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Ok say you round a 2-4 on mishaps and your opponent can place your guys any were on the table except for lethal and impassable terrain .
can you place your enemy on the corner of the table . so when they place there models only part of them are on the table? and when you place the unit around the marker only some of the unit is on the table? is that fair or is that a un sportman like?

 StarGate wrote:
Ok say you round a 2-4 on mishaps and your opponent can place your guys any were on the table except for lethal and impassable terrain .
can you place your enemy on the corner of the table . so when they place there models only part of them are on the table? and when you place the unit around the marker only some of the unit is on the table? is that fair or is that a un sportman like?

They could cause a mishap. You have to place it so the whole unit fits on the table

From page 36 in the rulebook:

"2-3 - Misplaced. Were the coordinates slightly inaccurate, or has the enemy jammed your instruments? Your opponent may deploy the unit anywhere on the table (excluding impassable and lethal terrain, but including difficult terrain, which of course counts as dangerous for deep striking units), in a valid Deep Strike formation, but without rolling for scatter."

Note the words in bold. When the enemy deploys your unit, it must be in a valid formation, and it must be on the board - they can't just say "Alright, I put the unit in the corner, you automatically mishap because you can't fit everyone on the board."

another important thing to note is they deploy the unit, they do not place the initial model. So that means they need to place the initial model as well as all of the other models in a valid formation and all of the models must be on the board as described.

And yes, it's unsportsmanlike to want to do so.

Remember a valid deepstrike refers to how the units are placed. So, you place the initial unit down and place the remainder in a circle around the first unit. You must continue the circle from one side to the other (counter clockwise or clockwise doesn't matter.)

So you can't decide to place all the units on one side of the first unit being deployed and make a "line". Like wise, he cannot set up your units in such a way that they "fall off".

So as the previous posters have said, it has to be a valid deep strike formation as described in the above.

Now that's not a very nice thing to want to do.

What about drop pods? Could a pod be placed in the corner, as then the model was in a valid location, but the troops trying to disembark not have enough room?

Just wondering if there is a different there. Where the pod would be the model deepstriking and mishapping. And the troops then disembark in a different step of the process.

One thing to remember is that placing a unit that mishapped is not a new "Deep Strike", and therefore cannot generate a new mishap.

SJ

You can place a mishapping unit onto Difficult Terrain therefore forcing the mishapping unit to take Dangerous Terrain checks like a unit deep striking normally does, correct?

SRSFACE wrote:
You can place a mishapping unit onto Difficult Terrain therefore forcing the mishapping unit to take Dangerous Terrain checks like a unit deep striking normally does, correct?

I believe so, and I think you could place a drop pod in a location where the troops could not disembark and be "lost".

It would not be a very sportsmanlike thing to do, so I dont think I ever would, but I believe it would be legal.

SRSFACE wrote:You can place a mishapping unit onto Difficult Terrain therefore forcing the mishapping unit to take Dangerous Terrain checks like a unit deep striking normally does, correct?

Yes, this is specifically allowed in the 'Misplaced' entry.

Steel-W0LF wrote:It would not be a very sportsmanlike thing to do,...

Why not?

 insaniak wrote:

SRSFACE wrote:You can place a mishapping unit onto Difficult Terrain therefore forcing the mishapping unit to take Dangerous Terrain checks like a unit deep striking normally does, correct?

Yes, this is specifically allowed in the 'Misplaced' entry.

Steel-W0LF wrote:It would not be a very sportsmanlike thing to do,...

Why not?

I just imagine a space between two of my squads just big enough for the drop pod, placing the pod there, then telling my opponent all the troops inside are casualties because they can't disembark. It just seems like a crappy thing to do to some one. I'ld choose to place them on some portion of the board where they would be useless for a few turns while they had to reposition.

 Steel-W0LF wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

SRSFACE wrote:You can place a mishapping unit onto Difficult Terrain therefore forcing the mishapping unit to take Dangerous Terrain checks like a unit deep striking normally does, correct?

Yes, this is specifically allowed in the 'Misplaced' entry.

Steel-W0LF wrote:It would not be a very sportsmanlike thing to do,...

Why not?

I just imagine a space between two of my squads just big enough for the drop pod, placing the pod there, then telling my opponent all the troops inside are casualties because they can't disembark. It just seems like a crappy thing to do to some one. I'ld choose to place them on some portion of the board where they would be useless for a few turns while they had to reposition.

their fault for putting the drop pod some where where it can actually mishap

 Steel-W0LF wrote:
I just imagine a space between two of my squads just big enough for the drop pod, placing the pod there, then telling my opponent all the troops inside are casualties because they can't disembark. It just seems like a crappy thing to do to some one. I'ld choose to place them on some portion of the board where they would be useless for a few turns while they had to reposition.

But the whole point of the "misplaced" result is that you place them in the spot that cripples them as much as possible, and if that means auto-killing the whole squad then that's just perfect. It's no worse than just rolling "destroyed" on the mishap table, and it requires a specific situation for it to even be possible. Losing units to deep strike mishaps is just part of the game, and if you can't handle the loss then you shouldn't deep strike anything.

Added to the fact that drop pods dont mishap I think you will be ok lads!

barit wrote:
Added to the fact that drop pods dont mishap I think you will be ok lads!

This is not true. Drop pods reduce their scatter distance to avoid certain types of mishaps, but if a drop pod is initially placed in a position where it will mishap (and therefore can't reduce scatter to avoid it) or scatters off the table it will still suffer the mishap as usual. Additionally, if the drop pod arrives successfully it is still possible for the passengers to be unable to disembark (for example, a perfect drop-pod-size hole in the middle of a blob of enemy models) since the deep strike rules only considers the arriving drop pod, not the future placement of the passengers.

