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What is this war about anyhow?

Some systems and organizations don't want to be part of the Republic anymore. How does that justify war?

NB4 you're not supposed to think about SW. NB4 the Republic is a tyranny.

 Manchu wrote:
What is this war about anyhow?

Beyond Palpatine organizing it so he could take over and form the Empire?

The cover story was something about corruption in the Senate and Jedi Council. The Separatist worlds sought reform of the government whilst the Republic citizens saw the Separatists as conquerors and power mongers.

Yeah, I get why the Separatists wanted to withdraw from the Republic. What I don't get is how that turned into a war.

 Manchu wrote:
Yeah, I get why the Separatists wanted to withdraw from the Republic. What I don't get is how that turned into a war.

Because George Lucas! Thats why! http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/ The plot makes no f-ing sense!

 Manchu wrote:
What I don't get is how that turned into a war.

Palpatine.


I know it seems like that's a cop out answer, but that's the reason. He ordered the Clones, he had Dooku put in charge of the Separatists, he had the attacks on Amidala organized so that Naboo would side with forming an army and declaring war.

War happened because he planned one and moved all the pieces into place to start it.

They were blockading neutral planets to force them to join were they not? I believe that that was the reason the war on Naboo started at least.

 Platuan4th wrote:
side with forming an army and declaring war

Declaring a war over what? When did it become an act of war to leave the Republic?

I think you might be missing the question here, which is not what did Palpatine do secretly.

 Goliath wrote:
They were blockading neutral planets to force them to join were they not? I believe that that was the reason the war on Naboo started at least.

The Trade Federation was a full member of the Republic during Episode I.

 Manchu wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
side with forming an army and declaring war

Declaring a war over what? When did it become an act of war to leave the Republic?

That's the thing, nothing I've read about it says. It mentions the attacks on Senator Amidala being part of the reason, but never expressly says why they declared war other than Palpatine wanted to.

Best I can find is the summary from Wikipedia, but there's absolutely no citations supporting it:

The war has different causes: the Republic's Chancellor Palpatine tells his people that the war began because of several different reasons such as the years of separation by the outer rim territories, as well as the separatists' capture of the Jedi and financing of rebellions by radical states within the Republic. While these are all true, Palpatine had covertly influenced and created these events with assistance from his secret apprentices.

There's also mention of the Separatist Crisis, which the Wookiepedia does mention some of the politics of, but again, LOTS of mentions about Dooku and Palpatine.

Same why the North didnt want the South to secede. They wanted to keep the union together

 Platuan4th wrote:
nothing I've read about it says

Same here. Just wondered if anyone else had noticed this giant gaping plot hole.

 Manchu wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
nothing I've read about it says

Same here. Just wondered if anyone else had noticed this giant gaping plot hole.

It's only a giant gaping plot hole if you don't have one person running both sides of the war.

Secessionist movements are not generally well-received by the Government. See American Civil War, War of American Independence, the end of colonialism, etc.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
What I don't get is how that turned into a war.

Palpatine.


I know it seems like that's a cop out answer, but that's the reason. He ordered the Clones, he had Dooku put in charge of the Separatists, he had the attacks on Amidala organized so that Naboo would side with forming an army and declaring war.

War happened because he planned one and moved all the pieces into place to start it.

This. The initial bid of the Trade Federation to take over Naboo (at Palpatine's needling) spilled over into a larger conflict that eventually became a war.

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's only a giant gaping plot hole if you don't have one person running both sides of the war.

That's not a sufficient explanation. Palpatine did not have the authority to simply decree a war into existence when the Clone War began, nor would doing so have suited any other part of his strategy that we see.

 Manchu wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
nothing I've read about it says

Same here. Just wondered if anyone else had noticed this giant gaping plot hole.

I noticed, I just put it down to Palpatine's ability to control people.

I mean, he made an entire planet forget there was a Super Star Destroyer buried on Coruscant, it's entirely plausible he could make the Senate declare war without actually knowing why they did it.

Look, you guys are trying to makes sense of a plot that doesn't exist. Just call it a trade dispute between the trade federation and Naboo. Has nothing to do with the republic or the senate, except that they are both members. Its a flimsy and weak plot full of wholes and crap....but so are all the prequels.

As for the war with the separatists. Thats basically a civil war, that we get thrown into the middle......without much of an explanation.

 Jimsolo wrote:
The initial bid of the Trade Federation to take over Naboo (at Palpatine's needling) spilled over into a larger conflict that eventually became a war.

That doesn't explain anything. The Trade Federation blockade collapsed before the Confederacy even existed.

The Clone Wars began with the Republic invasion of Geonosis. Me question is, what was the legal justification for that invasion?

 Manchu wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's only a giant gaping plot hole if you don't have one person running both sides of the war.

That's not a sufficient explanation. Palpatine did not have the authority to simply decree a war into existence when the Clone War began, nor would doing so have suited any other part of his strategy that we see.

