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I am curious what other peoples views are, both for and against, and reasons why?

If blood angels can then SW can!

nope simples

I wouldnt mind seeing a large bundle dex where all the space marine chapters are listed as different chapters within it (pun intended). It would be a hella expensive book to buy though. Doubt it will ever happen because then they wouldnt be able to piecemeal them out one at a time as they do now.
So while it would sell, it wouldnt net them as much money overall in the big picture so I would say no.

I wouldn't mind it at all if it were done well, but I am afraid that getting the SW to adhere to the C:SM format will require a whole lot of work. The SW codex is a lot more divergent than the BT, BA or DA codices.
They would need to get a supplement for their fluff and most of their special rules though.

IMO the Wolves lack answers to flyers and thats about the only huge flaw i can think of with them.. I usualy ally with a good anti air army when I plan out my lists. But if they get an update they need Flakk Missles and some form of flyer.

By doing each of the divergent chapters as different sections of said book, you could effectivel just have it as a compilation of the codexes put in one binding. The advantage is that the armory for vehicles and weapons and such could be compiled together at the front or back with listings of what chapter has access to which and avoid double printing. For example the rhino entry could be put in once instead of once for each chapter to save space.

No
1] We have way to many Unique Units.
2] Has been thier own Codex since 2nd Edition
3] It could give Access to Codex: Space Marines to TWC.

 A GumyBear wrote:
If blood angels can then SW can!

Not even a comparison. Blood Angels have fewer unique options than Space Wolves have compliant ones. We've got
Blood Angels have 6 Unique named Characters, and 6 or 7 Unique units besides. (These numbers could all be off by +/-1, I'm using battlescribe to count it up since I don't own the BA Codex.)
Space Wolves have 8 Unique named characters, and 15 unique units besides.
No contest.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 A GumyBear wrote:
If blood angels can then SW can!

Not even a comparison. Blood Angels have fewer unique options than Space Wolves have compliant ones. We've got
Blood Angels have 6 Unique named Characters, and 6 or 7 Unique units besides. (These numbers could all be off by +/-1, I'm using battlescribe to count it up since I don't own the BA Codex.)
Space Wolves have 8 Unique named characters, and 15 unique units besides.
No contest.

What're those 15 unique units?

SW, BA, and DA have always had their own codices, and that will never change. I know Templars got rolled, but they were an army who only got a real codex in 4th edition. They never got updated after that because they didn't sell as well as GW had hoped.

That being said, Space wolves is on it's third codex and has been it's own army since at least 2nd edition. (Rogue trader is a little before my time so I'm not sure if they were a faction back then) Besides, with the exception of their vehicles, every space wolf unit is different from their marine equivalent, or a unique unit in it's own right.

1] Wolf Guard
2] Grey Hunters
3] Blood claws
4] Swift Claws
5] Wolf Scouts
6] Swiftclaws
7] Skyclaws
8] TWC
9] Fenresian Wolves
10] Lone Wolves
11] Long Fangs
12] Rune Priest
13] Wolf Priest
14] Iron Priest
15] Wolf Lord
16] Wolf Guard Battle Leader
17] Space Wolf Contemptnor Dread [IA]

From what I found....
1. Lone Wolf
2. Wolf Scouts (although it really comes down to extra weapon choices and a ws/bs of 4)
3. ?Grey Hunters? (CCW and no commander as well as no heavies and can't combat squad)
4. Blood Claws
5. Fenresian Wolf Packs
6. Skyclaw assault squad
7. Swiftclaw Biker Squad
8. Thunderwolf Cavalry
9. ?Long Fangs? (basically Devestators+Split Fire)
10. Wolf Guard (basically company command squad combined with terminators combined with veterans combined with basically being the only form of sergeants *shrugs*)
That's what I found.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Anpu42 wrote:
1] Wolf Guard
2] Grey Hunters
3] Blood claws
4] Swift Claws
5] Wolf Scouts
6] Swiftclaws
7] Skyclaws
8] TWC
9] Fenresian Wolves
10] Lone Wolves
11] Long Fangs
12] Rune Priest
13] Wolf Priest
14] Iron Priest
15] Wolf Lord
16] Wolf Guard Battle Leader
17] Space Wolf Contemptnor Dread [IA]

To be fair Lone Wolves are barely different, Rune Priests really only have 2 different things (psyker powers which BA also has and really they are simply librarians and then a stupid item), Wolf Priests and Iron Priests are really just tech priests and chaplains in disguise. Also Contemptor Dread doesn't count. FW stuff doesn't really matter in this as it has nothing to do with the codex.

 StarTrotter wrote:
That's what I found. Oh and Wolf Guard, although they are very similar to the company command squad

E$xept that is not what they do, they, but they are to be parted out to become the leaders of other units.
The other thing is How many Pages of Special Rules and Exeptions would have to be writen in adding how many pages [and price] to Codex: Space Marines?

