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T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.

lets not judge too soon.

tankbustas for example have +1 to hit so this cancels out the heavy penalty when moving.

in addition with the d3 attacks they have more potential damage output than before when stationary.

what vehicle will threaten your backline with tank bustas waiting to hit you on 4+

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:

Keramory wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:

Keramory wrote:
I'm just really sad about Evil Sunz. Favorite tribe by far and was already sad over not just 8th not having a character but them taking FW's character away too. Now apparently we lose boss on a bike... so it's just my trike I guess.

The plus 1 to charge is devastating but I'm still sticking with ES. I refuse to slog 5" orks.. 4" for Meganobz.

Before all of this I said here and elsewhere I didn't understand how enemy armies would deal with t5 spam across an entire codex. Now I know how. Nuke down everything else lol

Biker boss is a FW unit, so being excluded from the codex is reasonable. No different than other FW units like grot tanks, squiggoths, etc.

My mistake. For some reason I thought I read in one of the discord leaks they were canning that.

You did - because it read like the dude leaking didn't know WTF he was talking about. It was worded as if it was removed from the Codex. Like.. dude, it was never there to begin with.

It's why I'm skeptical we're missing context still. But we shall ssseee...

Correct playtesters will not know what’s happening to fw units… fw units will get a faq/errata shortly after the codex release to add in keywords and change weapjn profiles etc… PLUS it was just in the new chapter approved so unlikely it’s gone.

 Virules wrote:
T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.

I would say even internally it's not great though. With no +1A from having 20 or more boyz and no more mob rule, they really don't bring anything to the table Snagga Boyz don't besides maybe shootas which are meh at best. You're better off with MSU Snagga boyz in trukks than you are with boyz atm, its worth paying the 2 point premium.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Except it cant be, for 2 reasons

1) we already had that rule...they just turned it from an aura to a once per game thing like it used to be
2) its only affecting 2 turns, while everyone else gets game-long effects.

Again with the orks getting crappier rules everyone else gets but not being costed to compensate with numbers. Boyz at 9 is a joke so far, even 11 for snaggas isnt that great

Yep.

Comparing a 9 pt boy or 11 pt Snagga boy to an 8 pt Skitari Ranger or vanguard with all the layers of buffs and stratagems, we aren't playing in the same sport, let along division.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Virules wrote:
T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.

I would say even internally it's not great though. With no +1A from having 20 or more boyz and no more mob rule, they really don't bring anything to the table Snagga Boyz don't besides maybe shootas which are meh at best. You're better off with MSU Snagga boyz in trukks than you are with boyz atm, its worth paying the 2 point premium.

We lose mob rule as well?

please tell me you are joking?

Going to be the first 9th edition codex that's actually worse than the 8th edition version

 Virules wrote:
T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.

so "the problem is every other codex" essentially.
Right.

BTW marines wont be breaking a sweat to beat us either as they spam S8 and what isnt S8 they fire buckets full.

The only 9th codex i dont see curbstomping the orks so far is Necrons, and even they have answers to what little we got its just not usually in the same masses that the other codices are doing.

This was literally the argument in 7th when we got our codex: "The codex internally is well balanced, nothing really screams useless or overpowered compared to the rest of it. The problem is the other armies are insanely strong compared to us!"

Pickled_egg wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Except it cant be, for 2 reasons

1) we already had that rule...they just turned it from an aura to a once per game thing like it used to be
2) its only affecting 2 turns, while everyone else gets game-long effects.

Again with the orks getting crappier rules everyone else gets but not being costed to compensate with numbers. Boyz at 9 is a joke so far, even 11 for snaggas isnt that great

Yep.

Comparing a 9 pt boy or 11 pt Snagga boy to an 8 pt Skitari Ranger or vanguard with all the layers of buffs and stratagems, we aren't playing in the same sport, let along division.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Virules wrote:
T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.

I would say even internally it's not great though. With no +1A from having 20 or more boyz and no more mob rule, they really don't bring anything to the table Snagga Boyz don't besides maybe shootas which are meh at best. You're better off with MSU Snagga boyz in trukks than you are with boyz atm, its worth paying the 2 point premium.

We lose mob rule as well?

please tell me you are joking?

Going to be the first 9th edition codex that's actually worse than the 8th edition version

MMmmm.... but you have full knowledge of the Ad Mech Codex. We honestly don't know our strategems yet, other potential auras overlapping. There's a clear difference in data availability there.

We'll know tomorrow most likely. Then we can all collectively gripe until the next Codex lol.

Pickled_egg wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Except it cant be, for 2 reasons

1) we already had that rule...they just turned it from an aura to a once per game thing like it used to be
2) its only affecting 2 turns, while everyone else gets game-long effects.

Again with the orks getting crappier rules everyone else gets but not being costed to compensate with numbers. Boyz at 9 is a joke so far, even 11 for snaggas isnt that great

Yep.

Comparing a 9 pt boy or 11 pt Snagga boy to an 8 pt Skitari Ranger or vanguard with all the layers of buffs and stratagems, we aren't playing in the same sport, let along division.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Virules wrote:
T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.

I would say even internally it's not great though. With no +1A from having 20 or more boyz and no more mob rule, they really don't bring anything to the table Snagga Boyz don't besides maybe shootas which are meh at best. You're better off with MSU Snagga boyz in trukks than you are with boyz atm, its worth paying the 2 point premium.

We lose mob rule as well?

please tell me you are joking?

