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Commissar Benny wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Just in case it hasn't been done yet, a better picture of the upcoming Commissar:

he has a bionic right arm 'cause his last pp blew up!

I hadn't noticed this. Hilarious!

I think he will pair well with the FW commissar tank commander. If I can find that figure......
He always looked so pissed. Now I know why, his brother is a swashbuckling ground pounder.
Oh the humanity!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It does make me question the "just two" specials for Scions though...

Why not 3! Gah! RUINED!

Because it's not fluffy. An highly trained detachment of soldiers hailing from the IoM's most prestigious military school should not have access to more special equipment than a bunch of grunts who were lucky enough to not die.
Wait...

If only those scions were armed standard with a weapon that for most guardsmen would qualify as an upgrade... wait... They are!

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Just in case it hasn't been done yet, a better picture of the upcoming Commissar:

he has a bionic right arm 'cause his last pp blew up!

He kind of looks a little like Commissar Holt...

Buttons wrote:So can I assume that autocannon chimeras are still FW only?

Yes.

Smitty wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Just in case it hasn't been done yet, a better picture of the upcoming Commissar:

he has a bionic right arm 'cause his last pp blew up!

He kind of looks a little like Commissar Holt...

COMMISSAR Holt!

 BrookM wrote:
Just in case it hasn't been done yet, a better picture of the upcoming Commissar:

Better, but he is still wearing the wrong color sash.

 warboss wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It does make me question the "just two" specials for Scions though...

Why not 3! Gah! RUINED!

Because it's not fluffy. An highly trained detachment of soldiers hailing from the IoM's most prestigious military school should not have access to more special equipment than a bunch of grunts who were lucky enough to not die.
Wait...

If only those scions were armed standard with a weapon that for most guardsmen would qualify as an upgrade... wait... They are!

Aha! Well played. Still, it's odd how graduates from the progena aren't authorized a third plasma gun. I guess it's due to balance, but it's still...odd.

Some forward sentries Vet squads with triple plas and lascannons being ordered to get on their damn horses and become relentless should be a solid troop choice. Deploy behind cover turn one, then order them to move their arses and destroy things at full BS.

I still don't think I saw any clarification on whether you can order units inside of vehicles (I doubt it), but putting a vet squad with HWT in a chimera and ordering them to be relentless would be pretty sweet too. I don't have high hopes for that, however.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It does make me question the "just two" specials for Scions though...

Why not 3! Gah! RUINED!

Because it's not fluffy. An highly trained detachment of soldiers hailing from the IoM's most prestigious military school should not have access to more special equipment than a bunch of grunts who were lucky enough to not die.
Wait...

If only those scions were armed standard with a weapon that for most guardsmen would qualify as an upgrade... wait... They are!

Aha! Well played. Still, it's odd how graduates from the progena aren't authorized a third plasma gun. I guess it's due to balance, but it's still...odd.

Scions are too valuable to loose to unpredictable old tech weapons?

 Insurgency Walker wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It does make me question the "just two" specials for Scions though...

Why not 3! Gah! RUINED!

Because it's not fluffy. An highly trained detachment of soldiers hailing from the IoM's most prestigious military school should not have access to more special equipment than a bunch of grunts who were lucky enough to not die.
Wait...

If only those scions were armed standard with a weapon that for most guardsmen would qualify as an upgrade... wait... They are!

Aha! Well played. Still, it's odd how graduates from the progena aren't authorized a third plasma gun. I guess it's due to balance, but it's still...odd.

Scions are too valuable to loose to unpredictable old tech weapons?

Ok, what about melta guns, grenade launchers and hot-shot volley guns? Do those have a tendency to explode in their user's hands?

Can they take plasma guns?

I can just picture a Logitech doing the statistics on the cost analysis of adding a third plasma gun vs trooper life expectancy.

 vic wrote:
Penal legion gone? awww crap. I really like those guys.

They aren't popular and purely a redundancy with Infantry section and Conscripts
also what happens to Conscripts?

I suspect the issue is quasi balance. If vets had the option to upgrade to hellguns then I'd agree with you but their standard weapon is much better at killing heavy infantry than standard vet weapons. I'm ok both practically and thematically with vets having that particular niche.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Just in case it hasn't been done yet, a better picture of the upcoming Commissar:

Better, but he is still wearing the wrong color sash.

Or maybe Commissars assigned to the Scions wear a different colour.

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Sounds interesting so far, although I'm still a bit pissed they got rid of Penal Legion since that completely borks one of my Ally lists which relied on them to fill out the FoC slot, and neither Vets nor Infantry Platoons "fit" thematically with the army.

I would like a couple of clarifications regarding Techpriest Enginseers;

1. Can all of the Servitors take Heavy Weapons, ie can you take a Techpriest and five servitors all with HBs/Plasma Cannons, or do they stick with the moronic system of only allowing three to upgrade?

