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This is something that has been bugging me for a bit. Why don't they paint their tanks in a camouflage scheme as opposed to the garish, bright color schemes they do now? It doesn't make much sense from a practical standpoint. I can understand technology that obscures the tank but when that technology fails it's nice to have something that will reliably make your vehicle to see.

Or is it because Games Workshop loves bright, garish paint schemes?

Holo-fields?
Speed and maneuverability?

To taunt the space marines because they can actually get away with it more?

The same reason anyone in 40k wears the bright, heraldic colors that they do: rule of cool.

They have the opposite rule to guard. Guard use: 'If you can't see me, you can't hit me'

Eldar use: 'If you can't look at me, then, well.... yeah. Good luck hitting me'

The eldar colors are designed to bring home in a very real sense the alien nature of the army. They have a fundamentally different way of thinking that leads them to the point where their bright color schemes are the most reasonable choice--to them--as camo is to us.

One possibility is arrogance. To camouflage their tanks would indicate that their holo-fields and serpent shields were not enough to protect them, that their pilots were not fast enough to outmaneuver primitive mon-keigh weapons. That arrogance isn't just an act for other races, it's a psychological crutch that helps the eldar continue on in the face of their depressing--and ultimately futile--existence.

Another is defiance. They eldar know (deep down) that it's over for them, and that they are fighting a losing war for survival. There is no turning back at this point: one day, their race will cease to exist. One day, there will be a soldier who will stand over the steaming corpse of the last member of the eldar race. Such bold colors announce fearlessly that THIS is not that day, and THESE are not that eldar. It says "We were here before your species decided climbing down out of the trees would be a good career move, and we will be here when your bones have turned to dust."

Finally, it underscores the stylish approach eldar take towards war. Warfare, like any other pursuit to them, must be pursued TO IT'S PERFECTION. To their way of thinking, it is not enough to simply be competent at a thing. One must also make it into an art form, a performance. This meshing of style with substance emphasizes the faction's roots in fantasy elves, and the color schemes go hand-in-hand with that.

Those are just my opinions, of course. Perhaps a little less caustic than usual for Dakka, but there you have it.

The Eldar are not so much about making themselves invisible as making themselves hard to hit, which is not quite the same. Eldar Rangers use cameleoline cloaks, but that is because they move in small groups and may stay stationary for long periods of time. However the main Eldar forces are almost always on the move, and this is not shown by the static miniatures. Eldar holofields of all sizes make the target burst into a cloud of swirling color, and when they move, this means they become a smeared blur of color instead of a discrete target to aim at. Even without holofields, Eldar vehicles zooming around would be a blur and individual Eldar are far faster than humans. The old Dark Eldar Codex said certain video captures had to be slowed down for the Dark Eldar to be made out, and some were able to kick back grenades that were thrown at them. While the Craftworld Eldar may not be quite as physically fit and fast as the fastest Dark Eldar, they are still faster than humans.

Finally do not forget the effect of Eldar psykers with powers like Conceal. So they might be brightly colored with sashes and banners, but your eyes do not see them clearly because of warp magic.

Eldar have holofields - which are so far above mere camouflage that mere camo just doesn't rate.
Rangers have cameleoline - which is an adaptive/mimetic camouflage coating/fabric/material again, far more advanced than mere camouflage.

It was much better when the game still had modifiers for shooting, though (as moving fast was a -1 and holofields were a further -1) so even marines only hit them on 5s.

 chromedog wrote:


Eldar have holofields - which are so far above mere camouflage that mere camo just doesn't rate.
Rangers have cameleoline - which is an adaptive/mimetic camouflage coating/fabric/material again, far more advanced than mere camouflage.

It was much better when the game still had modifiers for shooting, though (as moving fast was a -1 and holofields were a further -1) so even marines only hit them on 5s.

To-hit modifiers were good and were a better representation of protection via not getting hit in the first place. Incidentally in 2nd edition holofields doubled the to-hit modifier for speed, so they got better the faster one moved. However targeters (+1 to-hit modifier) were also fairly widespread particularly on vehicles so they negated that, so GW ultimately came up with the unmodifiable dodge save for characters.

 chromedog wrote:


Eldar have holofields - which are so far above mere camouflage that mere camo just doesn't rate.
Rangers have cameleoline - which is an adaptive/mimetic camouflage coating/fabric/material again, far more advanced than mere camouflage.

It was much better when the game still had modifiers for shooting, though (as moving fast was a -1 and holofields were a further -1) so even marines only hit them on 5s.

yeah I'd like to see them bring back movement modifiers, it'd add more tatical depth to the game

No it wouldn't. It would reduce armies to gunlines trying to avoid suffering a -1 penalty for shooting while moving, which was also a thing, and only vehicle got any benefit from moving while being shot at.

If they used camouflage they wouldn't be as fabulous.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
No it wouldn't. It would reduce armies to gunlines trying to avoid suffering a -1 penalty for shooting while moving, which was also a thing, and only vehicle got any benefit from moving while being shot at.

You are incorrect on this point. There was no modifier for just moving. There was a -1 for shooting from a vehicle moving at its fast rate. No modifiers if you moved at a slower rate. All targets not just vehicles got benefit from moving if they moved fast enough. The key non-vehicle models in 2nd edition that got this benefit were Eldar and Tyranids. I am looking at the 2nd edition rulebook as I type this and they are all listed on page 31.

The modifiers were

-1 if the target was in or behind soft cover
-2 if the target was in or behind hard cover
-1 for shooting at a rapid moving target (moved 10-20"
-2 for shooting at a very rapid moving target (moved >20"
-1 for shooting from a vehicle moving at its fast rate
+1 for shooting at large targets such as Land Raiders, buildings, or very large (elephant sized+) creatures

 Darth Bob wrote:
The same reason anyone in 40k wears the bright, heraldic colors that they do: rule of cool.

