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 warboss wrote:
Is the hooked tip sword a Yu Jing thing?

It's not been used before, but it seems to be based on the hook swords that Shaolin Monks used.

Dropbear Victim wrote:
Must resist buying all the PanO tags!

Why?

 ImAGeek wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Is the hooked tip sword a Yu Jing thing?

It's not been used before, but it seems to be based on the hook swords that Shaolin Monks used.

Loosely based probably. It's a bit hard to tell from those pics, but tiger (head/paw) hooks, as they are mostly called, have a very specific hand guard, that doubles as a friendly limb remover and a dagger.
Btw they were used not just by shaolin monks, but having been kind of a rare sight were considered exotic weapons anyway.
Also it's even rarer to see someone wield just one of them, they are one of those weapons you want to dual wield, because they only then live up to their full potential. Interlocking the hooks and other fun stuff.

He's a Yu Jing player maybe? Guijia looks pretty good.

So Seraph and Guijia in the same month. Gentlemen, ladies, we've officially been been TAG-teamed.

That Guijia is a fairly radical redesign too. It fits in much better with the current Yu-Jing esthetic. nonetheless, it is only the 2nd best TAG from Svalarheim.

Overall a nice month. Now CB, the tikbalang, os lo rogamos.

I wonder how easy it'd be to convert that Guija to be firing its gun? It is AVA 2, after all.

new Guija is rockin', but i still have a soft spot for the very Anime chubby original...
the first pic on Angel's Facebook post is hilarious, placing his signature model airbrush in the photo...
you go, Angel!!!

i can't get enough of TAGs...
gotta collect 'em all!!!

lovely stuff, as per usual...
retail Van Zant is even cooler than the LE to me, which is a nice change from the norm...

the whole CB stable just keeps killin' it!!!

cheers
jah

At least for the arms it's doable.

The left hand is already open, so it's easy to bend the fingers around the gun grip. The right hand is already in a grip, so you can cut off the sword, do a little resculpting on the fingers, and put the gun there.

Then it's a matter of repositioning the arms, which will require a lot of cutting, pinning and sculpting the muscle fibre joins. The the mini-me arms, they're Zu Yong arms. So gran a Zu Yong in a similar pose and just put the arms there.

The legs will require a lot of work to get them into a firing stance, however.

 Red Harvest wrote:
He's a Yu Jing player maybe?

Me? Nah, I intentionally steered away from Yujing.
By occupational hazard I know too much about chinese culture, history and martial arts to enjoy the necessarily slightly naive emulation of it in a game.
Even a genius like Gutier can't hide his laymanship from a professional (or descendant of said culture). Which brings to mind all the recent missrepresentation debates about american culture in USAriadna.
So I figured if I can't relax enough to not be bothered by the occasional inaccuracy and turn off the smartass in the back of my head long enough to genuinely enjoy the fluff, I better not get into it. Otherwise one might end up just getting on other people's nerves, while everybody should be just trying to have fun. (I have yet to hear anybody correctly pronounce Yujing, but most people also really don't care for being told so, so one should stop trying to do so at some point )

Foreign pronunciations are hard sometimes. Haqqislam has its fair share of hard to pronounce names.

Kum rider - Koom rider
Odalisque - Odaluk
Ghulam - Goolam

Etc. just one of those things where you just let people say it wrong and get on with playing the game.

 -Loki- wrote:
Foreign pronunciations are hard sometimes. Haqqislam has its fair share of hard to pronounce names.

Kum rider - Koom rider
Odalisque - Odaluk
Ghulam - Goolam

Etc. just one of those things where you just let people say it wrong and get on with playing the game.

Where are your 'correct' pronunciations coming from?

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Foreign pronunciations are hard sometimes. Haqqislam has its fair share of hard to pronounce names.

Kum rider - Koom rider
Odalisque - Odaluk
Ghulam - Goolam

Etc. just one of those things where you just let people say it wrong and get on with playing the game.

