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I don't think it's the huge violation of the background that people are treating it as.

Some of the core concepts of the Warhammer 40,000 setting are that the threat of chaos is always present, psykers can never be fully trusted and even heroes will make terrible compromises in desperate circumstances. Giving 'good guy' psykers the option of trying to summon a daemon on the battlefield fits perfectly with those themes.

Obviously imperial psykers don't literally summon daemons all the time, but what we get on the tabletop isn't meant to be an exact representation of the setting. Tabletop marines don't defeat ten times their number in orks. Characters in the novels aren't always neatly part of a fixed unit they can never be separated from. Anyone daft enough to charge straight at an imperial guard platoon from maximum lasgun range is going to take a lot more casualties than the tabletop suggests. Real humans have feet larger than their hands. Plasma Guns probably don't kill their operators during almost every battle. In reality, something which has a 1% chance of killing you is considered pretty dangerous. On the tabletop a 10% risk of death is just a minor worry. That's not a bad thing. Things are distorted and exaggerated to make them more fun.

Giving people the option to have their psykers take wild risks to bring daemonic forces into the battle is an exaggerated representation of the numerous dangers of using the powers of the warp and the ever-present temptation of chaos.

In the setting it's very rare. On the tabletop it will probably be fairly uncommon, but more common than would be strictly realistic. That's because the game has crazy, once-in-a-lifetime events happening pretty frequently.

If it's an accident, like a psychic mishap table or Perils of the Warp table, I'll laugh my ass off and take a psycher in every army I can for the LOL's!

I accidently a Bloodthirster

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I accidently a Bloodthirster

Exalted!

I like the idea of being able to summon Daemons to the battlefield too. In reality, I guess it's entirely up to the player whether their characters are good or bad. Not that that explains why a special character would dabble with Daemons...

Perhaps psychic powers are not as straightforward for 7th as they have been for every other edition? The more powerful psychic powers leading to a greater chance of possession would make sense.

It also makes sense for those with psychic abilities to be put through much harsher mental ordeals than regular infantry. The most unstable of the Crimson Slaughter's warband were the librarians, I believe.

This could be a change in fluff for all psykers too. It makes sense for them to be the most unstable, and not just another unit that can hurt themselves if they mess up.

This new direction actually depicts psykers in the fluff a lot more accurately on the tabletop, now that I think about it...

I think it depends of what the Daemons do after they have been summoned.

If an imperial psyker summons a daemon and then the daemon is under imperial control, working together with priests or astartes, or getting objectives or similar, it doesn´t seem right.

If once the daemon appears then it attacks randomly or charge against the nearest enemy, sounds fluffy enough to me.

 da001 wrote:
I think it depends of what the Daemons do after they have been summoned.

If an imperial psyker summons a daemon and then the daemon is under imperial control, working together with priests or astartes, or getting objectives or similar, it doesn´t seem right.

If once the daemon appears then it attacks randomly or charge against the nearest enemy, sounds fluffy enough to me.

Oh yeah. If summoned daemons are battle brothers with normal imperial dudes and you can have your preacher join a unit of demons to inspire them with the Emperor's holy fury, then I'm happy to agree with the people saying that this is a bad idea.

I'm on the fence. Could be good. Could be horrid. Just remember "Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment".

So basically, the entire IoM would sacrifice thousands of psykers per day (I mean come on, that piece of lore is already stupid enough...) to keep a corpse alive assuming that it protects humanity from the Warp...while...at the same time, Psyker just keep summoning said creatures from the Warp by their side.

As bad as 40k fluff goes, that just seems like a huge plot hole to me.

I'm slightly more concerned that there appears to be a whole stack of powers specifically designed to feth with my army, and that if psychic powers selection in any way resembles what it is currently in terms of timing, every opponent will be able to choose to use them once they find out they're playing me.

I really disagree with the idea of loyalists being able to summon demons on purpose. I don't know the rules, but if they end up allowing this, then it's one more nail in the coffin for me because it goes against what I believe the SM should be. (Opinions my differ of course.) A loyalist SM summoning a demon should be so rare that it being presented on the tabletop should not be allowed.
It also ruins the flavor of playing a loyalist as apposed to a traitor.

Clearly, GW has understood that CSM are having problems, so they balance it out by making everyone like CSM.
Wait, that doesn't sound right...

Actually, aren't people even being killed by the Inquisition for the mere vague idea of them being corrupted by Chaos? And Psykers summoning demons are like "Nope!"? :O

Forge the narrative harder dammit!

I can inquisitors making daemonic pacts or desperate IG psykers.

but i really cant see it happening with space marines at all unless its some kinda rouge not chaos traitor army.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I really disagree with the idea of loyalists being able to summon demons on purpose. I don't know the rules, but if they end up allowing this, then it's one more nail in the coffin for me because it goes against what I believe the SM should be. (Opinions my differ of course.) A loyalist SM summoning a demon should be so rare that it being presented on the tabletop should not be allowed.
It also ruins the flavor of playing a loyalist as apposed to a traitor.

The only way I can see the IoM being able to summon daemons is an Radical Inquistor that has the abilities to communicate with daemons and can summon them. Assusming of course he can last that long and not fall to Chaos.