Yeah I already edited that part. I remembered them and then continued to edit it. Wolf Guard are... odd. They are basically terminators+CCS+Sergeants+a weaker version of a captain+Veterans

Still though, all I got were 10 models. Wolf Lord for example is really just a company captain. Having a different name really doesn't mean anything.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
That's what I found. Oh and Wolf Guard, although they are very similar to the company command squad

E$xept that is not what they do, they, but they are to be parted out to become the leaders of other units.
The other thing is How many Pages of Special Rules and Exeptions would have to be writen in adding how many pages [and price] to Codex: Space Marines?

That could easily be removed...

remember if there is a slight diffrence, they could be made to be not diffrent... or they could be removed.

(i'm against rolling he dexes togeather for a lot fo reasons these days)

 Anpu42 wrote:
1] Wolf Guard

Fair enough.

 Anpu42 wrote:

2] Grey Hunters

Tactical Marines with different options. Hardly "unique".

 Anpu42 wrote:

3] Blood claws

Assault Marines on foot with Rage.

 Anpu42 wrote:

4] Swift Claws

Bikers. Big deal.

 Anpu42 wrote:
1]
5] Wolf Scouts

Could easily be an upgrade to Scouts, hardly "unique".

 Anpu42 wrote:

6] Swiftclaws

See number 4, assuming that "Swift Claws" and "Swiftclaws" is the same unit.

 Anpu42 wrote:

7] Skyclaws

See number 3 minus "on foot".

 Anpu42 wrote:

8] TWC

Fair enough, although it could easily represent Bikers with access to Melee Weapons.

 Anpu42 wrote:

9] Fenresian Wolves

Are they a separate unit? I thought they were wargear. If they are, fair enough.

 Anpu42 wrote:

10] Lone Wolves

Fair enough.

 Anpu42 wrote:

11] Long Fangs

Devastators.

 Anpu42 wrote:

12] Rune Priest

Librarians.

 Anpu42 wrote:

13] Wolf Priest

Chaplains.

 Anpu42 wrote:

14] Iron Priest

Techmarines.

 Anpu42 wrote:

15] Wolf Lord
16] Wolf Guard Battle Leader

Captain-equivalents.

Anpu42 583045 6599360 e3493d3ef9090c105aa484a902e4d750.jpg
17 wrote: Space Wolf Contemptnor Dread [IA]

Contemptor Dreadnought. Seriously, it's a Contemptor with some extra stuff just because, there's no reason it can't be played as a normal one.

In summary, your list of 17 "unique" units is actually a list of 4 unique units, of which one is dubious at best IMO.

On a side note, you know what sounds creepy. If GW made the sagas into Warlord traits O.o (7 sagas. 6 rolls)

 Anpu42 wrote:
1] Wolf Guard Veteran +1
2] Grey Hunters Tactical marines +1
3] Blood claws assault marines (more numbers less skill) 0
4] Swift Claws bikers -1
5] Wolf Scouts scouts +1 (DA used to have this as well but without the weapon selection)
6] Swiftclaws Repeat
7] Skyclaws assault marines -1
8] TWC bikers +1
9] Fenresian Wolves Unique
10] Lone Wolves unique version of veterans
11] Long Fangs Devs +1
12] Rune Priest Librarian +1
13] Wolf Priest are these even used?
14] Iron Priest tech marine (again are these even used?)
15] Wolf Lord captain +1
16] Wolf Guard Battle Leader Sergeant +1
17] Space Wolf Contemptnor Dread [IA] don't all chapters have these?

So I would give you 2 truely unique units and a bunch of vanilla marines +1

Now as to the actually question. I think that all marines should be in one giant book yes it would be expensive yes it would have stuff a lot wouldn't use. However, it would help the release schedule it would help ensure that codecies are not left in the dust for several editions and if done properly (I never expect this to happen mind you) it would allow for greater balance between the marine factions and hopefully the other codecies.

Could they? Sure. If BT can, any Chapter can.

Should they? Probably not. Again, looking at what happened to BT, they'd become Grey Smurfs to fight alongside all the Blue and (now) Black Smurfs.

If GW had shown the ability to roll divergent and/or flavourful Chapters into C:SM without losing any of said character or flavour, then people would be more inclined to support rolling more in. As it stands, however, I can totally understand people's fears when it comes to their coloured Space Marines of choice.