Where are your 'correct' pronunciations coming from?

I'm fairly sure the Ghulam is off. Arabic غ is transliterated as a GH but the 'g' is soft its not a Guh sound but from deeper in the throat and the H finishes off the sound. It is trilled slightly. The 'u' is a short vowel not a long vowel so its not 'oo' but just 'o'. LAM has the hardest emphasis. GHoLAM

If you know French then GH is similar to the French R.

There was a lengthy pronunciation thread. I did get Ghulam wrong, read somewhere else about the Kum pronunciation, but that thread makes it sound slightly different. Still, some odd ones in there.

These New Releases Make it really Hard to decide on Yu Jing or USariadna.
Have to wait for the Desporados. That will make it or Break it for me.
Hells Angels Biker Force, Or Akira Biker Force HA.
OT. The New Yu-jing Tag looks good.

I'm still gonna wait for the domaru box.

Once that is out, I'm gonna go broke buying all the boxes I've been putting off

 jah-joshua wrote:
new Guija is rockin', but i still have a soft spot for the very Anime chubby original...

Me too!

Love the original, makes me think of the Landmates from the Appleseed series.

 -Loki- wrote:
There was a lengthy pronunciation thread. I did get Ghulam wrong, read somewhere else about the Kum pronunciation, but that thread makes it sound slightly different. Still, some odd ones in there.

I think the naming of the units is one of the (few) areas in which CB has fallen down. Having names, even if there is a good historical and/or in-game reason, difficult to pronounce is just one more barrier to entry for players. The rules can be hard enough for someone new (or coming from a less complex system, no names...) and often (in my experience) sends them to look elsewhere; the use of sounds completely alien to some languages just makes getting into the game that little bit more difficult. I've had conversations where people have openly admitted liking the models and being interested in play but, because they couldn't read the names of some of the units on the boxes, were put off doing so.

I think that I prefer to have native names than have everything in "English", because...

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I think that I prefer to have native names than have everything in "English", because...

I definitely prefer it. The idea that foreign names of units could put people off a game seems a little bit... closed minded? to me. I didn't find it much harder to pick up what was what than in games with all English names. I mean I get the issue to an extent, but not enough to completely turn someone away.

As to whether or not I actually get them right, that's a whole other kettle of fish

 The Infinite wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
There was a lengthy pronunciation thread. I did get Ghulam wrong, read somewhere else about the Kum pronunciation, but that thread makes it sound slightly different. Still, some odd ones in there.

I think the naming of the units is one of the (few) areas in which CB has fallen down. Having names, even if there is a good historical and/or in-game reason, difficult to pronounce is just one more barrier to entry for players. The rules can be hard enough for someone new (or coming from a less complex system, no names...) and often (in my experience) sends them to look elsewhere; the use of sounds completely alien to some languages just makes getting into the game that little bit more difficult. I've had conversations where people have openly admitted liking the models and being interested in play but, because they couldn't read the names of some of the units on the boxes, were put off doing so.

I think there is something to that: while I haven't had that much of a problem with Infinity, I personally have experienced that exact thing with Meirce Miniatures' lines. Especially their use of Gaelic (I think that's what it is). To be clear, it's not a matter of embarrassment or being put off, per se, rather it's... I suppose the best comparison is being introduced to a number of very nice people with very foreign names. It simply takes a much longer time to make the mental connection between the names and the people, and with miniatures (or any other consumer product) you simply don't get exposed to them enough for the mental pathways for these new sounds to form.

This makes me wonder about how this is dealt with in marketing in general; in our global economy, this certainly isn't the first time this has come up. Though it also reminds me of a point John Derbyshire once made, that in previous generations travels that stayed for long periods of time in very foreign countries would take new, local names. So English in Hong Kong, for example, would stick to English names, while those traveling to Thailand (say) would adopt a Thai name for local use. This was also a phenomenon of the lower and lower middle classes, a throwback in a way to the ancient idea of traveling names, public names and private names. But this is a bit of a tangent...

