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The other day when fellow dakka user desubot suggested inquisition priests with smash and a power maul, I thought that would be an expensive but pretty neat trick. But the more I thought about it the better the idea became. Consider the following unit:

2 ordo xenos inquisitors with hammer hand, one with rad granades, both with force swords.
4 or 5 priests, 2 or 3 with power mauls
7 or 8 acolytes with lp & ccw
Landraider crusader with psybolt ammo
~550pts.

Priests roll on ld10 so will usually pass. 1 rolls for rthe reroll to wound, 1 rolls for the reroll for armour save, the other 2 or 3 roll for smash.
Being zelots the unit also gets rerolls to hit on the charge. If using the smash attack rather than just smash, the 2 or 3 priests will get 2 st 8 ap 2 at initiative attacks each, rerolling to hit and wound. The two hammerhands take this upto st10, whilst the rad granades lower opponents toughness by 1, making t6 MCs t5. Even if the opponent makes a challenge (supposing it is a character MC), you just deny, so 1 priest cannot attack. This leaves 2 or 4 attacks (depending if you took 2 or 3) rerolling to hit on a 4+ and rerolling to wound on a 2+ with no armour saves allowed, each attack causing ID (4 attacks cause ever so slightly under 3 ID wounds on a fex brood, meaning most the time the brood will be wiped in one round). If the opponent could not challenge, that is an extra 2 attacks. The acolytes are wound sponges who will have 3 st 5 (wounding on 4+) attacks rerolling to hit and wound themselves for the ones who survive. If the opponent does somehow manage to down all the acolytes then the priests have a 4++ rerollable themselves. Tbf the extra armour save priest isnt really needed either unless going for a second or third fex brood.
This isnt a point sink death star as after the unit takes too many casualties the inquisitors can move off to buff other units and the landraider is still around to support or has drawn plenty of enemy firepower itself, and lets be honest - a psybolt crusader is FAR better than the usual raiders. The actual cost of the unit minus the landraider and inquisitors that can be used elsewhere afterwards only comes to between 101pts (for 3 priests, 2 with power mauls and 9 acolytes - this unit will still get the same job done) to 198 pts (5 priests, 3 with powermauls and 7 acolytes - gets the rerollable save plus more ID attacks, better if the mc can challenge as you will still have 4 attacks so can pretty much guarantee an insta gib).
Focus all the anti troop firepower you can bring to bear (which can be A LOT in an inquisition list) against any bubble wrapping gaunt units to clear the way for the raider.
Against T5 MCs you don't even need the hammerhands and the inquisitors can instead have prescience to buff other units.
Support this unit with dirt cheap acolyte units in chimeras to target any unit that will potentially tarpit the unit once the MC/MC brood is gone.


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Btw the initial unit put forward is the more expensive version.


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I have been led to believe hammerhand stacks and you test priests on the highest ld score of the unit since it is a ld test. These are of course important factors.


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This was also meant to be in tactics. Just seen it is in army lists. Third time this has happened with touch screen phone... grrrrrr!

If this works.....then this seems crazy...

It gets even better against multiwound t4 units as they will have double the attacks as they can just go for smash rather than smash attack, giving each priest 4 st 7 ap 2 attacks at initiative rerolling to hit and wound attacks and the t4 will be reduced to t3 for the ID. From 3 priests that would average 9 hits, and about 8 to 9 ID wounds. Not counting the 10 st 5 ap 3 reroll to hit and wound off the inquisitors and the mass st5 ap- attacks off the acolytes and priest/s without mauls, also rerolling to hit and wound.

It works, but it is 500-600 points and if your ride gets blown up, you are dead. Also, you only get one shot at it. If you kill the unit you charge, you will now die horribly to any shooting that comes your way. You can also take the scout book, if I remember correctly to make it even funnier.

Am I the one to say it? What an awesome, broken game we play.

