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After a bit of thought I've decided that I'd rather not get the new rules, and that I'll stick with 6th or even go back to 5th or 4th. Will you be getting the new book, or are you satisfied with the current rules/ fed up with having to buy what are seemingly deteriorating rules?

Yes because I have learnt two things.

No matter what GW does, people will complain about their rules and miniatures.
(Just read the new WD and cannot wait personally)

Unless you strictly play with your friends/regulars what choice do we really have?


-Dert

 DerT84 wrote:
(...)
Unless you strictly play with your friends/regulars what choice do we really have?

We have the choice not to buy an expensive product we don´t like and we don´t need.

Use the Internet to find people willing to keep playing 6th, or 5th, or a home-made variant. Play the game the way you want to play it, instead of blindly following the lead of people that do not longer care about their customers or the quality of their products.

There are always options. You are not forced to buy anything.

Or you can not assume that everyone hates the game as much as you apparently do and buy it because you are looking forward to playing and are excited about the release?

I am picking it up on friday, got an entire weekend of painting and live stream watching planned. I cant wait!! Also got my first game of 7th scheduled for the saturday.

I learned that the two problems I had with 6th were the simplicity of the missions and the lack of terrain. Once the second was solved it helped a lot, and it looks like GW is trying to help rectify the first.

Also they have basically killed most of the death stars with the rules this edition.

i pre ordered the ebook version. can have and read it on the go and i still have my 6th ed tome if i ever wanna play that again. i think i still have a 5th ed rule book around here somewhere as well.

Many changes are gona be quite fine. 6 ed was a complete mess. It's hard to go worse than it's now. Probably one of a few things i dislike is unbound and grounding buff. But we don't know yet how fmc are gona be changed otherwise so it's too early to judge about grounding. And aren't the lists unbound allready with the ammount of allies and extra out-of-slot stuff.

I really do like fantasy-style psy phase though. Pretty tired of all that annoying 2++ rerollable.

Time shall tell but i'm looking forward to 7 ed and strongly belive that it's gona be better than 6 ed.

 Leth wrote:
Or you can not assume that everyone hates the game as much as you apparently do and buy it because you are looking forward to playing and are excited about the release?

I fething LOVE the game. I am looking forward to playing the next game all the time, and has been so for years. I really don´t understand the 'if you don´t like GW policies you must hate the game' pseudo-reasoning.

I don´t like the "what choice do we really have?" part in DerT84 post. You shouldn´t be feel forced to do something you don´t want to do. There are lots of players that are not enjoying some of the new rules (and openly complain about them) yet they do nothing because they feel forced to play with the Rulebook as if that was the only way to enjoy the game.

There is no reason to stop playing 6th because 7th is out.

There is no reason not to try home-made systems. Or 5th edition. Or 2nd. Or Rogue Trader.

I am picking it up on friday, got an entire weekend of painting and live stream watching planned. I cant wait!! Also got my first game of 7th scheduled for the saturday.

Good for you! Hope you enjoy it. If everything goes well, I will get a game this weekend too. I am trying to convince people to play some of the home-made 40k systems that are so common nowadays. If it falls, then it is 6th or 5th, depending on who is available.

 koooaei wrote:
Many changes are gona be quite fine. 6 ed was a complete mess. It's hard to go worse than it's now. Probably one of a few things i dislike is unbound and grounding buff. But we don't know yet how fmc are gona be changed otherwise so it's too early to judge about grounding.

I really do like fantasy-style psy phase though. Pretty tired of all that annoying 2++ rerollable.

Time shall tell but i'm looking forward to 7 ed and strongly belive that it's gona be better than 6 ed.

6e started off pretty good if rather unfair to assault armies.

Escalation was when the game started breaking.

Eventually™.

 da001 wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Or you can not assume that everyone hates the game as much as you apparently do and buy it because you are looking forward to playing and are excited about the release?

I fething LOVE the game. I am looking forward to playing the next game all the time, and has been so for years. I really don´t understand the 'if you don´t like GW policies you must hate the game' pseudo-reasoning.