2. Can you issue Orders to a Techpriest + Servitor unit?

1) I'm pretty sure Jex said 1-5 servitors with either HB's or plasma cannons, that's also how it works in the Inquisition Codex

2) I'd very much count on it. The criteria for orders is probably 1) Is it infantry and 2) Is it from this Codex. That means we'll probably be getting Servitor Squads with 5 HB's all with ignores cover from Fire On My Target at BS3 and potentially re-rolls to hit from prescience.

Actually the Inquisition 'dex only allows 3 Servitors to upgrade, that's why I'm anxious to know if they've replicated that daft limitation. Hopefully not, since running three full-sized packs of these would fit in with my AdMech army far more than HWTs or Sabres(since we're still not allowed to take Veteran Heavy Weapon Squads with Carapace to match the Troops Vet squads).

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
No, Rough Riders got no extra wargear, can’t have lasguns, can’t have carapace.

T-P+Servitors can take orders, as orders can be given to non-vehicle friendly units from the AM codex.

Yes, I do have the codex for real; got to have faith y’know…but since I’m at work ‘I’ll ask my colleague to take a picture of the veterans’s page for all the Thomas out there.

As said, Tech-Priests, Priests and Primaris Psyker are all 0-3, don’t take a FoC spot and don’t count as a mandatory HQ unit.

Ta. And the heavy weapon upgrades, can all five servitors take them?

 Sir Arun wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Enjoy Thomas!

Spoiler:

wow Harker sucks even harder now than he used to.

So Hvy weapons still has two crews rather than three
and this also means that heavy weapons + 2 special weapons combo is still valid?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Insurgency Walker wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It does make me question the "just two" specials for Scions though...

Why not 3! Gah! RUINED!

Because it's not fluffy. An highly trained detachment of soldiers hailing from the IoM's most prestigious military school should not have access to more special equipment than a bunch of grunts who were lucky enough to not die.
Wait...

If only those scions were armed standard with a weapon that for most guardsmen would qualify as an upgrade... wait... They are!

Aha! Well played. Still, it's odd how graduates from the progena aren't authorized a third plasma gun. I guess it's due to balance, but it's still...odd.

Scions are too valuable to loose to unpredictable old tech weapons?

Ok, what about melta guns, grenade launchers and hot-shot volley guns? Do those have a tendency to explode in their user's hands?

Clearly it is because all those weapons are on the same requisition form. The Departmento Munitorium can only keep the plasma guns in check by only allowing two specialist weapon requisitions per squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrookM wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Just in case it hasn't been done yet, a better picture of the upcoming Commissar:

Better, but he is still wearing the wrong color sash.

Or maybe Commissars assigned to the Scions wear a different colour.

Just trying to hide the fact these scions are working for the greater good!

 Insurgency Walker wrote:
Just trying to hide the fact these scions are working for the greater good!

Funny you should mention that, one of the regiments mentioned in the Militarum Tempestus codex frequently fights alongside the Tau.

edit.

The 86th Deltic Dragons.

 warboss wrote:
I suspect the issue is quasi balance. If vets had the option to upgrade to hellguns then I'd agree with you but their standard weapon is much better at killing heavy infantry than standard vet weapons. I'm ok both practically and thematically with vets having that particular niche.

ACtually, I'd guess the fluff justification is that Scions use the gear that's issued to them, and very few IoM squads get more than two upgrade weapons per 10 man squad. Tactical squads, Platoon Squads, sisters squads, even terminators and Sterngaurd are limited to two upgrades per 10. So they simply use what they are told to use.

Veterans use what they can access, and that means they are more likley to scrounge a couple extra special weapons.

Are they BB? If that is the case I can finally have gue'vessa, yay!

Inquisitor Jex wrote:

Buttons wrote:So can I assume that autocannon chimeras are still FW only?

Yes.

Damn. I mean I assumed as much, but I love my autocannon chimeras I converted using Hellhound turrets and HWS autocannons. Oh well as long as I still have forgeworld rules, I just wish they were in the codex even if they were 10 points instead of 5.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
A standard infantry squad is absolutely better now

But standard infantry squads never go in Chimeras. Transports are a fixed price no matter what you put in them, so it doesn't make much sense to spend 125 points for a single BS 3 melta gun when you can spend 145 points for two BS 4 melta guns.

A big loss against Terminators, monstrous creatures, artillery and other tougher targets, unfortunately.

Which is the problem. Those are the things you take plasma vets to deal with, so losing a model with a real weapon from the top hatch more than offsets any gain from the extra lasgun shots. This is why it's undeniably a nerf, not an improvement.

you seem to be stuck in a magical world where vet spam in chimeras is the only tactic that exists.... where 8 lasguns always do less damage then one plasma, and the extra cost of that plasma doesnt matter. not to mention the split fire on the las guns.

seriosuly as I have stated, it came out EQUAL, or slightly ahead when you factor in reduced cost for the vets themselves... -10 points for the vets, +10 pts for the chimera, thats EQUAL. 1almost guaranteed special weapon wound vs 8 50/50 wounds from lasguns + split fire is about equal given that this meta has far more light infantry then terminators.

now stop complaining and whining and adapt,

it is in fact a good thing that GW toned down chimera Spam, as that was just stupid how much av 12 with 4+ covers guard could spam, in mindless parking lot after mindless parking lot, because, as we all know, mech infantry is supposd to just sit there behind pre fabbed defenses, and never, you know, move and do stuff.

