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Note to self, work I Richmond, Shop outside of richmond.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?id=9472166
RICHMOND, Calif. (KGO) -- The city of Richmond is one step closer to having the highest minimum wage in the state.

The Richmond City Council voted 6-1 on Tuesday in favor of an ordinance that would raise minimum hourly pay in the city to $12.30 an hour by 2017.

The vote came after Mayor Gayle McLaughlin rescinded an earlier idea to put it on the November ballot. If it passes another reading next month, the minimum wage would go to $9 an hour and go up from there.


Three options were presented to council members Tuesday night. The options were to raise the minimum wage to $11 an hour, $12.30 an hour or $15 an hour.
ABC7 News spoke with the chairman of the Chamber of Commerce and he says they're not opposed to the hike and agrees the minimum wage needs to be higher, but they're taking a cautious stance at this point. He said if it goes too high it would be bad for businesses. He used one person owning multiple hamburger stands as an example.

"If I have one in Richmond, one in El Cerrito and one in San Pablo, but you raise the Richmond one to $15, this guy is going to go out of business. He's going to have to close the Richmond store and we don't want to keep making a domino effect and then everybody start moving out of Richmond," Chamber of Commerce Chairman Michael Davenport said.

Davenport also said he wants the city council to revisit the issue every year. The city's plan based on the ordinance that got a first reading Tuesday night is to phase in the hike. Currently the minimum wage in the state and in Richmond is $8 an hour and would inch up to $12.30 an hour by 2017.

A second reading on this ordinance is scheduled for next month.

(Copyright ©2014 KGO-TV. All Rights Reserved.)

B-b-b-b-but inflation!

Good for Richmond.

Wait what in the name of --

Ohhhhhh ... Richmond, CA.

 streamdragon wrote:

Good for Richmond.

Really it isnt.

What's not clear to me here, is, is this $12 an hour for city employees only, or is it a blanket 12?

There was a big stink recently about Seattle going to 15 an hour, but ultimately it only applies to City employees. Ultimately, if there is a blanket increase to these kinds of levels, then yes, there will be artificial inflation which will drive most small businesses out of town, or out of business.

They have something like this planned for Seattle. All good intentions to show what wonderful people local Democrats are. The problem is that they aren't talking about how it will be phased in over ten years or how unions, food, and hospitality jobs are exempt. High wages at McDonalds or Hilton? Nope. Wanna keep your big box store in town? Better unionize.

I guess you can tell I'm sorta cynical about this whole minimum wage push.

As a libertarian I support local control. Where's RIchmond?

Raising minimum wage in one city does nothing but backfire. Raising minimum wage across the whole country actually accomplishes something.

squidhills wrote:
Raising minimum wage in one city does nothing but backfire. Raising minimum wage across the whole country actually accomplishes something.

Depends on the city in question - London has a "London weighting" applied to wages which makes it higher than the rest of the UK. Though I agree, in general such things have to be applied universally, not just in a small area.

Think Cali had to do something when Texas lured Toyota to move shop there.

squidhills wrote:
Raising minimum wage in one city does nothing but backfire. Raising minimum wage across the whole country actually accomplishes something.

Wouldn't a local entity actually know better what the cost of living is?
$12 in high cost of living LA is one thing. $12 in Marshall, Texas (or Fresno, Ca) just eliminated all minimum wage jobs the next day.

 Frazzled wrote:
As a libertarian I support local control. Where's RIchmond?

An hour or so south of san fran. It is known as "Detroit of California"

Googled, next to Berkeley. interesting.

"Detroit of California"

That's a bad omen there to have.

Never mention berkeley to me again, they can burn for all I care.
But yes, Richmond was meant to be the "Detroit of the west" In WW2, but guess what happened when the war boom was over?

 Frazzled wrote:

squidhills wrote:
Raising minimum wage in one city does nothing but backfire. Raising minimum wage across the whole country actually accomplishes something.

Wouldn't a local entity actually know better what the cost of living is?
$12 in high cost of living LA is one thing. $12 in Marshall, Texas (or Fresno, Ca) just eliminated all minimum wage jobs the next day.

For this issue, I think it should be decided at the State level so you don't wind up with urban flight and the subsequent loss of tax dollars. Doing it on a city council level can force, or accelerate, gentrification.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
As a libertarian I support local control. Where's RIchmond?

An hour or so south of san fran. It is known as "Detroit of California"

It is going to end up being like a radioactive fallout zone of where businesses refuse to exist inside the border.

We had a similar issue near us locally a decade or so ago... People in one county were fed up with property taxes, so they passed a law which stopped all increases locally. within 3 years, their schools and other local government aspects became grossly underfunded. it got so bad, townships on the border actually succeeded from the county to join the neighboring county. Now we have one of the richest areas in the state with the best schools right next to the poorest part of the state with the worst schools. They build a large highway which effectively allows *EVERYONE* to bypass even driving through that county. Their big 'win'w as building trashy casinos which brought their county 400 new blackjack dealer jobs, meanwhile the county next door has tens of thousands of top of the nation scientific jobs in NIH.