Why would you ever place a drop pod in a place where it would be instantly in mishap. Furthermore, is that even legal. I don't believe there is anything allowing/disallowing it but personally it just goes against common sense to try to insta-kill your own unit.

Yes placing your opponents drop pod in a manner in which it will auto kill the models within is legal but is certainly a pretty lame thing to do. If that's how you like to play then I cannot fault you for it as it is a legal move however this sort of stunt would happen at most once locally.

 dmthomas7 wrote:
Why would you ever place a drop pod in a place where it would be instantly in mishap. Furthermore, is that even legal. I don't believe there is anything allowing/disallowing it but personally it just goes against common sense to try to insta-kill your own unit.

It's not something you'd do in normal circumstances, but it's technically legal and you might do it in a rare case of desperation where ensuring that the expected scatter range/direction lines up for the 66% chance of scatter is more important than ensuring a legal arrival spot for the 33% no-scatter. Or, more likely, you might make a mistake and carelessly pick a target spot without realizing that it's going to produce a mishap (for example, thinking you're 1" clear until you roll a "hit" and measure the distance).

Yes placing your opponents drop pod in a manner in which it will auto kill the models within is legal but is certainly a pretty lame thing to do.

Again, how is it lame? The intent of "misplaced" is to hurt the unit as much as possible, it requires an extremely unusual situation to even be possible, and it's no worse an outcome than rolling "dead" on the mishap table. I really don't see where you're getting some idea of mandatory "fairness" in where you place the models and requiring them to have a chance of being relevant.

I personally feel like this while legal and technically fair, it just seems to be not in the spirit of the game. It's my personal opinion. I'm not saying you are in any way incorrect for believing otherwise but I do not play the game that way. Strictly a difference in our play styles

 dmthomas7 wrote:
I personally feel like this while legal and technically fair, it just seems to be not in the spirit of the game. It's my personal opinion. I'm not saying you are in any way incorrect for believing otherwise but I do not play the game that way. Strictly a difference in our play styles

Which still doesn't explain why you think it isn't in the spirit of the game.

It seems like a cheap win to force your opponent to completely loose an entire unit without actually doing the work. Sure it gives my opponent more of a chance to defeat me but I'd rather face my opponents full force then when after he gets handicapped several points because of a poor dice roll. It's a strange thought process maybe

Yet the same dice roll can destroy the unit. So it isn't cheap.

I enjoyed the section in the novel "Fallen Angels: deceit and betrayal" of the Horus Heresy series.
Several Drop Pods scattered of course, causing much damage to those inside. A Dreadnought was also unable to disembark after his pod landed in a building.

So sticking a mis-happen pod in these places is a very fluffy and cinematic thing to do. It's the luck of the roll, and not as bad as if they'd just rolled "destroyed".

 dmthomas7 wrote:
It seems like a cheap win to force your opponent to completely loose an entire unit without actually doing the work. Sure it gives my opponent more of a chance to defeat me but I'd rather face my opponents full force then when after he gets handicapped several points because of a poor dice roll. It's a strange thought process maybe

It's not a strange thought process. You play with honor. Honor isn't something that is quantifiable by written rules, so there's not a great way to explain yourself here. Just play the game the way it feels right to you within the rules and push on...

 Peregrine wrote:

barit wrote:
Added to the fact that drop pods dont mishap I think you will be ok lads!

This is not true. Drop pods reduce their scatter distance to avoid certain types of mishaps, but if a drop pod is initially placed in a position where it will mishap (and therefore can't reduce scatter to avoid it) or scatters off the table it will still suffer the mishap as usual. Additionally, if the drop pod arrives successfully it is still possible for the passengers to be unable to disembark (for example, a perfect drop-pod-size hole in the middle of a blob of enemy models) since the deep strike rules only considers the arriving drop pod, not the future placement of the passengers.

And my favourite Drop Pod mishap: Warp Quake!

With how much of a 'sure thing' Drop Pods usually are, I think the SMALL chance of being able to stick it to the Pod is a great way to do it. Honorable? Yes. Just as honorable at deploying in a way to restrict deep strike and flanking arrival through meta-gaming....which is done ALL the time.

Grey Knights have been able to cover an entire 6'x4' table with Warp Quakes at less than 1500pts since their 5th Ed codex was released. Generally, such a list will only work once versus an all Drop Pod or all Deep Striking army, as no one will ever deploy via Deep Strike against you ever again.

SJ

The mishap says that you have to place the model in a valid deepstrike formation. The valid formation is one model placed and the rest of the models circling it in counter clockwise or clockwise positions. If one of them falls off the table because of this, then it is not a valid deepstrike location. If you could just do that and that be legal, then there would be absolutely no reason for your opponent to take control of it and place it properly on the board. It would, in effect, just be a terrible accident would it not?

 dmthomas7 wrote:
It seems like a cheap win to force your opponent to completely loose an entire unit without actually doing the work. Sure it gives my opponent more of a chance to defeat me but I'd rather face my opponents full force then when after he gets handicapped several points because of a poor dice roll. It's a strange thought process maybe

How is that any different than placing the unit in a location where it can't contribute effectively to the fight (for example, a melta unit in the far corner where it will never get into range before the game ends)? Do you also make sure to place units in a location where your opponent can get them into the fight ASAP without suffering any real consequences from the mishap? Do you allow your opponent to ignore "dead" rolls on the mishap table because it wouldn't be "honorable" to have them be handicapped several points because of a poor dice roll? Do you let them re-roll failed armor saves and ignore "explodes" results against vehicles because they shouldn't lose too many points just because the dice are against them?