And as we all know, RoC + Spehss Fantasy = FUN

Iracundus wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
No it wouldn't. It would reduce armies to gunlines trying to avoid suffering a -1 penalty for shooting while moving, which was also a thing, and only vehicle got any benefit from moving while being shot at.

You are incorrect on this point. There was no modifier for just moving. There was a -1 for shooting from a vehicle moving at its fast rate. No modifiers if you moved at a slower rate. All targets not just vehicles got benefit from moving if they moved fast enough. The key non-vehicle models in 2nd edition that got this benefit were Eldar and Tyranids. I am looking at the 2nd edition rulebook as I type this and they are all listed on page 31.

The modifiers were

-1 if the target was in or behind soft cover
-2 if the target was in or behind hard cover
-1 for shooting at a rapid moving target (moved 10-20"
-2 for shooting at a very rapid moving target (moved >20"
-1 for shooting from a vehicle moving at its fast rate
+1 for shooting at large targets such as Land Raiders, buildings, or very large (elephant sized+) creatures

The effects of all of these are neatly represented by the cover save mechanic for vehicles (including jink, etc). Its a lot easier to remember as well, rather than a large range of modifiers.

painting vehicles in a camouflage scheme isn't even very effective actually.
When something the size of an Eldar tank moves around at the speed of an Eldar tank, it is going to stand out a lot, regardless of the paintjob.
Now camouflaged vehicles do come in handy when staging an ambush or something like that, but in that case the Eldar can employ all those nifty technologies, making the paintjob irrelevent.

I suppose camoflauge wouldn't improve an Eldar's tank to hide but it does seem silly to paint them in these bright colors. It actually helps the enemy since they can see their tanks easier and, therefore, have a better chance at hitting them. More muted or natural colors would make the tanks harder to hit since they don't stand out as much against the background.

When you have the ability to go invisible and project a false image of yourself, you kinda want that false image to be flashy.

And being able to go invisible renders any color based camo obsolete.

The Eldar may have been with that technology so long that the concept of color based camo is utterly unknown to them.

Are Eldar tanks invisible all of the time?

Considering how even in modern times your basic camouflage is slowly becoming less effective against a modern army its likely that by the time you get to the 41st millennium its simply pointless to the point where you really gain no bonus based upon your paint job because every basic trooper you go against already has a "predator" style helmet able to see in various wavelengths (including good old thermal). And if they don't their commanders do.

So as a result your huge tank really doesn't matter if its painted in camo or in really gaudy bright colours, because either way its already spotted via other means.


Also Rule of Cool.
Plus copy-cat - people see something and they want it. That's why you see so many armies painted similar to GW paint schemes; following on from that people get into the mindset of following that whole visual theme in itself (copying GW and each other).

Finally painting good camo is actually pretty advanced painting for most people. Especially since it requires more freehand and less selection of specific details (instead you want to blurr the details by having the camo pattern cover over them; rather than having the paint pick out the details).

I understand why people paint their Eldar crap like Games workshop does. It's easy, it's eye catching and it doesn't require more than a few paints.

I can understand the "Optics are so good that your Camo doesn't do anything" argument but I don't think that is necessarily true since Camo cloaks work. Even if it functions by obscuring one's heat I do not believe they would work as well if they were painted in Bright Garish colors.

For Eldar tanks, why would you put all of this cloaking tech and then spoil your advantage of surprise by having this brightly colored paint jobs which will tip off the enemy where you are from the get-go? Wouldn't it make more sense to have them be in muted colors so that they are harder to pick out?

Well there are a few theories to that:

1) It's not real war and everyone is going to war in what we'd call parade dress today.

2) 40K is basically fantasy war in the future so no one knows what camo is

3) If your holo field camo is down chances are you're dead anyway because everything will spot you no matter what colour you're painted as (because if you're not screaming shoot me in basic light spectrum you're screaming it in another that most opponents can see

4) They ARE camouflaged, but Eldar simply see light differently and thus to human eyes they are not camouflaged.

Considering that Eldar vehicles function more like VTOL jets with ridiculous maneuverability, I don't think camo is really going to do much. At best I could only see a Grot getting fooled.

Given speed, you may see but can you hit it, nearly everything eldar is fast and agile even if its a tank

+ they have holo tech, its miles ahead of impirial basic paint based cammo.

You don't need camoflauge when you're either A. invisible or B. making your opponent play which one of the 3 tanks is the real one?

 Wyzilla wrote:
Considering that Eldar vehicles function more like VTOL jets with ridiculous maneuverability, I don't think camo is really going to do much. At best I could only see a Grot getting fooled.

I don't think they are actually used like that most of the time since they are terribly armed to be a dedicated aerial craft. I can see a commander telling his Wave Serpents to fly up and over some fortifications if they need to but against anyone with dedicated aerial defenses or craft they'll be shot to pieces without support. From what I can tell Eldar tanks are moreover used like Devilfish.

But reading on what exactly Holo Fields do I can sort of understand why Eldar decide to forgo camo paint on their tanks. Why not make your stuff pretty if it doesn't matter what they'll look like? I wouldn't do it in case the Holo Fields fail for whatever reason but I'm not an Eldar.

You're going fast enough so it probably won't matter. Plus it's Eldar their technology doesn't fail they aren't the Imperium.

Unless Eldar tanks are like video game bosses and never show any signs of damage until they explode then I doubt that.

But I guess if you were at that point then some green paint wouldn't save your ass. So, I am in the wrong about this subject. Eldar tanks do not really need camouflage because their nice, fancy tech makes up for it. Now I know.

Wait, What about Rangers?

Cameoline cloaks so they look like what they're standing next to. That or they're already shooting you.