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The new GW FineSite says "No Longer Available", and not "Temporarily Out of Stock".

What slots do p psykers, techpriests and priests take up? Do they use up HQ slots now? Have any become elites?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The new GW FineSite says "No Longer Available", and not "Temporarily Out of Stock".

It could be that your webstore is out for the same day shipping that they promise. As such they won't sell you a product that they cannot send? The Fine site could be incorrect?

The UK store has it and lets the book be added to the shopping cart so maybe we have the tale end of the stock..

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The new GW FineSite says "No Longer Available", and not "Temporarily Out of Stock".

Yeah, that's what it says on the Oz site, UK site it's still there, US site I can't find it at all? Who knows, somehow they managed to mess up something rather simple.

Also they've made it more annoying to swap from one country to the next, but I guess that's in their best interest so that customers can't as easily see how much they are being ripped off in their own country.

 Peregrine wrote:
I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just that it's clearly a nerf. Sometimes nerfs are justified, like the Vendetta nerf. You can claim that the Chimera nerf was necessary or appropriate, but it's absolutely absurd to claim that it is somehow an improvement like the person I was quoting did.

It really depends on what kind of squad you are transporting in your Chimera.

A standard infantry squad is absolutely better now; you can fire your heavy weapon and special weapon, plus twice as many lasguns at separate targets. I know that you don't think lasguns are even worth mentioning, but I disagree; they kill many targets more efficiently than special weapons when you factor in their cost.

Veterans with plasma guns are only somewhat nerfed; the savings on the veterans themselves and not taking the third plasma gun almost cancel out the extra cost of the chimera and the reduced firepower when shooting MEQ (in light cover), Eldar Jetbikes, White Scars bikers and other popular troops. A big loss against Terminators, monstrous creatures, artillery and other tougher targets, unfortunately.

Veterans with melta guns are totally screwed. An effective loss of one third of their anti-tank firepower for less than 7% cost savings is pretty harsh. At least Vanquishers got cheaper to compensate for the loss of pretty much every other option for dealing with big nasty stuff.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just that it's clearly a nerf. Sometimes nerfs are justified, like the Vendetta nerf. You can claim that the Chimera nerf was necessary or appropriate, but it's absolutely absurd to claim that it is somehow an improvement like the person I was quoting did.

It really depends on what kind of squad you are transporting in your Chimera.

A standard infantry squad is absolutely better now; you can fire your heavy weapon and special weapon, plus twice as many lasguns at separate targets. I know that you don't think lasguns are even worth mentioning, but I disagree; they kill many targets more efficiently than special weapons when you factor in their cost.

Veterans with plasma guns are only somewhat nerfed; the savings on the veterans themselves and not taking the third plasma gun almost cancel out the extra cost of the chimera and the reduced firepower when shooting MEQ (in light cover), Eldar Jetbikes, White Scars bikers and other popular troops. A big loss against Terminators, monstrous creatures, artillery and other tougher targets, unfortunately.

Veterans with melta guns are totally screwed. An effective loss of one third of their anti-tank firepower for less than 7% cost savings is pretty harsh. At least Vanquishers got cheaper to compensate for the loss of pretty much every other option for dealing with big nasty stuff.

I'm sure its quoted a couple of pages back (by Inquisitor Jex) that vets can still take 3 special weapons.

alphaecho wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just that it's clearly a nerf. Sometimes nerfs are justified, like the Vendetta nerf. You can claim that the Chimera nerf was necessary or appropriate, but it's absolutely absurd to claim that it is somehow an improvement like the person I was quoting did.

It really depends on what kind of squad you are transporting in your Chimera.

A standard infantry squad is absolutely better now; you can fire your heavy weapon and special weapon, plus twice as many lasguns at separate targets. I know that you don't think lasguns are even worth mentioning, but I disagree; they kill many targets more efficiently than special weapons when you factor in their cost.

Veterans with plasma guns are only somewhat nerfed; the savings on the veterans themselves and not taking the third plasma gun almost cancel out the extra cost of the chimera and the reduced firepower when shooting MEQ (in light cover), Eldar Jetbikes, White Scars bikers and other popular troops. A big loss against Terminators, monstrous creatures, artillery and other tougher targets, unfortunately.

Veterans with melta guns are totally screwed. An effective loss of one third of their anti-tank firepower for less than 7% cost savings is pretty harsh. At least Vanquishers got cheaper to compensate for the loss of pretty much every other option for dealing with big nasty stuff.

I'm sure its quoted a couple of pages back (by Inquisitor Jex) that vets can still take 3 special weapons.

I'm not holding my breath because the photo of the Spanish book says 2.

alphaecho wrote:
I'm sure its quoted a couple of pages back (by Inquisitor Jex) that vets can still take 3 special weapons.