I'm pretty sure that his "strategy" was to have the Separatists be more and more belligerent.

I mean, let's face facts here. The Trade Federation blockading Naboo is not the act of a populace wanting to "withdraw from the Republic".

 Manchu wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
The initial bid of the Trade Federation to take over Naboo (at Palpatine's needling) spilled over into a larger conflict that eventually became a war.

That doesn't explain anything. The Trade Federation blockade collapsed before the Confederacy even existed.

The Clone Wars began with the Republic invasion of Geonosis. Me question is, what was the legal justification for that invasion?

That the seperatists had imprisoned and were on the verge of excecuting a member of the senate along with two jedi? and that they had been constructing a huge droid army?

 Kanluwen wrote:
The Trade Federation blockading Naboo is not the act of a populace wanting to "withdraw from the Republic".

That blockade has nothing to do with the Clone Wars.

Papaltine was granted emergency powers by the senate to end the conflict with the trade federation.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's only a giant gaping plot hole if you don't have one person running both sides of the war.

That's not a sufficient explanation. Palpatine did not have the authority to simply decree a war into existence when the Clone War began, nor would doing so have suited any other part of his strategy that we see.

I'm pretty sure that his "strategy" was to have the Separatists be more and more belligerent.

I mean, let's face facts here. The Trade Federation blockading Naboo is not the act of a populace wanting to "withdraw from the Republic".

To be fair the blockade was originally in response to increased taxation on outer rim trade routes; you're conflating the Trade Federation (EP1) and the Confederation of Independent Systems (EP2/3). The Trade Federation wanted less taxes; the CIS wanted to seccede, but was created by Palpatine and executed terrorist attacks in order to push both sides towards a war.

 Goliath wrote:

Manchu wrote:The Clone Wars began with the Republic invasion of Geonosis. Me question is, what was the legal justification for that invasion?

That the seperatists had imprisoned and were on the verge of excecuting a member of the senate along with two jedi? and that they had been constructing a huge droid army?

You mean Jedi and a Senator who had illegally infiltrated sovereign territory for the explicit purposes of espionage? And we know it's not illegal to manufacture or operate a huge droid army.

 kronk wrote:
Papaltine was granted emergency powers by the senate to end the conflict with the trade federation.

The Trade Federation? Wha? No, the emergency powers were granted to deal with the secessionist crisis. Exactly how the response of TOTAL WAR was justified is what's at issue ITT.

 Manchu wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
The initial bid of the Trade Federation to take over Naboo (at Palpatine's needling) spilled over into a larger conflict that eventually became a war.

That doesn't explain anything. The Trade Federation blockade collapsed before the Confederacy even existed.

The Clone Wars began with the Republic invasion of Geonosis. Me question is, what was the legal justification for that invasion?

1. Yoda was bored.
2. Yoda's piles were acting up.
3. Yoda discovers he has an army to play with and jedi (who evidently rate on the moral equivalency scale at 1,000 clones for every Jedi or something totally immoral like that) and wants to see things go BOOM.

Otherwise don't see it. We have come guys saying "lets do this" then the Republic promptly stomps on two of them. I would have taken that as a hint and said...er...never mind.

Considering the way that the Trade Federation acted on Naboo, I assumed that the Separatists would have acted in a similarly brutal way against other planets. The Separatists seem to be made up of groups that are presented in such a way that it appears as if their motivations are greed and power - Trade Federation, Techno Union, Banking Clan, Genonosians etc etc All have substantial war making assets.

Palpatine just manipulates these groups that are already in tune with the Dark Side of the Force and gives them a little push. Their brutal actions then justify him creating his own personal army... er I mean "First Grand Army of the Republic".

We all know that Lucas is an absurdly gakky writer, right? You're not going to square this circle with anything provided in the movies. You need to invent something in your head, as with much, much, much, much, much of the Star Wars stuff. And I say that not having read an EU novel since I was 13.

I don't think any good reason for the war was ever given other than 'Palpatine made it happen.' But yeah. G Lucas wrote the story, so what did we expect?

 LordofHats wrote:
I don't think any good reason for the war was ever given other than 'Palpatine made it happen.' But yeah. G Lucas wrote the story, so what did we expect?

Its not that G Lucas wrote the story. Its that nobody questions him or improves his ideas anymore. The first draft for star wars was GAK, but other people reined him in. Anymore people just take his money and nod yes, hence the three prequels and that awful Indiana Jones movie.

Don't try to find reason in any of his films anymore. George has basically gone through the change like Anikin, falling to the dark easy path of effects.. He originally wanted stories with some cool effects, now all he wants is Effects with a little bit of story.

ITS A TRAP!

Star Wars isn't an in-depth critique of realpolitik.

In other news, Gordon's Alive!!!! rocks the Empire of Mongo.

Let's look at something more serious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJSQFzw1pEE

This seems like a question for: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/