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Im just getting into IG and I really like the Manticore model. Is it worth it to take it? Also what are the best targets for it to shoot at?

TableTopJosh wrote:
Im just getting into IG and I really like the Manticore model. Is it worth it to take it? Also what are the best targets for it to shoot at?

Yes. Vehicles and anything else really. Anything with a 3+ can try to save but if they miss that str 10 pie plate will hurt.

Edit: Derp!

I've always found the Manticore to be an effective weapon, especially when you roll a three for you number of warheads, it can just decimate clumped up units.

 alarmingrick wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:
Im just getting into IG and I really like the Manticore model. Is it worth it to take it? Also what are the best targets for it to shoot at?

Yes. Vehicles and anything else really. Anything with a 4+ can try to save but if they miss that str 10 pie plate will hurt.

You mean a 3+ ? It's AP4
It's a very good tank, just keep it out of harms way.

 grendel083 wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:

TableTopJosh wrote:
Im just getting into IG and I really like the Manticore model. Is it worth it to take it? Also what are the best targets for it to shoot at?

Yes. Vehicles and anything else really. Anything with a 4+ can try to save but if they miss that str 10 pie plate will hurt.

You mean a 3+ ? It's AP4

What I mean, not what I type!
I fixed it, thanks!

The Manticore is an excellent tank since it packs a lot of pieplates for one FOC slot which gives you more options for what you pack in your precious HS slots. It excells at mauling hordes. However, my favorite use for the thing is taking out objective campers. Once a single manticore shot of mine took out most of a kroot pack. They failed their morale check and ran off the table.

But anecdotes don't mean much when deciding how effective a unit is. I bet there are tales of Vanguard Vets doing great things despite how generally terrible they are. The Manticore's biggest weakness is that the Colossus, shot for shot, is better since it ignores cover. While it is S6 the targets you want to be shooting the Manticore with are generally T4 or worse so you don't lose much. In addition, it's AP3. So you have to ask yourself: Would you rather have a lot of okay shots or few really good shots?

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The Manticore is an excellent tank since it packs a lot of pieplates for one FOC slot which gives you more options for what you pack in your precious HS slots. It excells at mauling hordes. However, my favorite use for the thing is taking out objective campers. Once a single manticore shot of mine took out most of a kroot pack. They failed their morale check and ran off the table.

But anecdotes don't mean much when deciding how effective a unit is. I bet there are tales of Vanguard Vets doing great things despite how generally terrible they are. The Manticore's biggest weakness is that the Colossus, shot for shot, is better since it ignores cover. While it is S6 the targets you want to be shooting the Manticore with are generally T4 or worse so you don't lose much. In addition, it's AP3. So you have to ask yourself: Would you rather have a lot of okay shots or few really good shots?

To me I'd rather have the Manticore over the Colossus. I'd rather take the str 10 all day long over the AP3. And I'd probably take the Griffon over the Colossus. You could take 2 for 10 points more over the 1 Colossus.
2 str 6 pie plates with rerolling the scatter seems better to me. YMMV.

Manticores perform exceedingly well at a few tasks.

-Killing Large groups of SV4+ or worse models
-Instant Deathing Multi-wound units Toughness 5 or worse
-Penetrating Vehicles

Those three go from order of Best-in-codex to solid competitor. The Manticore performs quite well in its roles, and if you need the aforementioned things done by a unit in your Heavy Slot, it is a great choice for the job.

-TheCaptain

 TheCustomLime wrote:
But anecdotes don't mean much when deciding how effective a unit is. I bet there are tales of Vanguard Vets doing great things despite how generally terrible they are. The Manticore's biggest weakness is that the Colossus, shot for shot, is better since it ignores cover. While it is S6 the targets you want to be shooting the Manticore with are generally T4 or worse so you don't lose much. In addition, it's AP3. So you have to ask yourself: Would you rather have a lot of okay shots or few really good shots?

Killing hordes I'd go with the Colossus, ignores cover is a great bonus.

