'Ardboyz Semi results

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**Minus67**

i may have pasadena and sacremento backwards since people just said northen cali and im from texas and dont know my geography

**Froggage**

Posted By Relapse on 10/15/2007 3:35 PM

Are you guys sure the Tyranid player was cheating and if so, how? I ask this because I know the guy from years past and it doesn't seem his style.

See the earlier posts, but to sum up, he had a list that he turned in and his zoanthropes at least were not on it. Plus his fex suddenly grew a 5th wound, he "remembered" when it took its fourth wound. He actually physically removed it from play and then put it back later.

Don't get me wrong though other than him both of my other opponents were GREAT! Again I want to give a shout out to the guys from Nebraska for coming all the way to Utah. What a great group. I thoroughly enjoyed my 2nd and third game regardless of the scenarios or the cheating that took place earlier. I would play either of those guys any time. From what I gathered from my buddies who played as well there weren't complaints about the people in the tourney for the most part.

**Vilicate**

I thought the second mission was a lot of fun. It really made me think of how to push my army to the max. I even played against zilla/50 genestealers, and still managed to get the 24 pt win with my eldar, which had one falcon, one wave serpent and 2 vypers. Also, my opponent had the much vaunted first turn.

Also, the list of placings for sacramento and pasedina are backwards.

**Krak_kirby**

I played in Cleveland TN at Dicehead Games and placed third. We were told to arrive at 9:30, but the owner, T.O. and judge was 25 minutes late. Target start was 10:30, but folks got stuck in traffic from Atlanta, so we waited till just before noon.

That said, the owner and another judge was available for the majority of the playing time, were pretty knowledgable of the game, and worked hard to resolve rule questions.

I could have hosed any one of my three opponents for non wysiwyg models, but didn't. There was a Blood Angels army with no bolters. There were vehicles without secondary weapons, and upgrades not modeled. Crisis suits without upgrades. There were multiple examples of non GW models, including some really strange drop pods.

I know one tau player who adjusted his point total down after round one so he wouldn't risk playing my necrons in round two. I got 23 points and he showed me his sheet with 23 points also. Then when pairings are announced I check and see he lowered his score to 22. He claimed he was mistaken on a bonus point, which would make him the most honest 40K player I've ever met.

My friend took first place with his space marine army. His round two dark eldar opponent discovered a mistake in his list. The judge checked it out, issued a ruling, removed the offending model and play continued. The model had no effect in game one or two and wasn't in game three. The marines got a massacre and went on to win the tournament.

The person I played in round two was from the same group. He would argue a point, I would argue it back. He would insist and I would offer to get the rulebook, then he says never mind. He knew how things worked and was trying to get unfair advantage. Every time we checked the book or called the judge I was right. Our game went over time and in the end we had 10 or 12 players standing around. After that game I had 5 players approach me about what a jerk he was and how well I handled it.

This group of players (I won't say from where) wouldn't let it go and went around trying to drum up support from other players. They got none as far as I can tell. I am under the impression that judges rulings are final, and that's the ultimate rule.

It really burns me up when people lose at something as subjective as this, then whine afterwards and try to lawyer their way into the winners circle. The missions were ridiculous and totally unbalanced, luck was a huge factor, and half the folks knew the missions beforehand. But everyone that has any experience with this game goes in knowing this. My friends and I enjoy 40K a lot, and we like to play in tournaments, but we know that sometimes circumstances just don't work out.

It sucks that my first post is a rant. Maybe I can be a little happier next time...

**Lemartes**

Funning thing is they never told me that he was running an illegal list, I had to ask when I heard rumor, they never told me they changed my score, I had to inquire at the end when I heard rumors, and they didn't tell me that the final results had changed until I read your post, and called to verify. Real awesome.

I told the judges when they offered to give me the 17 points that his first round opponent should also get the same because that would only be fair. They probably would not even have thought this out had I not mentioned it. Again it should never have gotten to the second round if lists were checked and verified during rounds by the judges. I am like you and will rarely question an opponents list but when all of a sudden he has exactly what he needs to just get by I start to check.(5 wounds instead of 4 ect). Then I was dumbfounded when they added up his points on the list he actually turned in and said his list is actually under and when you add in his missing Zthropes his exactly on. I was thinking or two more dakka fexes or two more squads of stealers to fit the list you face he's also exaclty spot on. Shady is shady and if the list or numbers are not right it's DQ time IMO.

**Krak_kirby**

Cleveland TN was SM, Tyranids, and Necrons (me)

**Lemartes**

I am noticing lots of new Dakka members coming on board from all the different contentions so that is a great positive anyway. Welcome to Dakka brothers.

**Froggage**

Yeah it ticked me off enough to register and post.