True but then they have invested in shooting the raider. I don't really class the raiders points as part of the unit because it pays for itself with 12 st5 ap5 tl shots, 4 st7 ap4 tl rending shots and a multimelta to boot. Also the tyranids best anti raider units are the mcs - the mcs you want the unit to get near. Unless the opponents shooting utterly wipes out the unit, you have 2 inquisitors who can move off to buff other units. So you have lost only a 101 to 198pt unit, which isnt a big deal for the potential damage it can cause.
Also if supported with other units, whilst the opponents fire power is directed at your av14 landraider and sub 200pt unit (with some 4++s in there), all your other fragile yet exceptionally shooty units haven't been focused on. Its win-win in my books that. Thats the inquisitions main weakness - all the powerfully shooty units are fragile, so if you've made the opponent focus on a raider you're letting them play into your hands.


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roxor08 wrote:
Am I the one to say it? What an awesome, broken game we play.

Haha it is definitely a touch broken!

On the other hand, you don't really need a crazy trick to annihilate nids.

I don't know... not faced a new dex fex spam yet so couldn't say, but I will admit the prospect worries me. It works against other mcs too. Although not as effectively - riptides can try and get away and tau fire power should bring this to the ground, wraithknight are t8 so maybe no ID but plenty of wounds onto the thing. Combat deamons it'll screw IF it can catch them, but then just leave it near units they want to get at. Nobs, wraiths (although 3++ dilutes it), most non EW ICs, Mephy, non mc tyranid multiwounds, cents, etc would have a cause for concern too.


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Hadn't thought about it until now - but also putting 6 st 10 ap2 hits on tanks...

Correct me if I'm wrong.... ( which could be as I'm not great with these dex) Maul gives you S+2... priest base S is 3.. so just with the maul and smash.. your at s10... there is no need for hammer hand.

My next question is, how are you getting them into the landraider? Is there something in the codex that lets them overstep the BB rule of no allies in transports? You just using it as a screen?

All three main types of Landraider are dedicated transport for inquisition, plus they get psybolts :-)! Also unfortunately strength buffs don't work like that. The multiplier comes before the addition. So it would be st3 x2 then +2.


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I wish it were otherwise!

It seems a lot to spend on extra units when an ap3 force sword with boosted strength and re-roll to hit and wound will pop MC too.

 Roci wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong.... ( which could be as I'm not great with these dex) Maul gives you S+2... priest base S is 3.. so just with the maul and smash.. your at s10... there is no need for hammer hand.

Multiply then add. So S3*2 +2 = S8

 Roci wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong.... ( which could be as I'm not great with these dex) Maul gives you S+2... priest base S is 3.. so just with the maul and smash.. your at s10... there is no need for hammer hand.

My next question is, how are you getting them into the landraider? Is there something in the codex that lets them overstep the BB rule of no allies in transports? You just using it as a screen?

S3x2+2=8. You apply the addition after the multiplication.

DOOMONYOU wrote:
It seems a lot to spend on extra units when an ap3 force sword with boosted strength and re-roll to hit and wound will pop MC too.

Those 10 st 5 ap3 attacks will on average (against ws 4 or better opponents) cause about 5 wounds on a t6 but have no force points for the weapon after casting hammerhand. 2 priests however outright kill 3 fexes on average. Besides - the cheap version only costs 101pts more and you still get those 4 ID attacks, reroll to wound and hit skills and 9 wound sponges... thats pretty cheap tbf.

Unless you're hellbent on using Inquisition for this, just chuck Lysander at the 'fexes. Dat str 10 hammer.

550 points isn't 40 points, and the unit is vulnerable to anti geq firepower after it gets out of the land raider..

Hooray im helping.

It seems HH doesn't do the pre multiplication stack like the GK book (though i suppose you can shove a GK bb inquisitor for more lulz).

To bad GK cant get biomancy for addition enfeeble.
Though its possible to ally in some DA for the other rad grenade and biomancy(?) to instagiv T8 models.


Edit: But to have lysander would mean you have to ether start outside of the landraider or have a second raider or other form of locomotion to get into the same combat.

Shadenfreude - 1. It doesn't get out of the land raider and sit around - it assaults out of the landraider straight into combat with the mcs.
2. It is not a 550 pt unit. It is a landraider crusader, which has many other uses especially with psybolts, 2 IC characters which can buff and join other units when this one has taken too much hurt, and a 101 to 198pt unit. As I said in the OP don't think about this as a single unit death star - thats too narrow an approach to look at this with. 101pts IS cheap for the unit itself.
3. The first 7 to 9 removed models will be cheap 4pt models who are there for that exact reason.
4. The thread states a 40pt model. It is a 40pt model which is killing 1.5 t6 mcs each per turn on average.