I am fine with local government doing what they feel is good for them, but they also get to reap the rewards. Interested to see how it impacts them.

thats a pretty high min wage.... while I really hope it doesnt have negative consequences, I really doubt it wont.

employers are not going to magically get larger labour budgets,

raising the hourly by X means they have to cut that X from somthing else, likely other labour costs.

not to mention it makes some jobs unsustainable,

for instance, a handicapped friend of mine used to get paid 4$/hr to fold napkins and do table set ups, that was the most the employer could pay him, and he was happy to work for it. Min wage was increased, making it illegal to pay him 4/hr, and his employer couldnt afford to keep him at the higher rate. ended up being a lose lose for them both.

the expectation that the absolute minimum you are allowed to pay someone is supposed to be a "living well" wage, well above the minimums required to raise a family and enjoy luxuries like television/cars/ect, is unfortunate, simply because not all jobs generate enough income for the employer to make paying that much profitable.

The expectation should be that if you want to earn more, you must produce more, and accept that your wages are proportional to your production value (not how hard you work)


Cue people who cant see any detriment ever to raising minimum wages, and think anyone who does see the other side just thinks poor people are lazy.

I see being "Paid Under the Table" happening

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
As a libertarian I support local control. Where's RIchmond?

An hour or so south of san fran. It is known as "Detroit of California"

I thought that was Oakland?

Well, In WW2 Richmond was called "Detroit of the west" Because of what its role in maufacturing was.

You noticing some similarities there?

It will definately be interesting to see where the money flows. The city assumes the higher wages will be higher revenues within city limits for tax purposes.

People take advantage of rule changes in government all the time. Renters will probably hike prices in anticipation of securing more dollars from people making more. Prices for goods within city limits may increase. People who are small business owners on a tight budget might shutter or force themselves to work with fewer employees or employee hours.

Of course, we have to let the experiment begin before we can see what actually happens.

 Jihadin wrote:
I see being "Paid Under the Table" happening

It's in California. Home of the nations largest population of illegal aliens. That's a given

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
I see being "Paid Under the Table" happening

It's in California. Home of the nations largest population of illegal aliens. That's a given

Same in Texas. Its a matter of routine.

Grumble...

Something, something Job creators. Something, something, freedom. Something, something, boostraps. Something, something freedom. Something, something, the market. Grumble, Grumble.

In conclusion, this is going to destroy the economy and also set 2d12*20 kittens on fire.

Cue people who cant see any detriment ever to raising minimum wages,

that didnt take long...

 Chongara wrote:
Grumble...

Something, something Job creators. Something, something, freedom. Something, something, boostraps. Something, something freedom. Something, something, the market. Grumble, Grumble.

In conclusion, this is going to destroy the economy and also set 2d12*20 kittens on fire.

 easysauce wrote:

Cue people who cant see any detriment ever to raising minimum wages,

that didnt take long...

Can't see a detriment? Do you mean to imply I want to see 40-480 kittens set on fire? That's is sick good sir. Sick sick sick.

 easysauce wrote:
The expectation should be that if you want to earn more, you must produce more, and accept that your wages are proportional to your production value (not how hard you work)

Except worker productivity has been increasing for decades with no corresponding wage increase.

 easysauce wrote:
Cue people who cant see any detriment ever to raising minimum wages, and think anyone who does see the other side just thinks poor people are lazy.

"I know I posted something people will disagree with, so let me preemptively dismiss them by lumping them all into the same unreasonable camp at the very end of the spectrum, leaving no room for shades of grey"

 Ouze wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
The expectation should be that if you want to earn more, you must produce more, and accept that your wages are proportional to your production value (not how hard you work)

Except worker productivity has been increasing for decades with no corresponding wage increase.

citation needed...

also I dont think you understand the concept of production value. Your statement is somewhat true in different industries, where the workers have had to increase their skill level or education, but not in the minimum wage ones, where no education or special skills are required.



These places are still just producing fast food, the value of the commodity has not changed, MC donalds has the same automated processes it had years and years ago.

Same with basic labour, you dig a ditch by hand 50 years ago, you make the same amount of ditches you dig by hand today.

now, if you had gone out and got a chef's or a caterpillars ticket, your productivity would go up, and WOW, those people with the actual productivity increasing skills/education make more money!


But I am sure you will keep arguing that somehow, magically, a guy with a shovel digs ditches way faster today then he did 50 years ago.

Actually automation has advanced quite a bit in the last 20 years in the form of communications between front of house and back of house.

Minimum wage skills improvement is difficult.
*Your average teenager - skills gone down.
*Your illegal alien - skills vastly improved (or productivity and quality of labor). In Texas now and CA when I lived there, minimum wage jobs were generally only given to illegals who had effectively driven other segments of the workforce out of the market.

IAs are generally extremely hard working (except for the criminals who are also hard working but in ways we don't like).