Going to be the first 9th edition codex that's actually worse than the 8th edition version

Mob rule is very strong but these changes do equalize things. Compare plague bearers at 9 ppm to a toughness 5 ork boy at 9 ppm. I'd take the boyz any day. The problem is comparing them to the game's most infamously undercosted troops, which make every other army's troops look stupid. Boyz are still an infinitely better troops choice then, say, plague marines or even necron warriors. Everyone else has always had to worry about morale, now Boyz are in the same boat. Not to mention that failing morale is way, way less punishing in 9th.

Boyz are losing some good stuff but fundamentally 9th edition heavily rewards large numbers of 10 or less point models being obsec on objectives. Drukhari showed us how powerful this is when those models are good in melee and can advance and charge on to objectives.

How about comparing them to pox walkers or wracks instead of troops of a codex that hasn't been updated?

They compare pretty favorably to marines. 90 points of boys can easily wipe out a 100 point intercessor with a couple buffs.

And I imagine they'll have some decent strats to throttle the damage and let them punch above their weight class.

lol the way they worded this means it lasts the entire game XD

it doesn't say when it ends

probably a mistake

Whoa, good catch. I didn't notice that the first time.


Reading it again... it seems totally intended to me. It says use at the start of any phase, not shoot or fight. Why would you do it in your command phase if it WASNT permanent?

Yeah, and to be honest, if you bother to spend 2CP, the selected monster or vehicle unit is likely to not survive that long.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Virules wrote:
T5 Orks at 9 points is fantastic. The problem is vanguard, rangers, wyches, and incubi being too cheap.

I would say even internally it's not great though. With no +1A from having 20 or more boyz and no more mob rule, they really don't bring anything to the table Snagga Boyz don't besides maybe shootas which are meh at best. You're better off with MSU Snagga boyz in trukks than you are with boyz atm, its worth paying the 2 point premium.

I fail to understand why people keep repeating this ad nauseum as though the Goff rules didn't leak. Goff boys can get S5 on the charge. There's your meat and potatoes.

It's an 18% points cost difference, which means that many more bodies and/or toys on the table. Nothing wrong with going the good ol slugga boy route as far as I can tell.

Per 10 man unit that's 20 points in cost savings.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 footfoe wrote:
Whoa, good catch. I didn't notice that the first time.


Reading it again... it seems totally intended to me. It says use at the start of any phase, not shoot or fight. Why would you do it in your command phase if it WASNT permanent?

ya think? i don't buy it lol
orks don't get many nice things, i expect it to be errated to 1 turn or 1 phase.

the current version of monster hunters is absurdly 3cp and lasts 1 phase, it also says use at the start of any phase.

Man, why is GW so allergic to having options for HQs nowadays.

I’m certain we aren’t getting another army wide rule. Just the underwhelming new waaaagh.

Hope you like playing 180 boyz and afking on objectives because that’s where we are headed. Again.

 Dendarien wrote:
I’m certain we aren’t getting another army wide rule. Just the underwhelming new waaaagh.

Hope you like playing 180 boyz and afking on objectives because that’s where we are headed. Again.

i heard max unit size is 20 so 20x 6 = 120 boys would be more likely i think

I’m presuming if you go all in on a boy horde you mix standard boyz with stormboyz to maximize bodies. Not snaggas.

I read smasha guns nerfed but I only see that they went to str 8? What else?

 Virules wrote:
I read smasha guns nerfed but I only see that they went to str 8? What else?

Capped at 3 per unit. Also traktor kannons no longer auto hit.

 Virules wrote:
I read smasha guns nerfed but I only see that they went to str 8? What else?

good thing GW cant do math... s8 is better against t8 then rolling 2d6 and equal 8


omg nerfing gretchin... i am speechless. the best part thought, is the +2 to saving throws in cover ...GW why dont you go F*CK yourself

Apparently I have to post this again as we're again getting into speculation again.

Source of leaks:

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/GokPAW6

Stop speculating or spreading false/incomplete information, it's right here.

gungo wrote:
Correct playtesters will not know what’s happening to fw units… fw units will get a faq/errata shortly after the codex release to add in keywords and change weapjn profiles etc… PLUS it was just in the new chapter approved so unlikely it’s gone.

Yeah I'm hoping for a quick faq for Warboss on a Warbike. That's been my favorite HQ for a long while now and I'd like to use SpeedWaaagh with him in the future.

You know I don’t think anyone ever saw Gretchin at 5ppm and said wow that unit needs a nerf!!! Especially compared to guard infantry.

The only small glimmer of okayness was zodgrod makes a unit slightly better then it was prior.

 TedNugent wrote:
Apparently I have to post this again as we're again getting into speculation again.

Source of leaks:

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/GokPAW6

Stop speculating or spreading false/incomplete information, it's right here.

Well the rumored squig rider profile includes mob rule, so there's that bit of hope.

I think most people are confusing Mob rule and Mob up. Looking at the rumors/leaks, I think we might have lost Mob Up (strat), not Mob rule.

 Nym wrote:
I think most people are confusing Mob rule and Mob up. Looking at the rumors/leaks, I think we might have lost Mob Up (strat), not Mob rule.

Even if we still have mob rule, having to pay 9ppm for boyz still makes hoards tricky.

This was the source of boys losing mob rule:

https://m.imgur.com/a/927YwRE

Squighogs at 25 points... 5 points more than an Intercessor for +4M, +2S, +2T, -1Sv, 5 S6 AP -1/2 2D attacks, and a S5/6 2D 12" shot?!