1] Wolf Guard: Would need a Page to put in their Special Rules [Wolf Guard Pack Leader] and the ability to take Terminator Armor.
2] Grey Hunters: Would require either their own Page or Special Rules Banning Heavy Weapons and a Sergeant. Then another set of rules allowing them to take MotW, Special Melee Weapon and a Plasma Pistol. Also Adding the Wolf Standard to their Wargear List. while doable this would make the Tactical Marine entry twice as long or adding another entry like the Crusaders.
3] Blood Claws: Would require either their own Page or Special Rules Banning Sergeants and Changing two of their Attributes. This alone should require a separate page for them. It would also require a separate entry in the army list.
4] Wolf Scouts: Taking away the Sergeant and adding 2 Special Ranged or Melee Weapons. Adding some more additions to the Heavy Weapons Choice and adding MotW. The changes in Attributes, FOC and How their outflank works.
5] Swiftclaws: See Blood Claws
6] Skyclaws: See Blood Claws and adding MotW.
7] TWC: Own Page, no other way to do it.
8] Fenrisian Wolves: See TWC
9] Lone Wolves: See TWC
10] Long Fangs: Adding one more to the number of Heavy Weapons and removing the other members of the Pack. The Sergeant Getting Accesses to Ranged Special Weapons.
11] Rune Priest: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
12] Wolf Priest: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
13] Iron Priest: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
14] Wolf Lord: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
15] Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

In summary, your list of 17 "unique" units is actually a list of 4 unique units, of which one is dubious at best IMO.

Man you sure are buttflustered that your Templars got rolled in. 4 unique units is still more than the Black Templars ever had. "TWC could be represented by bikes"

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

In summary, your list of 17 "unique" units is actually a list of 4 unique units, of which one is dubious at best IMO.

Man you sure are buttflustered that your Templars got rolled in. 4 unique units is still more than the Black Templars ever had. "TWC could be represented by bikes"

They could, though. T5 marines that move faster than other Marines. Sounds like Bikes to me.

And yes, 4 unique units are still more than BT had. I don't think Space Wolves ought to be rolled into the Vanilla Codex anyway, but not because they're so incredibly different than Vanilla Marines (see GK for what that looks like), but because I've seen that GW aren't competent enough to do it, which was the reason I gave for being anti-folding of the BT too before that even happened.

Keep up not responding to my points though, I'm sure that's a great way to win arguments.

11] Rune Priest: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
12] Wolf Priest: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
13] Iron Priest: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
14] Wolf Lord: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
15] Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.

I'm going to have to call you out on these. They are still basically the Librarian, Chaplain, Tech Priest, etc. A few minor variations isn't surprising. It's just what codices do to differentiate themselves but even then. It's sjust a few wargear choices and then some saga chart.

The rest I concur although I almost would like to see the Fenresian wolves and TWC combined.


I'm simply arguing a point. Personal opinion, if GW knew how to merge codices or their supplements weren't so expensive and so just not worth it, I would say yeah! Roll them in! Buuuuuut GW is idiotic and ruined BT (that had almost nothing to differentiate them to begin with), releases supplements for companies, and is about to release a supplement for some no-name recent warband of renegades that has almost no fluff despite chaos constantly complaining about getting supplements to either represent the legions (+ Corsairs) or to represent the 4 gods.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

In summary, your list of 17 "unique" units is actually a list of 4 unique units, of which one is dubious at best IMO.

Man you sure are buttflustered that your Templars got rolled in. 4 unique units is still more than the Black Templars ever had. "TWC could be represented by bikes"

They could, though. T5 marines that move faster than other Marines. Sounds like Bikes to me.

And yes, 4 unique units are still more than BT had. I don't think Space Wolves ought to be rolled into the Vanilla Codex anyway, but not because they're so incredibly different than Vanilla Marines (see GK for what that looks like), but because I've seen that GW aren't competent enough to do it, which was the reason I gave for being anti-folding of the BT too before that even happened.

Keep up not responding to my points though, I'm sure that's a great way to win arguments.

Oooh, T5 2W BEAST Marines with 4 Attacks and Rending are bikes, sounds good m8. That doesn't sound like a bike at all. I have no reason to respond to your "points" because they're all emotionally driven and also because I don't think that Space Wolves should be rolled in.

 StarTrotter wrote:
11] Rune Priest: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
12] Wolf Priest: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
13] Iron Priest: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
14] Wolf Lord: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
15] Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.

I'm going to have to call you out on these. They are still basically the Librarian, Chaplain, Tech Priest, etc. A few minor variations isn't surprising. It's just what codices do to differentiate themselves but even then. It's sjust a few wargear choices and then some saga chart.

The rest I concur although I almost would like to see the Fenresian wolves and TWC combined.


I'm simply arguing a point. Personal opinion, if GW knew how to merge codices or their supplements weren't so expensive and so just not worth it, I would say yeah! Roll them in! Buuuuuut GW is idiotic and ruined BT, releases supplements for companies, and is about to release a supplement for some no-name recent warband of renegades that has almost no fluff despite chaos constantly complaining about getting supplements to either represent the legions (+ Corsairs) or to represent the 4 gods.