**Relapse**

I see the misunderstanding, I think. I was talking about the Tyranid player that had 72 stealers and 8 mc's, but no Zoanthropes, and tied for first. The Tyranid player I was against in the second round had 3 Zoeys and came from Provo. Was that the guy you're talking about?

**Froggage**

Don't know where he was from there were several Tyranid players. He was TMC plus several Zoanthropes, plus a few stealers and gaunts.

**Relapse**

That sounds like my second round opponent. Was he a short guy on the heavy side?

**Froggage**

No he was about medium height, grey shirt, thinner in build. Young guy maybe 16-18. Which round did you play him? I played him 1st game and lemartes played him 2nd game.

**Relapse**

I didn't play him, it looks like. I played a three Zoenthrope army with the rest of the makeup like you described in the 2nd round also, and ended up tying because the guy had misread his codex and had given his psycic creatures more power than they had. Your post just now made me wonder if I had been too naive and had been cheated, but it seems like it was an honest mistake on my opponents part after all.
It appears that the group he plays with had some funky house rules that he took as official all the while he's been playing and I usually only get a chance to play a game once a month if I'm lucky. With those two factors combined, I didn't catch the mistake until the end of the game, but I still had a good time going against him.

**DarkKhabal**

Posted By Krak_kirby on 10/15/2007 3:58 PM
I played in Cleveland TN at Dicehead Games and placed third. We were told to arrive at 9:30, but the owner, T.O. and judge was 25 minutes late. Target start was 10:30, but folks got stuck in traffic from Atlanta, so we waited till just before noon.

That said, the owner and another judge was available for the majority of the playing time, were pretty knowledgable of the game, and worked hard to resolve rule questions.

I could have hosed any one of my three opponents for non wysiwyg models, but didn't. There was a Blood Angels army with no bolters. There were vehicles without secondary weapons, and upgrades not modeled. Crisis suits without upgrades. There were multiple examples of non GW models, including some really strange drop pods.

I know one tau player who adjusted his point total down after round one so he wouldn't risk playing my necrons in round two. I got 23 points and he showed me his sheet with 23 points also. Then when pairings are announced I check and see he lowered his score to 22. He claimed he was mistaken on a bonus point, which would make him the most honest 40K player I've ever met.

My friend took first place with his space marine army. His round two dark eldar opponent discovered a mistake in his list. The judge checked it out, issued a ruling, removed the offending model and play continued. The model had no effect in game one or two and wasn't in game three. The marines got a massacre and went on to win the tournament.

The person I played in round two was from the same group. He would argue a point, I would argue it back. He would insist and I would offer to get the rulebook, then he says never mind. He knew how things worked and was trying to get unfair advantage. Every time we checked the book or called the judge I was right. Our game went over time and in the end we had 10 or 12 players standing around. After that game I had 5 players approach me about what a jerk he was and how well I handled it.

This group of players (I won't say from where) wouldn't let it go and went around trying to drum up support from other players. They got none as far as I can tell. I am under the impression that judges rulings are final, and that's the ultimate rule.

It really burns me up when people lose at something as subjective as this, then whine afterwards and try to lawyer their way into the winners circle. The missions were ridiculous and totally unbalanced, luck was a huge factor, and half the folks knew the missions beforehand. But everyone that has any experience with this game goes in knowing this. My friends and I enjoy 40K a lot, and we like to play in tournaments, but we know that sometimes circumstances just don't work out.

It sucks that my first post is a rant. Maybe I can be a little happier next time...

Ok let me first off say this to your comment

""The judge checked it out, issued a ruling, removed the offending model and play continued. The model had no effect in game one or two and wasn't in game three."""

there was no ruling issued as the Dark eldar player never made any complaint about it at all.. nothing was said till after the event so you just lied.

the rules specificly say if you have an illegal list you will be disqualified end of statement

number 2 the dark eldar player never brought it to anyones attention that was done by another player.

the fact your buddy decided to be an ass and start making comments about it almost caused a fight. And as a point of sportsmanship tellyour 3 tag alongs if they ever stick their noses in someone elses game while it is going on they will get removed from the tournement area.

you can save the whine comments for someone else. the fact is your buddy had an illegal list.. didnt bring 4 copies of his army list to begin with and tried to hide the fact by prinitng his list in yellow ink on white paper.

the rules specifically state if you are found to have an illegal list you will be disqualified.. now einstein explain to everyone here where enforcing that basic rule is being a rules lawyer.

it also states in gw's own tournement rules that if you are disqualified your opponent will be awarded the points for that round. now do the math if he gets the points for round 2 when he got 2 massacres in rounds 1 and 3 why he shouldnt push for it ? As it is right now its up to GW to determine if your buddy keeps his win or not

here is the link

http://us.games-workshop.com/news/events/other_events/ardboys/assets/ArdBoyzRulz.pdf

first page at the bottom read it for yourself

next as there are no official models for drop pods whats your problem with what someone uses?