there are plenty of other viable strategies, not only viable, extremely powerful and FUN, that are opened up with all the changes to the IG dex. almost everything in the book got a buff or a pts decrease, except for the most powerful spammed combo, which basically remained the same, trading 8 lasguns for one special weapon to be fired. its not the end of the world, plenty of other ways to drop 3 special weapons off... especially now that we have tele homers on more vehicles.

the fact that bs 4 guards men are only 6 pts is huge... and if you say that they are useless without a chimera, you are just wrong... flat out wrong. Id much rather have cover, or another squad of vets, then have 4/6 guys wounded when my transport blows up, possibly pinned, and likely clumped together.

no krak on vets? meh, not like I ever used this before, Id much rather have the lower base cost.

 Polonius wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I suspect the issue is quasi balance. If vets had the option to upgrade to hellguns then I'd agree with you but their standard weapon is much better at killing heavy infantry than standard vet weapons. I'm ok both practically and thematically with vets having that particular niche.

ACtually, I'd guess the fluff justification is that Scions use the gear that's issued to them, and very few IoM squads get more than two upgrade weapons per 10 man squad. Tactical squads, Platoon Squads, sisters squads, even terminators and Sterngaurd are limited to two upgrades per 10. So they simply use what they are told to use.

Veterans use what they can access, and that means they are more likley to scrounge a couple extra special weapons.

Aren't vets also the remnants of either a whole platoon or company that has been whittled down? If that fluff still exists then it explains why they have multiple squads worth of upgrades.

Not trying to troll or be overtly negative, but I feel that overall were getting nerfed. Yeah Vets are cheaper and Pask is looking to be a must have, but theres so much more i read and see that leaves me honestly depressed over this realease. The point increases, the nerfing of esential rules (particularly "bring it down!" which was necessary for me to go against mech lists and nidzillas,), and the overall nerfing of particular unit rules. All i want to know is do you lasgun weilding SOB's feel the same or am i just bein' a lil' bitch?

 warboss wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

 warboss wrote:
I suspect the issue is quasi balance. If vets had the option to upgrade to hellguns then I'd agree with you but their standard weapon is much better at killing heavy infantry than standard vet weapons. I'm ok both practically and thematically with vets having that particular niche.

ACtually, I'd guess the fluff justification is that Scions use the gear that's issued to them, and very few IoM squads get more than two upgrade weapons per 10 man squad. Tactical squads, Platoon Squads, sisters squads, even terminators and Sterngaurd are limited to two upgrades per 10. So they simply use what they are told to use.

Veterans use what they can access, and that means they are more likley to scrounge a couple extra special weapons.

Aren't vets also the remnants of either a whole platoon or company that has been whittled down? If that fluff still exists then it explains why they have multiple squads worth of upgrades.

That is generally true, also they are meant to be rough, hardened vets, who probably don't care too much for the command structure anymore. They might very well just see a dead plasma gunner, pick up his plasma gun, and keep it, it isn't like looting is unknown among soldiers.

Can I get confirmation that Yarrick can do orders? If so that's the most amazing thing ever!!!

 PuddlePirate wrote:
Not trying to troll or be overtly negative, but I feel that overall were getting nerfed. Yeah Vets are cheaper and Pask is looking to be a must have, but theres so much more i read and see that leaves me honestly depressed over this realease. The point increases, the nerfing of esential rules (particularly "bring it down!" which was necessary for me to go against mech lists and nidzillas,), and the overall nerfing of particular unit rules. All i want to know is do you lasgun weilding SOB's feel the same or am i just bein' a lil' bitch?

in this day and age, when everyone and their mother has divination for guard,

why are you so stressed about losing the twin linked vs monsters and vehicles...

especially when it was replaced with tank/monster hunter orders.... so now not only can you have re rols to hit against everything... you also get the hunter rules.


I think you are gravely underestimating how many precision shots this dex can put out, and how bad that is for the other guy...

not to mention our absurd # of spammable heavy weapons just got more absurd.

 BrookM wrote:

 Insurgency Walker wrote:
Just trying to hide the fact these scions are working for the greater good!

Funny you should mention that, one of the regiments mentioned in the Militarum Tempestus codex frequently fights alongside the Tau.

edit.

The 86th Deltic Dragons.

I made that joke when the first picture got leaked, but was not surprised that the MT has a few regiments that have worked with, or specialized to combat Xenos.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Can I get confirmation that Yarrick can do orders? If so that's the most amazing thing ever!!!

I confirm it.

He's got 3 special rules: voice of command (can give orders), Senior officer (Can give 2 orders/turn) and chain of command (him and Commissar Lord; if there are no model with the voice of command in your army, they can act as your Warlord)

Any chance you can clarify the ogryn shield rules ?


I gather they have a "shield wall" affect or somesuch that boosts their save either by 1 or by 1 per model ...? ... if they're in base to base with each other or something ?

They also provide more cover than usual to models behind them too maybe ?