Runic Armor
Wolf Tooth Necklace
Wolf Tail Talisman
Rune Priest: Chooser of Slain, Rune Staff
Iron Priest: TWC, Cyberwolves
Wolf Lord/Wolf Guard Battle Leader: TWC, Fenrisial Wolves, Belt of Rus, Wolf Claws, MotW

Give the SW their special characters, an entry for TWC (imo this was a ridiculous unit to begin with, but it's just like the Sanguinary Guard or Deathwing Knights, who only exist to justify the BA and DA having their own codexes. However it would be unfair to those who spent all that dough on the models to have to simply use them as bikes, considering they in no way should follow rules for bikes) and Lone Wolves, their own chapter tactics, the option to take a second spec weapon or a heavy weapon in tactical squads using chapter tactics SW. Stuff like Sagas and talsimans an can be ditched, only present in the background and no longer represented in gameplay, just like Holy Orbs and Vows .

In all honesty, all SM could be put into one codex (GK in a Codex Inquisition, as units available to armies with Order tactics:Malleus (one can dream)). The problem has really come about in the way that GW has made an effort to differentiate them, almost to the point where it will be irreversable, what with the wolf riding drunks or the shiny nipple men.

I even approve of BT being merged: my gripe is not that they were merged, but that with respect to fluff and chapter tactics is was done poorly.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

In summary, your list of 17 "unique" units is actually a list of 4 unique units, of which one is dubious at best IMO.

Man you sure are buttflustered that your Templars got rolled in. 4 unique units is still more than the Black Templars ever had. "TWC could be represented by bikes"

They could, though. T5 marines that move faster than other Marines. Sounds like Bikes to me.

And yes, 4 unique units are still more than BT had. I don't think Space Wolves ought to be rolled into the Vanilla Codex anyway, but not because they're so incredibly different than Vanilla Marines (see GK for what that looks like), but because I've seen that GW aren't competent enough to do it, which was the reason I gave for being anti-folding of the BT too before that even happened.

Keep up not responding to my points though, I'm sure that's a great way to win arguments.

Oooh, T5 2W BEAST Marines with 4 Attacks and Rending are bikes, sounds good m8. That doesn't sound like a bike at all. I have no reason to respond to your "points" because they're all emotionally driven and also because I don't think that Space Wolves should be rolled in.

If you're not going to debate my arguments, why are you here? To flamebait?

You'll note that I listed TWC as "maybe" in the list above. Further, rules change between editions, just because they're Beasts with 4A and Rending now doesn't mean they'd be so in the future.

 Anpu42 wrote:
1] Wolf Guard: Would need a Page to put in their Special Rules [Wolf Guard Pack Leader] and the ability to take Terminator Armor.
2] Grey Hunters: Would require either their own Page or Special Rules Banning Heavy Weapons and a Sergeant. Then another set of rules allowing them to take MotW, Special Melee Weapon and a Plasma Pistol. Also Adding the Wolf Standard to their Wargear List. while doable this would make the Tactical Marine entry twice as long or adding another entry like the Crusaders.
3] Blood Claws: Would require either their own Page or Special Rules Banning Sergeants and Changing two of their Attributes. This alone should require a separate page for them. It would also require a separate entry in the army list.
4] Wolf Scouts: Taking away the Sergeant and adding 2 Special Ranged or Melee Weapons. Adding some more additions to the Heavy Weapons Choice and adding MotW. The changes in Attributes, FOC and How their outflank works.
5] Swiftclaws: See Blood Claws
6] Skyclaws: See Blood Claws and adding MotW.
7] TWC: Own Page, no other way to do it.
8] Fenrisian Wolves: See TWC
9] Lone Wolves: See TWC
10] Long Fangs: Adding one more to the number of Heavy Weapons and removing the other members of the Pack. The Sergeant Getting Accesses to Ranged Special Weapons.
11] Rune Priest: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
12] Wolf Priest: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
13] Iron Priest: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
14] Wolf Lord: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.
15] Wolf Guard Battle Leader: Multiple Unique Pieces of Wargear and adding the ability to take the Saga’s.

assuming you KEEP everything...

if they wanted to roll it into the vanilla dex, you would lose most of the things that you list as separate... probably lose sagas in favor of a chapter tactics, those chapter tactics would probably have you lose the sargents, or just call the sargents wolf guard with an option to upgrade to termis or somethign...

look at the BT... find what they lost being rolled in... that's what would happen... they don't have to KEEP all the toys you have, so rolling them into the main dex woudn't take as much space as you think...

My #1 Issue is
Do You Relize How Much That Book Is Going To Cost?

If they do that we will also get Dark Angels and Blood Angles rolled in. Even if they managed to make it only 5 Pages per Army, that is 15 Pages and the Requirement for EVERY SPACE MARINE PLAYER TO BUY THIS BOOK, so to recover the loss of 3 other books will add another $20-$30 to the price.