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So do we think that you cna just take the hydra guns in and out to make a Wyvern

 Mr.Omega wrote:

 Cerebrium wrote:
But even if they can take 3 specials, it's largely pointless now that Chimeras only have 2 fire points.

It will only make a difference if they're on foot, and a vet unit on foot is a soon-to-be-dead vet unit.

Not if you actually disembark them into cover, like someone genuinely sensible.

Plus, defensive Vet Doctrines, namely Grenadiers and Forward Sentries, are absurdly cheap now. 10 points for 3+ cover saves when disembarking into ruins and a nerf to any unit charging them is very good.

While I don't deny that better cover saves are nice, the problem is the sheer amount of deny cover weapons that are AP5 or AP4. Not enough AP to harm a marine....but just enough to hose your guard or stormtroopers. Hell, the IG have their least expensive Leman Russ variant doing exactly this. Pop your vets out of the chimera, and now that opposing eradicator can wipe the unit with a Large Blast Ignores Cover AP 4. Then throws out 9 HB shots if there were any survivors.

I see too many armies including anti-cover weapons as auto-take for me to consider losing 3 firing points but gaining cheaper +cover saves a benefit.

edit : it appears our dear inquisitor Jex is now famous, being quoted by both BoLS and Faeit212 =P

Are heavy stubbers 5 or 10 points?

The Division Of Joy wrote:
The iPad ebooks are well worth the extra.

See a rule you can't quite remember in the Codex? Best you dig out your rule book. iPad? just click the rule for a full explanation.

What is the range of that weapon again? Doesn't it have ignores cover? flick through to find out, or just click a link.

Funny thing is, if they just released a pamphlet of rules which weren't strewn throughout the codex (is it really necessary to have rules in at least 4 locations?), you could probably look up the pamphlet faster than you could look up your ipad.

The only reason the ipad rules might be easier as reference material is because GW sucks at laying out the rules in the codices. Since I paid for a crappy ebook tyranid codex I should probably go to the extra effort of making my own pamphlet for it.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

The Division Of Joy wrote:
The iPad ebooks are well worth the extra.

See a rule you can't quite remember in the Codex? Best you dig out your rule book. iPad? just click the rule for a full explanation.

What is the range of that weapon again? Doesn't it have ignores cover? flick through to find out, or just click a link.

Funny thing is, if they just released a pamphlet of rules which weren't strewn throughout the codex (is it really necessary to have rules in at least 4 locations?), you could probably look up the pamphlet faster than you could look up your ipad.

Like say a handy fold out reference chart in the back of the book that covers 90% of the rules and stats in the book?

Can we get a picture of the veteran entry in English to settle the difference? Not that I don't believe our amazing Jex here, but as they say, seeing is believing.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

The Division Of Joy wrote:
The iPad ebooks are well worth the extra.

See a rule you can't quite remember in the Codex? Best you dig out your rule book. iPad? just click the rule for a full explanation.

What is the range of that weapon again? Doesn't it have ignores cover? flick through to find out, or just click a link.

Funny thing is, if they just released a pamphlet of rules which weren't strewn throughout the codex (is it really necessary to have rules in at least 4 locations?), you could probably look up the pamphlet faster than you could look up your ipad.

Like say a handy fold out reference chart in the back of the book that covers 90% of the rules and stats in the book?

Some books do have good references, others don't. I think the Eldar one is pretty good, I'm not sure what the printed Tyranid one is like, but the ebook Tyranid one isn't great.

Say, instead, the rules were in a pamphlet with tabs seperating HQ, Troops, etc. For each troop you have it's rules, it's points value, it's special rules, it's weapon options and the stats for those weapon options. It would be sooooo much easier. Most units would fit on an A5 page, some units you could fit 2 or 3 on a single A5 page. That's basically what Forge World does, though they include pictures and fluff as well, if you cut that out you could fit an army in to an easily referenced book so easily.

No, Rough Riders got no extra wargear, can’t have lasguns, can’t have carapace.

T-P+Servitors can take orders, as orders can be given to non-vehicle friendly units from the AM codex.

Yes, I do have the codex for real; got to have faith y’know…but since I’m at work ‘I’ll ask my colleague to take a picture of the veterans’s page for all the Thomas out there.

As said, Tech-Priests, Priests and Primaris Psyker are all 0-3, don’t take a FoC spot and don’t count as a mandatory HQ unit.

Does the Techpriest still get a bonus to repair rolls from servitors? If so, does he still get it when upgraded to gun servitors?

Yes, +1 per servitor..as for the bonus still being tehre with a gun serviotr..I'l have to check on that.

Picture will come later today as well, since at work and all...

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
and really, with the warlord trait, you might just be able to outflank D3 unit with ANY commander..granted you got to roll a 1, but you got a 1/6 chance to pull a CREEEEEDDDD every game, maybe even 2 or 3!

This could be verrrry interesting. I think I'll be regularly taking my Hellhounds/Bane Wolves, then. Definite candidate for outflanking if I roll that 1, otherwise they can speed up the flank.

The storm chimera in IA12 only had two fire points too, think they had a bit of insight about this change coming? I wonder how / if these changes will be applied to FW army lists.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
No, Rough Riders got no extra wargear, can’t have lasguns, can’t have carapace.