Still be hilarious for a Shin Megami Tensei twist in 40k if can make logical sense,

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I really disagree with the idea of loyalists being able to summon demons on purpose. I don't know the rules, but if they end up allowing this, then it's one more nail in the coffin for me because it goes against what I believe the SM should be. (Opinions my differ of course.) A loyalist SM summoning a demon should be so rare that it being presented on the tabletop should not be allowed.
It also ruins the flavor of playing a loyalist as apposed to a traitor.

The only way I can see the IoM being able to summon daemons is an Radical Inquistor that has the abilities to communicate with daemons and can summon them. Assusming of course he can last that long and not fall to Chaos.

Still be hilarious for a Shin Megami Tensei twist in 40k if can make logical sense,

Nah, clearly Radical Inquisitors are stand users.
Actually, that would be pretty rad.
That means I can yell out "THE WORLD" and drop a mini steamroller on my opponent's riptides.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
I really disagree with the idea of loyalists being able to summon demons on purpose. I don't know the rules, but if they end up allowing this, then it's one more nail in the coffin for me because it goes against what I believe the SM should be. (Opinions my differ of course.) A loyalist SM summoning a demon should be so rare that it being presented on the tabletop should not be allowed.
It also ruins the flavor of playing a loyalist as apposed to a traitor.

The only way I can see the IoM being able to summon daemons is an Radical Inquistor that has the abilities to communicate with daemons and can summon them. Assusming of course he can last that long and not fall to Chaos.

Still be hilarious for a Shin Megami Tensei twist in 40k if can make logical sense,

Nah, clearly Radical Inquisitors are stand users.
Actually, that would be pretty rad.
That means I can yell out "THE WORLD" and drop a mini steamroller on my opponent's riptides.

Just think how rad it would be to convince a Tzeentch daemon to be your minion, summon it when needed, and then just go to town on the opponent.

Granted that may not happen at all, but that would still be hilarious.

I know, right? Shenanigans with demon minions are always fun.

Until they devour your soul, use your guts as a jump rope and start shoving durians into places where no durian should be shoved.

 azreal13 wrote:
I'm slightly more concerned that there appears to be a whole stack of powers specifically designed to feth with my army, and that if psychic powers selection in any way resembles what it is currently in terms of timing, every opponent will be able to choose to use them once they find out they're playing me.

This is the more concerning possibility to me as well.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
I'm slightly more concerned that there appears to be a whole stack of powers specifically designed to feth with my army, and that if psychic powers selection in any way resembles what it is currently in terms of timing, every opponent will be able to choose to use them once they find out they're playing me.

This is the more concerning possibility to me as well.

+1

Also, as a Sister´s player, I am worried about the other new discipline (Sanctum?). First thing I thought: Faith turned into a psy-power.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 da001 wrote:
I think it depends of what the Daemons do after they have been summoned.

If an imperial psyker summons a daemon and then the daemon is under imperial control, working together with priests or astartes, or getting objectives or similar, it doesn´t seem right.

If once the daemon appears then it attacks randomly or charge against the nearest enemy, sounds fluffy enough to me.

Oh yeah. If summoned daemons are battle brothers with normal imperial dudes and you can have your preacher join a unit of demons to inspire them with the Emperor's holy fury, then I'm happy to agree with the people saying that this is a bad idea.

After the Tau & Marines BB thing, I will not discard that until I see the rule.

By the way, 30k FW Word Bearers have a unique HQ unit called Diabolist. It seems it was popular in the Studio.

for all we know summoning deamons regularly will require deamons to be summoned by factions that can ally with it.

Eldar do it all the time.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
Eldar do it all the time.

Actually Eldar birth Chaos Gods

What do you guys think about this; a deck of cards much like the psychic power cards GW put out, that you use during the game face down.

When a psyker attempts to use a power and gets a "psychic mishap or Perils of the Warp" your opponent draws a card off the top of the deck and only he/she can look at it. The card may contain "no effect" takes place or a card may contain something to the effect "when opposing player attempts X,Y,Z actions you get to do this.

I really like this because you as the player controlling the psyker; arent sure if your psyker was affected or influenced by the warp and he may turn on you... Just a thought for the whole daemon summoning/ daemon possession angle.

I really don't like that idea to be honest.

Any reason as to why?

GW likes random tables. I speculate there will be a 2d6 table, similar to the Chaos Space Marine boons table, for when you suffer a Perils of the Warp result during psychic tests!

I don't like the idea of somebody else controlling my models because of a dice roll. That and I am not using more damn cards.

Toying with the Warp is dangerous, regardless of who you are when you do it. Psychic Powers are super-powerful on the tabletop, they should come with commensurate risks.

 Psienesis wrote:
Toying with the Warp is dangerous, regardless of who you are when you do it. Psychic Powers are super-powerful on the tabletop, they should come with commensurate risks.

Which is exactly why I thought the card idea was a good idea... play with fire........

I dont mind this at all.

Imagine running Greater Daemons with Rift Bringer, lets say you get even 1. Then another with Porta Glyph.

Get a few Psykers on the board for Daemon Summoning.

This could be super fun!

Might actually feel like a real Warp Breach into reality as Daemons swarm across the board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Don't forget that there were also side effects to using the daemonic summoning table if you don't have the Daemon special rule.