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Blast templates and flamer templates now hit all occupiers in the vehicle, like in 5th.

Orks are going to need a serious overhall this codex to make up for this now, otherwise I say as is, they are worse off than tyranids even, with one of their strongest options taking this big a hit.

 Orock wrote:
Blast templates and flamer templates now hit all occupiers in the vehicle, like in 5th.

Orks are going to need a serious overhall this codex to make up for this now, otherwise I say as is, they are worse off than tyranids even, with one of their strongest options taking this big a hit.

Except that's not correct. Blast weapons still don't touch vehicle occupants (nothing under Blast rules, nothing under Open-Topped, nothing under Transports referring to that at all), and template weapons only get d6 hits on the guys inside, not everyone.

I will grant you that it's slightly easier to take down a unit of 12 Boyz in a Trukk, depending on what you roll for the number of hits, but killing Boyz is not exactly difficult.

I think even GW would think twice before giving you 40 hits on the passengers of gorgons and stormswords (or something, the one baneblade variant with transport capacity)

Brother Michael wrote:
I think even GW would think twice before giving you 40 hits on the passengers of gorgons and stormswords (or something, the one baneblade variant with transport capacity)

Why, when a battlewagon with 15 burna boys hitting 5 terminators near them with a flamer template nets you 75 hits?

blast weapons hit the guys in the vehicle

If this is true, then I'm legit finished with the game. Mech Orks is the only thing I still like about the game, and this would make it absolutely worthless

 Dakkamite wrote:

blast weapons hit the guys in the vehicle

If this is true, then I'm legit finished with the game. Mech Orks is the only thing I still like about the game, and this would make it absolutely worthless

No, no, just templates.

June is rumored to have nice things in store, but the rumor mill's been rather quiet on the green front.

Its templates, i.e. flamers. It only causes D6 hits also, not the entire unit embarked.

Heres the dumb thing though.

It says "hits a building or vehicle with a unit embarked" does not say damages it. That means my AV14 face battlewagon can get "hit" by a S4 flamer even though there is NO WAY it can damage the vehicle and still damage the occupants, unless i waste points and effectiveness to add a hard top.

Unless i missed something in the Shooting restrictions saying you need to be able to hurt the target to shoot at it, which would render my fear null and void...minus hellchicken baleflamer...which is probably why this was changed imo. Buff the chicken even more, why not?

Brother Michael wrote:
I think even GW would think twice before giving you 40 hits on the passengers of gorgons and stormswords (or something, the one baneblade variant with transport capacity)

The Stormlord isn't open-topped, it is a common misconception. A decent number of people forget this, and try to fire passengers at things that don't have LOS from the troop bay, such as everything in the front arc.

You know, a part of me *wants* them to gak on mech orks that badly. Put an end to my involvement with this farce of a game.

Mercy kill.

 Dakkamite wrote:
You know, a part of me *wants* them to gak on mech orks that badly. Put an end to my involvement with this farce of a game.

Mercy kill.

Would you play if the Ork Codex made Taudar, Flying Circues, Necrons, and Screamer Stars look tame in power levels and utter cheese?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Its templates, i.e. flamers. It only causes D6 hits also, not the entire unit embarked.

Heres the dumb thing though.

It says "hits a building or vehicle with a unit embarked" does not say damages it. That means my AV14 face battlewagon can get "hit" by a S4 flamer even though there is NO WAY it can damage the vehicle and still damage the occupants, unless i waste points and effectiveness to add a hard top.

Unless i missed something in the Shooting restrictions saying you need to be able to hurt the target to shoot at it, which would render my fear null and void...minus hellchicken baleflamer...which is probably why this was changed imo. Buff the chicken even more, why not?

This...is exactly what flame throwers were designed to do. Although, as a DE player, it makes me very sad, it also makes complete sense. If anything, I think 1d6 hits on the occupants of a building is WAY too lenient.

In any event, I think that the expansion of the Vehicle Damage Chart will give mech orks more than templates are taking away.

I'm not an ork player, but it seems like this just moves template weapons higher up the target priority chart, and wouldn't they have already been near the top?

Pretty much. Flamers of any grade were already a must-take against orks since no matter what you face, the flamers will make their points back and then some.
Now its "youre a moron to not take flamers against orks."

As of right now, i feel even more obliged to bring bikernobz in order to even have a fighting chance than before. And as much as i love bringing them, i hate bringing them every...single...damn...game.... because it gets stale.

Walkers seem a LITTLE better, but still subject to the getting across the table syndrome. Yeah, theyre unable to explode from non AP2/1 weapons but AV11 2HP or AV12 3HP is pretty easy to glance to death.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Pretty much. Flamers of any grade were already a must-take against orks since no matter what you face, the flamers will make their points back and then some.
Now its "youre a moron to not take flamers against orks."

As of right now, i feel even more obliged to bring bikernobz in order to even have a fighting chance than before. And as much as i love bringing them, i hate bringing them every...single...damn...game.... because it gets stale.