T-P+Servitors can take orders, as orders can be given to non-vehicle friendly units from the AM codex.

Yes, I do have the codex for real; got to have faith y’know…but since I’m at work ‘I’ll ask my colleague to take a picture of the veterans’s page for all the Thomas out there.

As said, Tech-Priests, Priests and Primaris Psyker are all 0-3, don’t take a FoC spot and don’t count as a mandatory HQ unit.

Thanks, Inquisitor Jex, for all your input.
On the spanish codex, visible here, 3rd picture right row :
http://www.mariscal40k.es/reglas-definitivas-del-codex-astra-militarum/
the vetera squad can take 1 heavy flamer + 2 special weapons. This special weapon drama on veteras definetly needs to be clarified !

Another strange thing is the status of primaris psykers : they seem to have lost their independent character rule. Are they walking alone in the battlefield ? Are they required to be attached to an infantry unit from start ?

The Primaris, Priests, Commissar Lord, Yarrick, and the tech-Priests are all independant characters.

Just in case it hasn't been done yet, a better picture of the upcoming Commissar:

Looking at the Warlord traits, it seems like the Relentless one is really the worst of the bunch. I guess it lets you fire sniper rifles and heavy weapons on the move, and to assault after firing plasma rifles, but it's not much for a unit that probably doesn't want to assault. The thing that might make it a little less crummy though is the MoO. Is his shot just a simple weapon profile, or is he specifically restricted from moving? Being able to move to help with orders and keep laying in cheap, inaccurate artillery barrages could be pretty neat.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
The Primaris, Priests, Commissar Lord, Yarrick, and the tech-Priests are all independant characters.

Yeah ! Great.



On commissar topic, the nice dynamic metal miniature with plasma pistol + choice between chainsaw and power sword is unavailable now, on both sides of the Atlantic.
Granted I have 2 of these. The other with bolt pistol will follow in USA : already unavailable in euro zone.

 Ravajaxe wrote:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
No, Rough Riders got no extra wargear, can’t have lasguns, can’t have carapace.

T-P+Servitors can take orders, as orders can be given to non-vehicle friendly units from the AM codex.

Yes, I do have the codex for real; got to have faith y’know…but since I’m at work ‘I’ll ask my colleague to take a picture of the veterans’s page for all the Thomas out there.

As said, Tech-Priests, Priests and Primaris Psyker are all 0-3, don’t take a FoC spot and don’t count as a mandatory HQ unit.

Thanks, Inquisitor Jex, for all your input.
On the spanish codex, visible here, 3rd picture right row :
http://www.mariscal40k.es/reglas-definitivas-del-codex-astra-militarum/
the vetera squad can take 1 heavy flamer + 2 special weapons. This special weapon drama on veteras definetly needs to be clarified !

Another strange thing is the status of primaris psykers : they seem to have lost their independent character rule. Are they walking alone in the battlefield ? Are they required to be attached to an infantry unit from start ?

Hahahaha our weedy infantry squad Sergeants still have more attacks than stock Space Marine Sergeants

Penal legion gone? awww crap. I really like those guys.

Because I just like to follow silly ideas down the rabbit hole;

Squad of Veterans, Grenadiers, 3 Plasma (or 2 Plasma + Heavy Flamer), 2 Priests with plasma guns.

1.) 200 points
2.) Fits in Chimera (another 65 points)
3.) 5 plasma guns (or 4 + HF)
4.) Fearless, Hatred, 2 shots at a War Chant

So you drive a Chimera up and get out, cast Prescience on the squad, use an order of choice to make them Tank Hunters or ignore cover, re-roll your missed shots, remove enemy unit. Counter chargers eat re-rolled plasma shots, then tangle with 12 scrawny dudes that are unreasonably angry for their weight class. (Re-rolling hits, probably re-rolling wounds or re-rolling armor saves, maybe both).

Probably not worth the points, but 5 plasma guns in a single squad is pretty sweet.

Uhh... I ordered the Codex. I know I'll be as if not more disappointed with this one than I was with 'Nids. This is why I started Deathwatch and Adeptus Mechanicus armies. GW can't ruin what they haven't written.



And looking at that Commissar up head. His head is comically too big for his body.

This is what I think I'm running standard for my (2) HQ's

CCS (60)
Primaris (50)
MoO (20)
VoxCaster (5)

Strangely it's right at 135 points

Cast prescience, Orders FoMT = profit

Str 9, AP3 rerollable scatter, rerollable orders, that ignores cover....

Colossus... I never even knew you.

The head could be okay, it's the super-heavy hat that is a bit WTF.

 Slinky wrote:
The head could be okay, it's the super-heavy hat that is a bit WTF.

What you don't realize is that his super-heavy hat grants him the Lumbering Behemoth special rule.

Enjoy Thomas!

We still have the option for Eviscerators??

 vic wrote:
Penal legion gone? awww crap. I really like those guys.

You should no by now: GW doesn't give any of the Legions rules. That includes Penal Legions.

So it's still 3 special weapons.

Hooray, I guess?

Sweet, nice to see that vets still pack three specials at least.

It does make me question the "just two" specials for Scions though...

Why not 3! Gah! RUINED!