Even if they can, only two of them can fire from a Chimera now.

Jex states he has the English language book and that as long as no Heavy Flamer is taken, vets can take 3 special weapons.

Is he on the level, is he taking the mickey...your guess is as good as mine.

Until we all actually have the book in hand and read it...who knows.? Guess I find out on Saturday.

But even if they can take 3 specials, it's largely pointless now that Chimeras only have 2 fire points.

It will only make a difference if they're on foot, and a vet unit on foot is a soon-to-be-dead vet unit.

 Cerebrium wrote:
But even if they can take 3 specials, it's largely pointless now that Chimeras only have 2 fire points.

It will only make a difference if they're on foot, and a vet unit on foot is a soon-to-be-dead vet unit.

Not if you actually disembark them into cover, like someone genuinely sensible.

Plus, defensive Vet Doctrines, namely Grenadiers and Forward Sentries, are absurdly cheap now. 10 points for 3+ cover saves when disembarking into ruins and a nerf to any unit charging them is very good.

 Cerebrium wrote:
It will only make a difference if they're on foot, and a vet unit on foot is a soon-to-be-dead vet unit.

Not if you field enough of them. Gunline vets may actually work now.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
A standard infantry squad is absolutely better now

But standard infantry squads never go in Chimeras. Transports are a fixed price no matter what you put in them, so it doesn't make much sense to spend 125 points for a single BS 3 melta gun when you can spend 145 points for two BS 4 melta guns.

A big loss against Terminators, monstrous creatures, artillery and other tougher targets, unfortunately.

Which is the problem. Those are the things you take plasma vets to deal with, so losing a model with a real weapon from the top hatch more than offsets any gain from the extra lasgun shots. This is why it's undeniably a nerf, not an improvement.

alphaecho wrote:
Jex states he has the English language book and that as long as no Heavy Flamer is taken, vets can take 3 special weapons.

Is he on the level, is he taking the mickey...your guess is as good as mine.

Until we all actually have the book in hand and read it...who knows.? Guess I find out on Saturday.

The way the Spanish book reads is one model can take a vox, one can take a heavy flamer, 2 can become a heavy weapon team, and 2 that have not taken any of the other options can take special weapons. Didn't see anything about 3 special weapons if you don't take the Hflamer.

For me, that has no effect, as I have modeled most my vet squads as 2 melta or plasma and 1 flamer for versatility, now I just turn that flamer into a heavy flamer. And 15 point carapace is far better than 30 point carapace. As is 10 point camo cloaks instead of 30 point cloaks.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
A standard infantry squad is absolutely better now

But standard infantry squads never go in Chimeras. Transports are a fixed price no matter what you put in them, so it doesn't make much sense to spend 125 points for a single BS 3 melta gun when you can spend 145 points for two BS 4 melta guns.

A big loss against Terminators, monstrous creatures, artillery and other tougher targets, unfortunately.

Which is the problem. Those are the things you take plasma vets to deal with, so losing a model with a real weapon from the top hatch more than offsets any gain from the extra lasgun shots. This is why it's undeniably a nerf, not an improvement.

When you could take 3 special weapons in a vet squad in a Chimera and shoot all three out of their fire ports, there was no reason to take special weapon squads or get out of the Chimera. It's a nerf, but does reduce some point and click army building choices and tactics.

 Cerebrium wrote:
But even if they can take 3 specials, it's largely pointless now that Chimeras only have 2 fire points.

It will only make a difference if they're on foot, and a vet unit on foot is a soon-to-be-dead vet unit.

They have to disembark for orders.

6 ignore cover or monster hunter plasma shots.

3 tank hunting melta shots.

That's more dakka for less points, but more potential to get shot up with enemy fire next turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does bring it down last until the end of the turn or the shooting phase? It's a big deal for models with krak grenades.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Cerebrium wrote:
But even if they can take 3 specials, it's largely pointless now that Chimeras only have 2 fire points.

It will only make a difference if they're on foot, and a vet unit on foot is a soon-to-be-dead vet unit.

They have to disembark for orders.

6 ignore cover or monster hunter plasma shots.

3 tank hunting melta shots.

That's more dakka for less points, but more potential to get shot up with enemy fire next turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does bring it down last until the end of the turn or the shooting phase? It's a big deal for models with krak grenades.

Or, which is pretty lol worthy, Forwards For the Emperor! to fire your entire Vet volley and then run them behind the tank or into cover. You could technically do this before by exploiting a Chimera's flat out move to conceal the squad, but you had to sacrifice all of the vehicle's shooting.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

alphaecho wrote:
Jex states he has the English language book and that as long as no Heavy Flamer is taken, vets can take 3 special weapons.