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Does HH not stack for inquisition? Not that I don't believe you - just wondering where that has come from? A few dakka users have suggested it stacks so I assumed it does. If not can this not just be taken as GK and stack it that way? Not familiar with their dex so I aren't sure.


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Just looked - definitely cannot see anything in its wording or the rulebook that prevents it from stacking. Unless there is an faq/errata I am unaware of it seems safe!


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 obsidiankatana wrote:
Unless you're hellbent on using Inquisition for this, just chuck Lysander at the 'fexes. Dat str 10 hammer.

Lysander is great but far more expensive for the same job. He would still need a rad granade inquisitor to ID. And then we are still talking taking the landraider to get him there plus a different one for the inquisitor. Whilst the land raiders can do their own thing afterwards and so aren't part of the lysander unit, it'll still start to get very expensive very quickly. This unit only costs as low as 101pts and will only require one raider to get them there.

The squad has a lot of potential, but it can also flop after mauling a squad.

A LRC with psybolt is pretty beefy in the 6th ed meta. Stock wraithknights are the most common unit taudar have to deal with it in 6th ed.

7 to 9 ablative wounds is hit or miss. It can work well, or be ignored through barrage or shooting the squad from the rear.

The unit and land raider are priced right, can work well, but can be countered.

Poly Ranger wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Unless you're hellbent on using Inquisition for this, just chuck Lysander at the 'fexes. Dat str 10 hammer.

Lysander is great but far more expensive for the same job. He would still need a rad granade inquisitor to ID. And then we are still talking taking the landraider to get him there plus a different one for the inquisitor. Whilst the land raiders can do their own thing afterwards and so aren't part of the lysander unit, it'll still start to get very expensive very quickly. This unit only costs as low as 101pts and will only require one raider to get them there.

The glory of terminator armor is not needing a Land Raider. DS is always on the table - unless your Inquisitorial posse is getting a T2 charge off.

I'm not sure where your 101pt figure is coming from though. I mean, I read your post, and I see the numbers, but you can't really take out the cost of the Inquisitors since they're mandatory to getting the unit's job done. Removing them makes the unit meh at best, since you lose hammerhand, grenades, and the Ld10 for the priests. Sure, they CAN buff other units (with hammerhand? how many assault units are in this scenario?), but their duties lay with the murdersquad. Running a couple of Inquisitors with 1-2 priests and some Crusaders (for sexy 3++ re-rollables) seems to be a more effective method for delivering the grenades (so you only need one Inquisitor in this scenario) after which Lysander lays down the law, needing no leadership check to do so. Admittedly this is weaker for needing 3 turns to line up and the potential for Lysander to get locked out via challenge, but then your Inquisitor steps up to the plate re-rolling wounds. One nick of the force sword and your MC troubles end anyway.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Shadenfreude - 1. It doesn't get out of the land raider and sit around - it assaults out of the landraider straight into combat with the mcs.
2. It is not a 550 pt unit. It is a landraider crusader, which has many other uses especially with psybolts, 2 IC characters which can buff and join other units when this one has taken too much hurt, and a 101 to 198pt unit. As I said in the OP don't think about this as a single unit death star - thats too narrow an approach to look at this with. 101pts IS cheap for the unit itself.
3. The first 7 to 9 removed models will be cheap 4pt models who are there for that exact reason.
4. The thread states a 40pt model. It is a 40pt model which is killing 1.5 t6 mcs each per turn on average.


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Does HH not stack for inquisition? Not that I don't believe you - just wondering where that has come from? A few dakka users have suggested it stacks so I assumed it does. If not can this not just be taken as GK and stack it that way? Not familiar with their dex so I aren't sure.


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Just looked - definitely cannot see anything in its wording or the rulebook that prevents it from stacking. Unless there is an faq/errata I am unaware of it seems safe!

reliably.