I'd rather have things I had no idea how to pronounce than idiotic pseudo-Latin names.

Infinity's just taking off in my local store, and I'm certainly encountering lots of people who are embarassed to even attempt to pronounce their units names. I think that including an O-12 standard nomenclature that lists all the units name in english as well as giving us the infaction name would be a great boon to people starting out.

Yea, not being able to talk about units/models in the same language due to really hard pronunciation is a bit of a problem. Particularly for native English speakers, as we really don't have as much exposure to other languages for various reasons. As Buzzsaw said, Mierce names can really be a problem in this regard. I have trouble keeping unit straight in my head, as moving from the written characters to the sounds I hear in my head takes some time, and hell, I have a much better than average grasp of Gaelic pronunciation. I think a lot of people just don't even bother, and just make up descriptive names for most of the things.
I think a basic phonetic spelling in parenthesis after the names would go a long way towards smoothing the rough edges.

 Baiyuan wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
He's a Yu Jing player maybe?

Me? Nah, I intentionally steered away from Yujing.
By occupational hazard I know too much about chinese culture, history and martial arts to enjoy the necessarily slightly naive emulation of it in a game.
Even a genius like Gutier can't hide his laymanship from a professional (or descendant of said culture). Which brings to mind all the recent missrepresentation debates about american culture in USAriadna.
So I figured if I can't relax enough to not be bothered by the occasional inaccuracy and turn off the smartass in the back of my head long enough to genuinely enjoy the fluff, I better not get into it. Otherwise one might end up just getting on other people's nerves, while everybody should be just trying to have fun. (I have yet to hear anybody correctly pronounce Yujing, but most people also really don't care for being told so, so one should stop trying to do so at some point )

Okay. I was actually replying to this.

 .Mikes. wrote:

Dropbear Victim wrote:
Must resist buying all the PanO tags!

Why?

And pronunciations.? Sound it out. Don't worry if how you say it is how a native speaker would say it. Do any of you native English speakers think you "correctly" pronounce all the various words of Latin or French or Spanish, or pretty much every other language on this planet -- Succotash for example. An Algonquian word -- that we have imported into English? Anglicize the Infinity names just as we have anglicized the imported words. Or [your language here]-cize the names. Do you think Spaniards pronounce Djanbazan the same as English speakers? Or even the same as Mexicans? Nope, they don't. Heck, native English speakers have different pronunciations for many words. try this: Neither tomato nor vase nor vitamin has a universal pronunciation. The only incorrect pronunciation is one nobody understands.

Now, news? What are next months releases rumored to be?

Oh come on, who cares? Relax! It's just a game! Nobody will/should blame another for misspronouncing a couple of names?
Ask greeks about the names in the steel phalanx they will laugh their asses of.
It's just impossible to get everything right. You would need to learn the phonetics of dozens of languages for that.
Even though I actually try to ask native speakers of my armies' languages as much as possible. Still haven't found anyone for CA...

Also how would you give everything english names?
So the Asw(u)ang is "indonesian zombie-vampire" now?

People being embarrased to talk about troops is being overly conscious imo.
In the german meta I've experienced the opposite by the way, people not caring even if you're extremely diplomaticly telling them what the actual pronounciation would be just in case they want to know and people trying to smartass the correct pronounciation, by telling me their (uninformed) view on it.

 Red Harvest wrote:

Now, news? What are next months releases rumored to be?

According to Mayacast;
Domaru box
Avicenna
Rodoks box
Airborne Ranger
Hassasin Ragik Hacker

You are right. The way the names are spelled are precisely how you are supposed to pronounce them. If they were meant to be spoken in the native language they would be written in the native language. They are spelled in english so you can pronounce them in english.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:

Now, news? What are next months releases rumored to be?