Is he on the level, is he taking the mickey...your guess is as good as mine.

Until we all actually have the book in hand and read it...who knows.? Guess I find out on Saturday.

The way the Spanish book reads is one model can take a vox, one can take a heavy flamer, 2 can become a heavy weapon team, and 2 that have not taken any of the other options can take special weapons. Didn't see anything about 3 special weapons if you don't take the Hflamer.

For me, that has no effect, as I have modeled most my vet squads as 2 melta or plasma and 1 flamer for versatility, now I just turn that flamer into a heavy flamer. And 15 point carapace is far better than 30 point carapace. As is 10 point camo cloaks instead of 30 point cloaks.

Judging on previous comments about the way GW books are translated, I'll find out when I get my English language version on Saturday. No offense to the Spanish version.

As for other comments here: does no-one want new tactical challenges?

Only two special weapons can be fired out of a Chimera now? How will I ever win? Develop new tactics. Don't be a one trick pony.

"Standard Infantry never go in Chimeras." They do the way I play so maybe that quote should be "I don't put standard infantry in Chimeras, others might"

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
When you could take 3 special weapons in a vet squad in a Chimera and shoot all three out of their fire ports, there was no reason to take special weapon squads or get out of the Chimera. It's a nerf, but does reduce some point and click army building choices and tactics.

I'm not saying that it's an unjustified nerf, just that it's insane to claim that the Chimera is improved by these changes. IMO it's a reasonable change, it gives some incentive to disembark occasionally instead of just sitting in the bunker all game, and it removes the absurdity of five models firing out of that tiny hatch. It's how the Chimera's rules used to work, and the 5th edition simplification of the side-mounted lasguns to five fire points wasn't a very good change (even if it was good for helping IG players win).

alphaecho wrote:
As for other comments here: does no-one want new tactical challenges?

No, I want to continue using the army I already paid for. A new codex should be about improving the quality of the rules, not making changes just for the sake of having things be different.

"Standard Infantry never go in Chimeras." They do the way I play so maybe that quote should be "I don't put standard infantry in Chimeras, others might"

Ok, fine. I admit that some people base their decisions on things other than what maximizes their chances of winning. If you have fluff reasons for putting standard infantry in Chimeras even if it's a bad strategy, sure, your Chimeras got better. But you obviously don't care about what is effective, so I don't see why you'd care that the Chimera got better.

Perhaps I am insane, but I swear the website says that the iBook of the new IG codex is more expensive than the physical copy of the book.

Sounds interesting so far, although I'm still a bit pissed they got rid of Penal Legion since that completely borks one of my Ally lists which relied on them to fill out the FoC slot, and neither Vets nor Infantry Platoons "fit" thematically with the army.

I would like a couple of clarifications regarding Techpriest Enginseers;

1. Can all of the Servitors take Heavy Weapons, ie can you take a Techpriest and five servitors all with HBs/Plasma Cannons, or do they stick with the moronic system of only allowing three to upgrade?

2. Can you issue Orders to a Techpriest + Servitor unit?

 Ahtman wrote:
Perhaps I am insane, but I swear the website says that there is an iBook ($54.99)that is more expensive than the physical copy of the book ($49.99).

It makes lots of sense. The iBook is full of lots of pointless clutter that nobody cares about, and that clutter costs money. Plus, the iStore gets a percentage of the sale price, so GW has to charge more for the digital version so they get as much money as they would from a paper copy. And don't forget the updates, the paper copy is cheaper because FAQs are gone and only digital books get the updates. And surely being aware of the correct rules is worth a mere $5...

 LordotKasrkin wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
With how many nerfs this book is getting I feel that the french translation mistook "radius" for "diameter" for the Deathstrike. I'm not convinced that GW even realized their old rules for the deathstrike was based on radius, so they'll just nerf it to "large blast" and forget there is a big difference between 2.5" radius and 6".

Maybe I'm wrong tho and this is the ONE buff the book gets.

Just one edition closer to the "capability of annihilating entire armies" that the current codex attributes to the Deathstrike.

ENTIRE ARMIES.

Even if the rumoured new rules are true, I'll still laugh at this idea in my sleep.

This reminds me of the poor tyranid players whose only viable build in the new codex is creating a huge blob around venomthropes.

Perfect for a 10 inch S10 AP1 ignores cover to hit home and wipe out 350 points of nids in 1 go.

If it had an army builder built into it for making IG armies I could maybe, just maybe, see it being there. Getting 360 views of models and the ability to check off which models I bought doesn't seem worth it.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
When you could take 3 special weapons in a vet squad in a Chimera and shoot all three out of their fire ports, there was no reason to take special weapon squads or get out of the Chimera. It's a nerf, but does reduce some point and click army building choices and tactics.