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 obsidiankatana wrote:
Unless you're hellbent on using Inquisition for this, just chuck Lysander at the 'fexes. Dat str 10 hammer.

Its a "same Psychic power" issue. IF you play they stack then things like Paroxsym that reduce W and B become very annoying as suddenly youcan make that W9 or bs5 unit W1 BS1

The issue with Terminator armor is that you cant give one to a xeno inquisitor :(.

Stacking the power should be fine though i think theres a whole YMDC thread for that.

There is however a difference between inq and GK in that hammer hand in gk specifically states the +1S is applied Before other modifiers like having a Nemesis daemon hammer.

schadenfreude wrote:550 points isn't 40 points, and the unit is vulnerable to anti geq firepower after it gets out of the land raider..

Yeah... this seems like this unit would work exactly once per game, and then it just gets instantly slaughtered. Also, as mentioned, there are some complications, like the slim possibility of the land raider getting destroyed, or the much more worrying idea of your opponent getting to overwatch (it doesn't look like this squad can take more than 1 or 2 casualties and still be nearly as effective), or the pretty serious chance that one or two of the big pile of psychic powers won't get off. Or, of course, your opponents don't bring T6 monstrous creatures, and what then?

The other problem, too, is the opportunity cost. Lots of armies can ally in with guard. For 550 points, guard can give you a CCS, and an infantry platoon with three infantry squads, and 2 HWSs which gives you a total of 11 lascannons with access to twin-linking against monstrous creatures (and 10 points to spare for a pair of BS4 sniper rifles or something). Assuming that you can issue orders, and that one of the two of them passes, that's 6.4 lascannon hits. Against a riptide, that's 3 or 4 wounds off in a single round of shooting. Against a T6 Sv3+ monstrous creature, that's 5 or 6 wounds stripped off.

So, it accomplishes nearly the same thing, except that it can start turn 1 (rather than turn whenever it gets into close combat, if it even makes it there), and it's MUCH better against vehicles of all kinds, and with all those lasguns it's even better against hordes. It does the same or more damage faster, to more target types, and more reliably, and, in the case of battle brothers, also provides a big pile of scoring units.

Or, if you rock the forgeworld cheese, guard allies will also give you access to a squad of 3 beast-hunter vanquishers, which will just mow them down like guardsmen to a squad of burnas.

I mean, if you're already doing land raider spam, then this wouldn't be a terrible thing to add in (unless you're GK, and have access to DCAs), but as a hard counter to carnifex spam, I'm not particularly impressed.

C:Inq does have access to DCA and crusaders

really though everything they do against t6 monsters work just as well against anything else in the game.

it is still a fearless unit that can have AP2 power mauls that can smash up to st10 which will kill anything really.

The only issue is that it is a melee focused unit and well we know how that is in 6th right now.

But it still has great potential. the only one i can see it having problems with is creamer stars 2++ nonsense.

Edit: Though for the same cost could be better. they still are not fearless, need searchlights (for t1 anyway though its a bit moot) and unless encamped inside terrain will die in droves just as fast to any sort of fire.

Though god help me i hope they add those beast shells into the new ig

Or hordes.

Killed my 50 point speedbump I didn't care about? Lost how many models? Interesting... here's some FRF lasguns/burnas/shootas/bolters/anything. And you brought your land raider into melta range to boot. Thanks!

Wait when did orks become part of this?

and why in the world would you even bother sending up a land raider into melta range when you should be shooting the st 5/5 hurricanes and st 7/4 rending assault cannons into the units caring them.

At which point this is off topic.

I sometimes run a similar unit but with crusaders to toughen the unit up. With a priest making the saves rerollable during the assault phase the unit takes few overwatch or CC casualties.

For a unit to handle MCs this is pretty expensive and somewhat niche due to its CC focus.

how about rad grenades and then the s10 orbital strike from Karamazov?

Rad grenades from GK or Inq only effect the first assault.

Rad from Ravenwing grenade launchers do work though.

 Desubot wrote:
Rad grenades from GK or Inq only effect the first assault.

Rad from Ravenwing grenade launchers do work though.

Truth...well...if bugs are a problem...I still recommend crusaders to tank wounds and a lance strike from karamazov

Or psyk out if it's a psyker...autowound