But personally I see the manticore as more of a heavy tank killer than an horde killer.
A large vehicle like a Land Raider you can get up to 3 Str10 hits on, with the penetration bonus due to Ordnance. It also hits side armour (no difference on a Land Raider, but something like a Leman Russ or preadator...).
I know the big spead of templated makes it look like a great horde killer (str10 is overkill for that roll) but heavy vehicles is where it's potential lies.

Yeah, the Manticore's pretty awesome, but I'd hold off for a month because the Guard are getting an update very soon.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Yeah, the Manticore's pretty awesome, but I'd hold off for a month because the Guard are getting an update very soon.

Actually a good point. May have some new and interesting toys soon!

I would still get started on basic troops and a commander or 2. They'll likely still be needed and will give you something to keep busy with until the new 'dex hits.

Well you can literally anything in the game with it, with the exception of flying units.

But, as others have said, wait until the new codex comes out to see what happens to it / other units.

I'm not big on the manticore, especially since 6th edition dropped.

The problem is that the heavy support needs to do the heavy lifting - hitting your opponent's big, scary stuff before it rips apart your army. The manticore doesn't really do this.

Does it hurt your opponent's fliers? No. Does it hurt your opponent's monstrous creatures? Probably not much, as you're not getting to fire very many shots, and any MC is going to get their armor save (likely 2+ or 3+) against it, and S10 won't cause instant death (and won't hurt them at all if they're FMC). Will it blow up their heavy tanks? With Ap4, it's rather less likely. More likely that you're going to spend half the game trying to strip HP off of it. Will it crunch those terminators? Once again, not with Ap4 it won't, and that's before we consider terminators being on larger bases.

So if it's not good against your opponent's heavy hitters, then what is it good against? Well, stuff with Sv4+ or worse, and that isn't in ruins, or cover. So... stuff with a terrible armor save that's plowing straight into your stuff.

Last I checked, that's what lasguns and FRF are for, and what all those free heavy weapons you get on chimeras are for. The imperial guard is hardly in need of a crowd-clearer, especially one that doesn't ignore cover saves, and especially one that's using up a HS slot.

As such, manticores fill a niche you don't need filled, and they do it with precious points and slots (especially since they can't squadron).

If you're playing at really low points values, where you're not going to fill HS slots anyways, and where a bigger portion of your opponent's army is going to be crappy infantry, then I guess I could see it, but with only Ap4, and stuck with a large blast profile, manticores have a lot more bark than bite.

They are pretty cool models, though...

Manticore is great model and solid unit. But, if you are asking just about efficiency, Manticore problem is fact that HS slot is full of good Big-Bada-Boom and 160 points is...a lot. And AP4 honestly sucks for 160 points. Unless you are sure to be firing at mobs of low armored opponents I think there are better candidates.

For mere "Drop There a Pieplate, Soldier!" I cant take a word against trusty Basilisk - for 125 points. Thats huge points difference and AP3. And what I cannot crush with earthshaker cannon I crush with AT weapons.
For "IG SMASH!" use Medusa. Beware range and gloat your shell-drilled opponents.
Colossus is "I said NO cover". Nuff said.
Aaand Giffon is Ugly Cheap duckling. 10 points cheaper than Manticore is guaranteed two large blasts (two griffons) with reroll of scatter dice.

BUT

Manticore isnt bad unit. Its no rough riders or ogryn, just its not cheap. But if you like the model, if you like the fluff and you are not addicted to "Oh my god, I must be competetive in every second of my wargaming life" its not wrong choice. It has its limits, but its not useless. It really depends on your meta. In some cases its deadly...in some you opponent just rolls and smiles because of AP.

 alarmingrick wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Yeah, the Manticore's pretty awesome, but I'd hold off for a month because the Guard are getting an update very soon.

Actually a good point. May have some new and interesting toys soon!

I would still get started on basic troops and a commander or 2. They'll likely still be needed and will give you something to keep busy with until the new 'dex hits.

Yeah, make sure they're Infantry platoons though. Vets are getting changed up from the sounds of things.