Except now that Chimeras are even more expensive, Vets are cheaper and Infantry squads are the same price, there's even less reason to take standard Infantry squads in Chimeras.

So they nerfed the Vets in Chimeras but still managed to make Infantry in Chimeras as equally unappealing as they were before.

 Peregrine wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
When you could take 3 special weapons in a vet squad in a Chimera and shoot all three out of their fire ports, there was no reason to take special weapon squads or get out of the Chimera. It's a nerf, but does reduce some point and click army building choices and tactics.

I'm not saying that it's an unjustified nerf, just that it's insane to claim that the Chimera is improved by these changes. IMO it's a reasonable change, it gives some incentive to disembark occasionally instead of just sitting in the bunker all game, and it removes the absurdity of five models firing out of that tiny hatch. It's how the Chimera's rules used to work, and the 5th edition simplification of the side-mounted lasguns to five fire points wasn't a very good change (even if it was good for helping IG players win).

alphaecho wrote:
As for other comments here: does no-one want new tactical challenges?

No, I want to continue using the army I already paid for. A new codex should be about improving the quality of the rules, not making changes just for the sake of having things be different.

"Standard Infantry never go in Chimeras." They do the way I play so maybe that quote should be "I don't put standard infantry in Chimeras, others might"

Ok, fine. I admit that some people base their decisions on things other than what maximizes their chances of winning. If you have fluff reasons for putting standard infantry in Chimeras even if it's a bad strategy, sure, your Chimeras got better. But you obviously don't care about what is effective, so I don't see why you'd care that the Chimera got better.

Thanks for letting me know what I do or do not care about.

There's no fluff reasons for my choices, I just like to be variable rather than do the same thing all the time.

So by your standards I should be here nearly twenty years later moaning about how I can't use Rough Rider Command Squads that were introduced in '95.

How about not being able to use an Ogryn Champion in my Ork army?

That said I do miss telescopic legs on my Shokk Attack gunner.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Sounds interesting so far, although I'm still a bit pissed they got rid of Penal Legion since that completely borks one of my Ally lists which relied on them to fill out the FoC slot, and neither Vets nor Infantry Platoons "fit" thematically with the army.

I would like a couple of clarifications regarding Techpriest Enginseers;

1. Can all of the Servitors take Heavy Weapons, ie can you take a Techpriest and five servitors all with HBs/Plasma Cannons, or do they stick with the moronic system of only allowing three to upgrade?

2. Can you issue Orders to a Techpriest + Servitor unit?

1) I'm pretty sure Jex said 1-5 servitors with either HB's or plasma cannons, that's also how it works in the Inquisition Codex

2) I'd very much count on it. The criteria for orders is probably 1) Is it infantry and 2) Is it from this Codex. That means we'll probably be getting Servitor Squads with 5 HB's all with ignores cover from Fire On My Target at BS3 and potentially re-rolls to hit from prescience.

 Peregrine wrote:
Ok, fine. I admit that some people base their decisions on things other than what maximizes their chances of winning. If you have fluff reasons for putting standard infantry in Chimeras even if it's a bad strategy, sure, your Chimeras got better. But you obviously don't care about what is effective, so I don't see why you'd care that the Chimera got better.

Maybe some people want to take affordable anti-infantry infantry squads and not get them wiped off the board by cheap ignores-cover blast weapons early on? There are more efficient tools for dealing with heavy targets than chimera veterans - actual tanks, for example. A squadron of Executioners with psyker support is going to achieve a lot more than a few plasma guns ever will. Infantry squads can deal with mopping up units which get too close and babysitting the psykers.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:
Perhaps I am insane, but I swear the website says that there is an iBook ($54.99)that is more expensive than the physical copy of the book ($49.99).

It makes lots of sense. The iBook is full of lots of pointless clutter that nobody cares about, and that clutter costs money. Plus, the iStore gets a percentage of the sale price, so GW has to charge more for the digital version so they get as much money as they would from a paper copy. And don't forget the updates, the paper copy is cheaper because FAQs are gone and only digital books get the updates. And surely being aware of the correct rules is worth a mere $5...

I wish digital books got updates. So far they've been as poorly supported in that front as the FAQ section and with them having just removed ALL gaming support from the website, I don't see that changing. It's a slap in the face for sure, there's absolutely no reason to buy digital at all without that support.

I wonder if a Lord Commissar can still be the warlord and takes a HQ slot.

The iPad ebooks are well worth the extra.

See a rule you can't quite remember in the Codex? Best you dig out your rule book. iPad? just click the rule for a full explanation.

What is the range of that weapon again? Doesn't it have ignores cover? flick through to find out, or just click a link.