According to Mayacast;
Domaru box
Avicenna
Rodoks box
Airborne Ranger
Hassasin Ragik Hacker

Thanks. The Avicenna render looked pretty good, and the Ragik Hacker is incredibly effective. So that's 2 for me... Maybe. I can always continue to proxy my Ragik rilfe as the hacker.

strange, double post

PsychoticStorm wrote:I think that I prefer to have native names than have everything in "English", because...

Baiyuan wrote:
Also how would you give everything english names?
So the Asw(u)ang is "indonesian zombie-vampire" now?

Yeah, this attitude is why I was hesitant to bring the point up. I realise it's probably inevitable given the language of the forums, but nothing in what I wrote pertained to English and it's pretty... racist isn't the right word and bigoted just feels wrong...
The assumption that it's english speakers that have a problem and would want to change words to accommodate their phonetics is, well, bigoted. Nowhere did I, or anyone I've seen, say or write they wanted words in "English" and it's a strawman you've set up in an effort to belittle the point.

Buzzsaw wrote:
I think there is something to that: while I haven't had that much of a problem with Infinity, I personally have experienced that exact thing with Meirce Miniatures' lines. Especially their use of Gaelic (I think that's what it is). To be clear, it's not a matter of embarrassment or being put off, per se, rather it's... I suppose the best comparison is being introduced to a number of very nice people with very foreign names. It simply takes a much longer time to make the mental connection between the names and the people, and with miniatures (or any other consumer product) you simply don't get exposed to them enough for the mental pathways for these new sounds to form.

This makes me wonder about how this is dealt with in marketing in general; in our global economy, this certainly isn't the first time this has come up. Though it also reminds me of a point John Derbyshire once made, that in previous generations travels that stayed for long periods of time in very foreign countries would take new, local names. So English in Hong Kong, for example, would stick to English names, while those traveling to Thailand (say) would adopt a Thai name for local use. This was also a phenomenon of the lower and lower middle classes, a throwback in a way to the ancient idea of traveling names, public names and private names. But this is a bit of a tangent...

This describes exactly how I felt trying to make sense of the units available (plus the symbols... god so many symbols...).

It's a marketing and localisation issue, and it's not surprising given how young a company CB is that this issue comes up.
Sure, you want to throttle most people in marketing when they ask inane questions like "will the customer understand?" (scream "YES, so long as they're not as dumb as you appear to be!" and you have to have a long talk with Pam from HR...) but huge amount of work goes into just getting the most "inviting" shades possible for the colours of products, let alone the names; choosing words that have literally alien sounds in some (actually most, but that's a whole other issue) languages would be shot down by every marketing department in the world.

I won't pretend to appreciate how the issue might be addressed (would you really play Nisses if they were localised as Gnomes?) or how much work would be required, I just wish it wasn't an issue at all.

The Infinite wrote:
Yeah, this attitude is why I was hesitant to bring the point up. I realise it's probably inevitable given the language of the forums, but nothing in what I wrote pertained to English and it's pretty... racist isn't the right word and bigoted just feels wrong...
The assumption that it's english speakers that have a problem and would want to change words to accommodate their phonetics is, well, bigoted. Nowhere did I, or anyone I've seen, say or write they wanted words in "English" and it's a strawman you've set up in an effort to belittle the point.

So what you want from the following?

The Infinite wrote:
I think the naming of the units is one of the (few) areas in which CB has fallen down. Having names, even if there is a good historical and/or in-game reason, difficult to pronounce is just one more barrier to entry for players. The rules can be hard enough for someone new (or coming from a less complex system, no names...) and often (in my experience) sends them to look elsewhere; the use of sounds completely alien to some languages just makes getting into the game that little bit more difficult. I've had conversations where people have openly admitted liking the models and being interested in play but, because they couldn't read the names of some of the units on the boxes, were put off doing so.

Not alien to pronounce names, what would these be and coming from what language?

And frankly I do not care how people pronounce the units names, even if they are completely wrong, I still prefer the multiculturalism that exists.