I don´t like the "what choice do we really have?" part in DerT84 post. You shouldn´t be feel forced to do something you don´t want to do. There are lots of players that are not enjoying some of the new rules (and openly complain about them) yet they do nothing because they feel forced to play with the Rulebook as if that was the only way to enjoy the game.

There is no reason to stop playing 6th because 7th is out.

There is no reason not to try home-made systems. Or 5th edition. Or 2nd. Or Rogue Trader.

I am picking it up on friday, got an entire weekend of painting and live stream watching planned. I cant wait!! Also got my first game of 7th scheduled for the saturday.

Good for you! Hope you enjoy it. If everything goes well, I will get a game this weekend too. I am trying to convince people to play some of the home-made 40k systems that are so common nowadays. If it falls, then it is 6th or 5th, depending on who is available.

Fair enough, sorry I miss understood. There is just so much negativity these days it is making me very defensive.

I guess I dont understand the feeling forced to engage in something that is 100% optional in your life. I have skipped one and a half editions worth of 40k over the years. I didnt enjoy the rules in fourth so I stopped playing but held onto my armies. Came back mid way through 5th, thought it was alright. Had issues with 6th for a little bit but grew into it. Now super excited for 7th. Invested and wasted probably a couple thousand dollars I didnt have to waste on things that turned out to be a waste of time. Warmachine, d and d 3.5 books, certain diets, entire 40k and fantasy armies. I never felt the need to double down just because, or go online and complain about it. I just accepted it as a loss and moved on.

If it was something essential to daily living that they were essentially forced to buy (Like comcast prices, gas, etc) I could understand the constant hate and complaining.

I liked 6th (I even like Escalation and Stronghold Assauls, blasphemy!), and I'm open-minded about 7th and have preordered since my gaming group is excited about it.

 jasper76 wrote:
I liked 6th (I even like Escalation and Stronghold Assauls, blasphemy!), and I'm open-minded about 7th and have preordered since my gaming group is excited about it.

I liked the concepts behind Escalation (the execution was bad though) and I don't really mind stronghold assault (I do wish the fortifications weren't an Imperial only show though), but hopefully 7e will help restore the game back to sanity.

 Leth wrote:
(...)
Fair enough, sorry I miss understood. There is just so much negativity these days it is making me very defensive.

I guess I dont understand the feeling forced to engage in something that is 100% optional in your life. I have skipped one and a half editions worth of 40k over the years. I didnt enjoy the rules in fourth so I stopped playing but held onto my armies. Came back mid way through 5th, thought it was alright. Had issues with 6th for a little bit but grew into it. Now super excited for 7th. Invested and wasted probably a couple thousand dollars I didnt have to waste on things that turned out to be a waste of time. Warmachine, d and d 3.5 books, certain diets, entire 40k and fantasy armies. I never felt the need to double down just because, or go online and complain about it. I just accepted it as a loss and moved on.

If it was something essential to daily living that they were essentially forced to buy (Like comcast prices, gas, etc) I could understand the constant hate and complaining.

No problem! Actually, sometimes I sound too negative to myself too.

I really enjoy trying new systems and this 'but we are forced to play by the rules' is something I am getting tired of. The rulebook itself encourages creativity, house rules and campaigns, the game is supposed to be tweaked out. I am ok with players who enjoy playing by the rules, but lately I have found players who openly say that they do not like the rules or that they don´t want to keep track of anything GW is publishing nowadays, yet claim that they 'need' to do that to keep playing. They complain a lot, then refuse to change anything.

If 7th seems too rushed for a player, it is a good time to try a new variant or keep playing 6th for a while. I will be doing that until we find out how 7th is.

I will wait until the mini rulebooks from the upcoming boxed set hit the secondary market. I don't have any extra cash to spare right now, and with how fast rules have come out I'm feeling a little burnt out/overwhelmed since I only get a handful of games each month.

I'm excited about the new edition, but I can't justify another $90 rulebook so soon after the last one. It was already expensive, and they raised the price another ten dollars. If they're just going to do this again two years from now, I see no reason to spend $90 when I can wait a few months and spend about $20.

In the meantime I'm sure that there will be plenty of players in my area still playing 6th edition for a while yet.

