additional hits in 9th
Each 6 scoring 2hits
There are rules stating additional attacks can't generate additional attacks.
But there are no rules stating attacks scoring 2 hits can't generate additional attacks.

Unless I am remembering wrong. Which is possible