**Deadshane1**

TMC lists sure did take a big dive, everyone expected them to be the shoe-in. They are the least of the big 4, those being:Space marines (loyalists of all flavors), chaos, tied with eldar for second, then TMC lists coming in with only 6 entries. They dont seem to be dominating as everyone expected. Marine lists however are sitting at 14 entries right now, and I dont beleive anyone expected that.

I shelved two TMC's myself this last round...

**keebler Powell**

Posted By DarkKhabal on 10/15/2007 1:49 PM
well cleveland had some issues as well

the lists were not checked

there was a terrain issue from the get go, the players( the majority) wanted more the owner talked to another store owner who was comming to play and they agreed to bring terrain when they arrived and got permission from one the guys working the event to put it out there was a big arguement over it

the person who came in first was found out he had an illegal army list, so that result is in doubt now

i do know gw was emailed and contacted this morning about that issue...the guy who ended up in fourth would more than liklely end up winning overall if he is disqualified and the points awarded to him

the lists of rules is right on the ard boys sheets

it says quite clearly if you are found to have an illegal list you will be disqualified

so who knows

Thats a scrape!

I know the gent in question and can tell you for a fact that there was no intentional missuse of army list and/or models. The winner of the Cleveland regionals is a very strong player and a sportsman like no other. I would know ... he has beaten me more times that I would care to count.

Another guarentee that I can make is that if he wouldn't have taken first he still would not have complained about the Two-liter-bottle-drop-pods, Or any of the non wysiwyg armies that made a showing.

Now ask yourself this. Did the model in question have ANY impact on that game?

Let me answer that for you..... No.

So if the guy who ended up in fourth would have just won the game in question then there wouldn't even be an issue. And you can't say that he lost becuase of an illegal list becuase the infraction had ABSOLUTLY NO BEARING on the game.

end.

**keebler Powell**

Posted By DarkKhabal on 10/15/2007 5:24 PM

the rules specifically state if you are found to have an illegal list you will be disqualified.. now einstein explain to everyone here where enforcing that basic rule is being a rules lawyer.

it also states in gw's own tournement rules that if you are disqualified your opponent will be awarded the points for that round. now do the math if he gets the points for round 2 when he got 2 massacres in rounds 1 and 3 why he shouldnt push for it ? As it is right now its up to GW to determine if your buddy keeps his win or not

here is the link

http://us.games-workshop.com/news/events/other_events/ardboys/assets/ArdBoyzRulz.pdf

first page at the bottom read it for yourself

next as there are no official models for drop pods whats your problem with what someone uses?

Man I gues that these don't even exist then do they.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/SPACE_MARINE_SUPPORT.html

6th from the top. see it for yourself.

I guess that I just always assumed that these were drop pod models.

**DarkKhabal**

oh wow arent you so smart.. you dont even know that forge world models are not REQUIRED to be used by games workshop. they dont have an official model for sale

so you can put that in your pipe and smoke it

and for the record i dont care one way or the other if it was an intentional oversight or not

the fact remains he used an illegal model in his list thus he should be disqualified those are the rules. you can claim whatever you want but the rules are what the rules say

now argue with that

**keebler Powell**

Posted By DarkKhabal on 10/15/2007 5:53 PM

oh wow arent you so smart.. you dont even know that forge world models are not REQUIRED to be used by games workshop. they dont have an official model for sale

so you can put that in your pipe and smoke it

and for the record i dont care one way or the other if it was an intentional oversight or not

the fact remains he used an illegal model in his list thus he should be disqualified those are the rules. you can claim whatever you want but the rules are what the rules say

now argue with that

did you just quote Austin Powers? For real?

This is a game about war and the darkness of space and really scary stuff like bugs that want to eat you and chaos dudes that want to infect you with a plague that will kill your grandma..... and your world! ...and the best you can come up with is a Dr. Eveil quote.

How bout Full Metal Jacket. Or at the very least some Forest Gump. For real man. Own up.

I think that I know of something that you might like a little better than 40k.

http://bellasara.com/

this might be more up your alley.

Have a good day.

and .... "Its easy! Ya just dont lead em' as much!"-For Bonus Points whats this from...... anybody.

**AgeOfEgos**

Seven...six.....two.....millimeter

**keebler Powell**

Posted By AgeOfEgos on 10/15/2007 6:19 PM

Seven...six.....two.....millimeter

AgeOfEgos gets the ponts.

Please put two golden stars by your name.

Now lets have people sound off about the GOOD things that they say at the tournies.

any unexpected armies?

**mikhaila**

next as there are no official models for drop pods whats your problem with what someone uses?