Yes. The changes so far seem to be for better and if it fixes some broken stuff from 6th, then even better.

Maybe it's because 40k is not all about powergaming here and we don't have rules-exploiting TFG's around so most people I know would rather use Unbound for awesome, fluffy armies rather than maxing out the cheese. It's WFB that gathers the WAAC guys over here, so other systems are largely safe to play for fun.

If the rulebook sucks, though, I can always go back to playing 6th or shelf my armies and focus on Warmachine/other games.

Will not buy the BRB and if a mini book is not going to come out in a new starter box then I'm not sure if I'll ever get it.

 Kain wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
I liked 6th (I even like Escalation and Stronghold Assauls, blasphemy!), and I'm open-minded about 7th and have preordered since my gaming group is excited about it.

I liked the concepts behind Escalation (the execution was bad though) and I don't really mind stronghold assault (I do wish the fortifications weren't an Imperial only show though), but hopefully 7e will help restore the game back to sanity.

Honestly with the change to D weapons, escalation is not really a big deal. Number of wounds from d weapons decreased and invul saves allowed except on a 6. Lots of them are probably even more overcosted now.

Although with the super heavy damage table and the changes to 7 it gives the super heavys a lot more durability so there is that. Without ranged d being a problem I am not to worried about it. The tools you need to deal with AV 14 and the like are usually more than you need to deal with the super heavies.

Also the old rulebook was 75 and this one is 85. I think having it split in to three parts is worth the 10 extra for my convenience. I dont see it as them forcing me to buy things I wouldnt, I see it as them giving me the same stuff they would before but with the convenience of making it so I dont actually have to get the mini rulebook in addition to the big book like I used to. I think it is a nice step forward from GW. It may be 10 bucks more but I am going to be spending over all 20-30 bucks less.

 Klerych wrote:
If the rulebook sucks, though, I can always go back to playing 6th or shelf my armies and focus on Warmachine/other games.

Meanwhile, if you've bought the 7th rulebook you'll have rewarded GW for a shoddy product, encouraging them to do more of the same. If you decide it sucks before buying it though,

 Yonan wrote:

 Klerych wrote:
If the rulebook sucks, though, I can always go back to playing 6th or shelf my armies and focus on Warmachine/other games.

Meanwhile, if you've bought the 7th rulebook you'll have rewarded GW for a shoddy product, encouraging them to do more of the same. If you decide it sucks before buying it though,

Somebody's gotta buy it to test it out.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 Klerych wrote:
If the rulebook sucks, though, I can always go back to playing 6th or shelf my armies and focus on Warmachine/other games.

Meanwhile, if you've bought the 7th rulebook you'll have rewarded GW for a shoddy product, encouraging them to do more of the same. If you decide it sucks before buying it though,

Somebody's gotta buy it to test it out.

Only one person needs to buy it worldwide for the rest of us to test it out, or to get their review of it.

 jasper76 wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 Klerych wrote:
If the rulebook sucks, though, I can always go back to playing 6th or shelf my armies and focus on Warmachine/other games.

Meanwhile, if you've bought the 7th rulebook you'll have rewarded GW for a shoddy product, encouraging them to do more of the same. If you decide it sucks before buying it though,

Somebody's gotta buy it to test it out.

Well for people who are interested, but dont want to fork out for it without seeing it in action I have listed some live streams for this coming weekend in the general section. There will be rules changes and discussions as well as live interactive battle reports all weekend, so check them out if you are on the fence.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595981.page

 Leth wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
I liked 6th (I even like Escalation and Stronghold Assauls, blasphemy!), and I'm open-minded about 7th and have preordered since my gaming group is excited about it.

I liked the concepts behind Escalation (the execution was bad though) and I don't really mind stronghold assault (I do wish the fortifications weren't an Imperial only show though), but hopefully 7e will help restore the game back to sanity.

Honestly with the change to D weapons, escalation is not really a big deal. Number of wounds from d weapons decreased and invul saves allowed except on a 6. Lots of them are probably even more overcosted now.