I'm hoping for some interesting changes to conscripts, I've got an army building up at the moment that would make Chenkov proud.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Yeah, the Manticore's pretty awesome, but I'd hold off for a month because the Guard are getting an update very soon.

Actually a good point. May have some new and interesting toys soon!

I would still get started on basic troops and a commander or 2. They'll likely still be needed and will give you something to keep busy with until the new 'dex hits.

Yeah, make sure they're Infantry platoons though. Vets are getting changed up from the sounds of things.

I'm hoping for some interesting changes to conscripts, I've got an army building up at the moment that would make Chenkov proud.

Not just that but rumors also point to a big change in the HQ section indicating that the only option is a CCS with the option to upgrade Commander to a Commissar. So who knows if commissars will even be in platoons anymore. But to be safe just stick with basic troops at the moment. With the codex about a month away I would just hold out and wait.

The manticore is a pretty solid artillery unit but it has a weak chasis with it only being a chimeras armor. With all the ignore cover in this edition I presonally have rarely used my manticore except in apoc games where I have bigger threats for my opponent to focus on.

Is the Manticore effective? YES.

It has one weakness, AP4. The strength 10 is great. Target priority is the area that each player needs to work on. Infantry, if it has a 3+ save, you might get a good amount f them. 2+, might not be worth the shot. It is great for taking out mass infantry though. Anything with a 4+ will be taken out. Learn the rules for cover saves. With the manticore, it isn't where the shot is coming from, it is where the shot lands in relation to the targets.

Vehicles: It can take out vehicles with ease. Landraiders too. The strength 10 ordnance shot, means you get to roll two dice to determine the penetration when you hit a vehicle. Also, line of sight is not needed for this to happen.

I usually run 2 manticore in my 1750 list or better. Hide it behind an ADL, and, you now have a nice 4+ cover save.

Manticore's effectiveness is hit by 6 ed rules and new army-building concepts. It's still very good vs av14 spam and stuff like biker nobz which you can meet from time to time but they're a waste vs mc's, wave serpents and stuff with 2+ or in good cover.

On the sidenote, telling that roughriders are worthless is a bit wrong. They're extremely good vs 3+ guyz if you can hide rr behind blos for long enough cause the moment they get in the open - they die. I've had luck with a full squad + Mogul Kamir. They've left no chances to bright lances, assault marines and even killed gk interceptors. They're true glass cannons with insane damage output but abysmal survivability.

Regarding the fact that you're Manticore wont instant blow up a landraider with AP4. Well what are the alternative results:
1-2 snap shots only and the passengers can only snap shoot
3 cannot move and the passengers can't even fire if they disembark
4 meh
5 immobilised which is tactically almost as good as destroyed early on since you force the payload to footslog across the board

Also when looking at the AP4 consider cover/invulnerable saves. If you are pie plating some TH/SS terminators D3 S10 AP4 is as effective as a vindicator round AP2

Honestly who is bringing av14 vehicles besides other guard players. The manticore's strength is its ability to do many things well. It doesn't really exceed in any category, but it is never a bad option. It is also a kick ass model. I say get one if it would please you.

Oh, I'd also chip in that manticores can't take upgrades. Russes can be upgraded with two plasma cannons and a lascannon, while manticores only have the one gun and that's it.

This is especially bad given that they have worse armor, so a weapon destroyed result is more likely.

It's also not great in the meta either. If someone can shoot down a necron flying circus or take down a triptide list, then they should have no problems blowing up an AV12 manticore, and those same manticores aren't good at blowing up necron flying circuses or taking down riptides.

It's why russes are so much stronger at the moment - fewer people are able to handle AV14, and they can come with the firepower to shoot down fliers and monstrous creatures.

Ehhh, the more LoS blocking terrain you have the better the manticore does. Hide it well and it'll do alright. They're great at cracking tau castles and tightly packed vehicles. Mediocre versus elitist armies, really depends on your meta.

 Ailaros wrote:


It's why russes are so much stronger at the moment - fewer people are able to handle AV14, and they can come with the firepower to shoot down fliers and monstrous creatures.