Walkers seem a LITTLE better, but still subject to the getting across the table syndrome. Yeah, theyre unable to explode from non AP2/1 weapons but AV11 2HP or AV12 3HP is pretty easy to glance to death.

Do you guys list tailor in your local group? That would definitely affect things.

Yes and no. We have general lists that we have geared to deal with the races in the FLGS, which is about half of the available races. Its mostly Tau or IG, but theres a couple orks and a nid player so everyone usually has flamers around.

Dark Eldar assault builds and orks had enough reasons to fear flamethrowers already. Now even more so.

Battlewagons won't suffer its effects that much, but Trukks are pretty much unusable. And Heldrakes just became even better now, who'd guess.

I think the template thing isn't THAT bad really. I mean, there are other rules that hurt Orks much more- random charge and overwatch. If you're in a truck, you should be able to manage to out-manoeuvre any flamers knocking around anyhow.

Hmm *Puts hellhound in shopping cart*

Man...I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I think 7th ed has done a lot of good things for orks. My buddy plays mech orks, and he's pretty thrilled.

Wounds spilling over from challenges is great for charging nobz and warbosses. Vehicles being able to claim objectives is awesome, as now your troop-choice deff dreds have Objective Secured (and are slightly more durable, and get hammer of wrath).

Ramming is now more effective. Objectives will tend be closer to midfield. Yes boyz in trukks get hit with flamer templates, but how many times have people flamed your trukks? Is it so prevalent that you're throwing up your hands in defeat before even playing a single game of 7th?

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Man...I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I think 7th ed has done a lot of good things for orks. My buddy plays mech orks, and he's pretty thrilled.

Wounds spilling over from challenges is great for charging nobz and warbosses. Vehicles being able to claim objectives is awesome, as now your troop-choice deff dreds have Objective Secured (and are slightly more durable, and get hammer of wrath).

Ramming is now more effective. Objectives will tend be closer to midfield. Yes boyz in trukks get hit with flamer templates, but how many times have people flamed your trukks? Is it so prevalent that you're throwing up your hands in defeat before even playing a single game of 7th?

Transcendant C'tan get D-strength hellstorm templates.

So I can wipe out all your trukks and fry all your boys while I'm at it.

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Man...I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I think 7th ed has done a lot of good things for orks. My buddy plays mech orks, and he's pretty thrilled.

Wounds spilling over from challenges is great for charging nobz and warbosses. Vehicles being able to claim objectives is awesome, as now your troop-choice deff dreds have Objective Secured (and are slightly more durable, and get hammer of wrath).

Ramming is now more effective. Objectives will tend be closer to midfield. Yes boyz in trukks get hit with flamer templates, but how many times have people flamed your trukks? Is it so prevalent that you're throwing up your hands in defeat before even playing a single game of 7th?

Welcome to Dakka. Making snap decisions based on little to no evidence is what the 40k community does best!

 Orock wrote:
Blast templates and flamer templates now hit all occupiers in the vehicle, like in 5th.

Orks are going to need a serious overhall this codex to make up for this now, otherwise I say as is, they are worse off than tyranids even, with one of their strongest options taking this big a hit.

Word, hopefully they will get a new codex soon. On a happier note Deff Dred are better than they've been in a long time. So maybe two Big Meks, walker lists will be able to function...? And you can put a hardtop on a Battle wagon...

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Man...I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I think 7th ed has done a lot of good things for orks. My buddy plays mech orks, and he's pretty thrilled.

Wounds spilling over from challenges is great for charging nobz and warbosses. Vehicles being able to claim objectives is awesome, as now your troop-choice deff dreds have Objective Secured (and are slightly more durable, and get hammer of wrath).

Ramming is now more effective. Objectives will tend be closer to midfield. Yes boyz in trukks get hit with flamer templates, but how many times have people flamed your trukks? Is it so prevalent that you're throwing up your hands in defeat before even playing a single game of 7th?

Welcome to Dakka. Making snap decisions based on little to no evidence is what the 40k community does best!

White knighting for GW is also a favorite past time.

Have to agree the challenge thing is about as great as challenges are going to get for orks barring removing the rule all together. Challenging a single big bad bug no longer neuters your entire unit and the lowly Sergeant cant soak up my 6 S10 AP2 Warboss pklaw attacks on the charge, even though he has no way to even stall the attacks past the one that killed him lol.

Bikernobz got nastier because of this. The warboss attached to them will never be wasted, and the warlord traits are absolutely orgasmic for a bikerboss lol.

But, that aside, i want to fiend something besides bikernobz and not get tabled turn 3 because casual units hard counter everything that isnt a bikernob >.<

 Colpicklejar wrote:


Wounds spilling over from challenges is great for charging nobz and warbosses.

*Starts squealing with joy and orders 4 boxes of Nobz and 4 boxes of Ork Bikerz*

 Kain wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Man...I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I think 7th ed has done a lot of good things for orks. My buddy plays mech orks, and he's pretty thrilled.

Wounds spilling over from challenges is great for charging nobz and warbosses. Vehicles being able to claim objectives is awesome, as now your troop-choice deff dreds have Objective Secured (and are slightly more durable, and get hammer of wrath).