Although with the super heavy damage table and the changes to 7 it gives the super heavys a lot more durability so there is that. Without ranged d being a problem I am not to worried about it. The tools you need to deal with AV 14 and the like are usually more than you need to deal with the super heavies.

Also the old rulebook was 75 and this one is 85. I think having it split in to three parts is worth the 10 extra for my convenience. I dont see it as them forcing me to buy things I wouldnt, I see it as them giving me the same stuff they would before but with the convenience of making it so I dont actually have to get the mini rulebook in addition to the big book like I used to. I think it is a nice step forward from GW. It may be 10 bucks more but I am going to be spending over all 20-30 bucks less.

I'm personally hoping for new ways to defeat 2++ rerollable save silliness with the D-weapon nerf.

Also Tyranid lords of war have rather bad stats as a whole. The Heirodule is several editions behind in pricing and power philosophy as a quick comparison to the Wraithknight can attest to.

I'll be getting it, but I'm not exactly super excited about what I've heard so far.

Due to the nature of the snippets that have been confirmed, though, there is still enough room left for a positive surprise, so here's hoping for that.

 Yonan wrote:

 Klerych wrote:
If the rulebook sucks, though, I can always go back to playing 6th or shelf my armies and focus on Warmachine/other games.

Meanwhile, if you've bought the 7th rulebook you'll have rewarded GW for a shoddy product, encouraging them to do more of the same. If you decide it sucks before buying it though,

Meanwhile not everyone straight up assumes that the new rulebook will be rubbish and given the actual meta, there's little they can screw up more while fixing some things(Taudar is most likely no more for example). If I was to stick to some older edition, I'd rather stop playing the game in all honesty. 40k moves onward, stuff changes - if I don't like it, I don't play it. I'm not gonna be one of those "oh, my group plays [x]th ed, we're that hardcore!" guys that sometimes sound like they're bragging about playing some older edition. If I don't like the game, I'll just go somewhere else.

Free returns so yes

 Leth wrote:
(...)
Well for people who are interested, but dont want to fork out for it without seeing it in action I have listed some live streams for this coming weekend in the general section. There will be rules changes and discussions as well as live interactive battle reports all weekend, so check them out if you are on the fence.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595981.page

Cool! Will keep an eye on it

I won't. For one, they're charging too much for a book and I don't want GW to be rewarded for too high prices. If we keep buying it, they'll keep raising prices.

(Rant)
And before someone makes the inevitable "but my college books cost more!" comparison, college text books require people with doctorates a great deal of research, sometimes many years, with a lot of proof reading and hard work to assemble them. As a historian I can attest. I wrote a for fun history book on powerful women and it took me a friggin' ton of research, several days per person. When GW puts that kind of effort into their books then I'll reconsider.

 MWHistorian wrote:


(Rant)
And before someone makes the inevitable "but my college books cost more!" comparison, college text books require people with doctorates a great deal of research, sometimes many years, with a lot of proof reading and hard work to assemble them. As a historian I can attest. I wrote a for fun history book on powerful women and it took me a friggin' ton of research, several days per person. When GW puts that kind of effort into their books then I'll reconsider.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, College books have proofreading and require people with doctorates to write them. That is too funny.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:


(Rant)
And before someone makes the inevitable "but my college books cost more!" comparison, college text books require people with doctorates a great deal of research, sometimes many years, with a lot of proof reading and hard work to assemble them. As a historian I can attest. I wrote a for fun history book on powerful women and it took me a friggin' ton of research, several days per person. When GW puts that kind of effort into their books then I'll reconsider.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, College books have proofreading and require people with doctorates to write them. That is too funny.

Wow, what college text books do you get? (Genuinely curious.)

 MWHistorian wrote:

(Rant)
And before someone makes the inevitable "but my college books cost more!" comparison, college text books require people with doctorates a great deal of research, sometimes many years, with a lot of proof reading and hard work to assemble them. As a historian I can attest. I wrote a for fun history book on powerful women and it took me a friggin' ton of research, several days per person. When GW puts that kind of effort into their books then I'll reconsider.

If I may present exhibit A

http://www.cracked.com/article_21131_6-disturbing-things-i-learned-writing-your-textbooks.html