We had two players using drop pods in Philly. One was a space wolf player that had 7 beautifully painted FW models. The other player had two plastic drink cups that were spraypainted black, and nothing else done to them. Sort of illustrates the two extremes you may encounter.

The black drink cups were ruled to be not worthy of the Emporer's finest, and the two squads deployed normally.

**Blackheart666**

I just want to take a moment to thank the people involved in this thread that just proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, exactly WHY GW bases the winners of most of their tournaments on evertyhing EXCEPT actually winning a game.

congratulations, cookies for everyone.

**Deadshane1**

Posted By Blackheart666 on 10/15/2007 8:11 PM
I just want to take a moment to thank the people involved in this thread that just proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, exactly WHY GW bases the winners of most of their tournaments on evertyhing EXCEPT actually winning a game.

congratulations, cookies for everyone.

Sad, but there is some truth in that.

How can you honestly say that the winner of the 'Ard Boyz tournement is the best player in the country. From a series of 3 round tournements. How can you find the best player out of 50 in 3 games(baltimore SHOULD have at least 50 players)...yea.

No doubt the winner is going to be a serious opponent, but the best...?

**DarkKhabal**

Posted By mikhaila on 10/15/2007 6:51 PM

next as there are no official models for drop pods whats your problem with what someone uses?

We had two players using drop pods in Philly. One was a space wolf player that had 7 beautifully painted FW models. The other player had two plastic drink cups that were spraypainted black, and nothing else done to them. Sort of illustrates the two extremes you may encounter.

The black drink cups were ruled to be not worthy of the Emporer's finest, and the two squads deployed normally.

well thats your call if it had been me i would have dropped 2 large blast templates and told you to have a nice day as that is all i would have to do as thats what gw reccomends plain and simple

**DarkKhabal**

Posted By keebler Powell on 10/15/2007 6:13 PM

Posted By DarkKhabal on 10/15/2007 5:53 PM

oh wow arent you so smart.. you dont even know that forge world models are not REQUIRED to be used by games workshop. they dont have an official model for sale

so you can put that in your pipe and smoke it

and for the record i dont care one way or the other if it was an intentional oversight or not

the fact remains he used an illegal model in his list thus he should be disqualified those are the rules. you can claim whatever you want but the rules are what the rules say

now argue with that

did you just quote Austin Powers? For real?

This is a game about war and the darkness of space and really scary stuff like bugs that want to eat you and chaos dudes that want to infect you with a plague that will kill your grandma..... and your world! ...and the best you can come up with is a Dr. Eveil quote.

How bout Full Metal Jacket. Or at the very least some Forest Gump. For real man. Own up.

I think that I know of something that you might like a little better than 40k.

http://bellasara.com/

this might be more up your alley.

Have a good day.

and .... "Its easy! Ya just dont lead em' as much!"-For Bonus Points whats this from...... anybody.

i love it.. you are trying to defend someone who broke the rules when pointed out to you that he did the best you can do is attack my response

you are so lame

**Lemartes**

Remember to keep it nice gentlemen so we can continue to post results and not get the thread locked. I still think the best players will still be in the mix and those who make top five in each regional are going to be exceptional players regardless. It's just to bad thier were so many muck ups considering the first round went smoothly in most areas. Maybe the big prize awards brought out the worst in some people?

**Krak_kirby**

Hey Blackheart,

I don't get it. How did this thread prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt? I don't think Games Workshop has a plan at all besides making money. I play and try to have fun in spite of the asinine support GW gives us when it comes to organized play. Maybe if they actually had a tournament policy that didn't involve rolling a D6 to resolve questions it would work better.

**Krak_kirby**

I agree with Lemartes that the prizes brought out the worst in players. I got along fine with the people who were out of the running, it was some contenders that were testy (or worse). I'm surprised GW left it to the retailers to provide any support besides the first prize, especially since we didn't pay to play.

I don't blame Dicehead Games for not offering any, and they were cool enough to offer a 20% discount on GW during the tournament.

**Centurian99**

TMC lists sure did take a big dive, everyone expected them to be the shoe-in. They are the least of the big 4, those being:Space marines (loyalists of all flavors), chaos, tied with eldar for second, then TMC lists coming in with only 6 entries. They dont seem to be dominating as everyone expected. Marine lists however are sitting at 14 entries right now, and I dont beleive anyone expected that.
I shelved two TMC's myself this last round...

We could have told you that. TMCs is absolutely dominant at 1500 points, extremely powerful at 1750, strong at 2000, and at 2500, its starts to get a bit weak, especially against other top-tier lists. The simple fact is that the TMC army presents roughly the same number of T6 wounds at 1500 as it does at 2500, while their opponents significantly increae their heavy weapons capacity.