Ramming is now more effective. Objectives will tend be closer to midfield. Yes boyz in trukks get hit with flamer templates, but how many times have people flamed your trukks? Is it so prevalent that you're throwing up your hands in defeat before even playing a single game of 7th?

Transcendant C'tan get D-strength hellstorm templates.

So I can wipe out all your trukks and fry all your boys while I'm at it.

Oh, ok, good point- a 700 point Lord of War can now kill a maximum of 6 regular orks while they're embarked in a transport. My mistake- Ork Mechanized tactics are now officially dead!

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Man...I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I think 7th ed has done a lot of good things for orks. My buddy plays mech orks, and he's pretty thrilled.

Wounds spilling over from challenges is great for charging nobz and warbosses. Vehicles being able to claim objectives is awesome, as now your troop-choice deff dreds have Objective Secured (and are slightly more durable, and get hammer of wrath).

Ramming is now more effective. Objectives will tend be closer to midfield. Yes boyz in trukks get hit with flamer templates, but how many times have people flamed your trukks? Is it so prevalent that you're throwing up your hands in defeat before even playing a single game of 7th?

Transcendant C'tan get D-strength hellstorm templates.

So I can wipe out all your trukks and fry all your boys while I'm at it.

Oh, ok, good point- a 700 point Lord of War can now kill a maximum of 6 regular orks while they're embarked in a transport. My mistake- Ork Mechanized tactics are now officially dead!

Not your one truck.

All your trucks.

Hope you got a stompa.

 Kain wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Man...I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I think 7th ed has done a lot of good things for orks. My buddy plays mech orks, and he's pretty thrilled.

Wounds spilling over from challenges is great for charging nobz and warbosses. Vehicles being able to claim objectives is awesome, as now your troop-choice deff dreds have Objective Secured (and are slightly more durable, and get hammer of wrath).

Ramming is now more effective. Objectives will tend be closer to midfield. Yes boyz in trukks get hit with flamer templates, but how many times have people flamed your trukks? Is it so prevalent that you're throwing up your hands in defeat before even playing a single game of 7th?

Transcendant C'tan get D-strength hellstorm templates.

So I can wipe out all your trukks and fry all your boys while I'm at it.

Oh, ok, good point- a 700 point Lord of War can now kill a maximum of 6 regular orks while they're embarked in a transport. My mistake- Ork Mechanized tactics are now officially dead!

Not your one truck.

All your trucks.

Hope you got a stompa.

I feel sorry for you if that's how games you play work.

 Kain wrote:
Transcendant C'tan get D-strength hellstorm templates.

So I can wipe out all your trukks and fry all your boys while I'm at it.

Sounds like a good reason not to play a game against a Transcendent C'tan unless you want to.

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Man...I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I think 7th ed has done a lot of good things for orks. My buddy plays mech orks, and he's pretty thrilled.

Wounds spilling over from challenges is great for charging nobz and warbosses. Vehicles being able to claim objectives is awesome, as now your troop-choice deff dreds have Objective Secured (and are slightly more durable, and get hammer of wrath).

Ramming is now more effective. Objectives will tend be closer to midfield. Yes boyz in trukks get hit with flamer templates, but how many times have people flamed your trukks? Is it so prevalent that you're throwing up your hands in defeat before even playing a single game of 7th?

Transcendant C'tan get D-strength hellstorm templates.

So I can wipe out all your trukks and fry all your boys while I'm at it.

Oh, ok, good point- a 700 point Lord of War can now kill a maximum of 6 regular orks while they're embarked in a transport. My mistake- Ork Mechanized tactics are now officially dead!

Not your one truck.

All your trucks.

Hope you got a stompa.

I feel sorry for you if that's how games you play work.

5k+ games are my bread and butter.

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:
Man...I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. I think 7th ed has done a lot of good things for orks. My buddy plays mech orks, and he's pretty thrilled.

Wounds spilling over from challenges is great for charging nobz and warbosses. Vehicles being able to claim objectives is awesome, as now your troop-choice deff dreds have Objective Secured (and are slightly more durable, and get hammer of wrath).

Ramming is now more effective. Objectives will tend be closer to midfield. Yes boyz in trukks get hit with flamer templates, but how many times have people flamed your trukks? Is it so prevalent that you're throwing up your hands in defeat before even playing a single game of 7th?

Transcendant C'tan get D-strength hellstorm templates.

So I can wipe out all your trukks and fry all your boys while I'm at it.

Oh, ok, good point- a 700 point Lord of War can now kill a maximum of 6 regular orks while they're embarked in a transport. My mistake- Ork Mechanized tactics are now officially dead!

Not your one truck.

All your trucks.

Hope you got a stompa.

I feel sorry for you if that's how games you play work.

No, thats how the C'tan works. It has a movement of 18(? with the slide I think) and can use two giant helstorm flamers aimed at different units. And considering the sterotypical tactics of truckboyz that should more than enough to be within range of a majority of them if not all.