I wouldn't say your points previous to this are false, they're very valid and identify that the Manticore is quite meta-dependant, but I will contest this one in asking:

Do Russes really come with the firepower to shoot down fliers and MCs? The best Leman Russes currently, being the Demolisher, Executioner, and (Meta-dependent) Eradicator's only real option for anti flyer is the Hull Lascannon, and Aside from the Executioner, these Russes don't really have the shot-volume to dent MCs all too significantly, maybe one or two wounds a turn. Meanwhile russes suffer from being slow, and very vulnerable to charges even from basic non-assault units.

Just a thought, though honestly my experience with Russes lacks lately.
-TheCaptain

I love the Manticore for what it makes my opponent do. Lots of times there will be a really nicely placed LOS blocking terrain piece on the board, and the opposing army likes to huddle up lots of units behind it to prevent much of my army from firing on it in the first turn. Alternatively, the other army has a huge number of its units behind an Aegis line. The Manticore severely punishes that sort of formation. You just drop those blasts in the thick of things and make all those units get a haircut before you have to start dealing with them.

Even if that isn't the sort of thing you see, two (average) S10 Ordinance shots per turn that are really accurate against big AV14 stuff give a lot of mileage for 160 points.

The Manticore is an excellent weapon that fulfills its roles very well. It will decimate hordes, it makes a good backup plan for anti vehicle needs, and it will strike fear into a T5 or lower model with multiple wounds. It can also be used strategically to force your opponent to spread out. If you find your army lacking in any of those areas, heavily consider the Manticore.




The problem with this post is you're assuming every IG army will be exactly the same. Only your heavy support can damage fliers and monstrous creatures? What? With questions like 'Is the manticore good?" It's much better to analyze the unit in question, determine its worth, and decide if your army needs it. Don't just make blanket statements about army compositions or other units and just say "the manticore is bad"

One manticore is capable of causing significant troubles to a battlewagon rush. While bw rush is almost an auto-win vs current vendetta-spam or chimera vets ig.

 koooaei wrote:
One manticore is capable of causing significant troubles to a battlewagon rush. While bw rush is almost an auto-win vs current vendetta-spam or chimera vets ig.

Quite the opposite regarding Vendetta Spam. While Battlewagon rush lists typically can't seriously threaten 3 Vendettas, 3 Vendettas (Especially full of special-weapon toting Vet Squads) have the maneuverability to get low-AV sides of the Battlewagon, which crumple quite nicely against Twin Linked Lascannons

If you want a nasty area effect weapon I would look at the Hellhound before trying the artillery.

 Orlanth wrote:
If you want a nasty area effect weapon I would look at the Hellhound before trying the artillery.

The Hellhound suffers from having a pretty small "Area of effect" compared to the Colossus; while having the exact same strength, AP, and ignores cover as the Colossus; and it is forced to get close unlike the Colossus; as well as it competes for Fast Attack slots against the Vendetta/Vulture, unlike the Colossus

Not trying to be rude whatsoever, but sadly the Hellhound isn't that great compared to its artillery alternative.

 TheCaptain wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
One manticore is capable of causing significant troubles to a battlewagon rush. While bw rush is almost an auto-win vs current vendetta-spam or chimera vets ig.

Quite the opposite regarding Vendetta Spam. While Battlewagon rush lists typically can't seriously threaten 3 Vendettas, 3 Vendettas (Especially full of special-weapon toting Vet Squads) have the maneuverability to get low-AV sides of the Battlewagon, which crumple quite nicely against Twin Linked Lascannons

The problem is battlewagon rush doesn't care bout anti-tank after turn 1-2. Their aim is to ride 18' first turn and than disembark for turn 2 charges or move forward once again. Besides, it's possible to hide side armor from flyers if there's appropriate blos. I'm just telling from my experience. When i meet a tripple vendetta list - battlewagon rush is almost an autowin. Especially if i go first. When there's a manticore, it reliably stops a wagon per turn. Sometimes more.