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Posted By DarkKhabal on 10/15/2007 8:26 PM

Posted By mikhaila on 10/15/2007 6:51 PM

next as there are no official models for drop pods whats your problem with what someone uses?

We had two players using drop pods in Philly. One was a space wolf player that had 7 beautifully painted FW models. The other player had two plastic drink cups that were spraypainted black, and nothing else done to them. Sort of illustrates the two extremes you may encounter.

The black drink cups were ruled to be not worthy of the Emporer's finest, and the two squads deployed normally.

well thats your call if it had been me i would have dropped 2 large blast templates and told you to have a nice day as that is all i would have to do as thats what gw reccomends plain and simple

Heh, right. Not in my store, at my tournament. You'd have had 3 choices: play with no drop pods, walk away from the tournament, or pull a couple of appropriate models out of somewhere real quick.

Posted By Krak_kirby on 10/15/2007 8:48 PM
I agree with Lemartes that the prizes brought out the worst in players. I got along fine with the people who were out of the running, it was some contenders that were testy (or worse). I'm surprised GW left it to the retailers to provide any support besides the first prize, especially since we didn't pay to play.

I don't blame Dicehead Games for not offering any, and they were cool enough to offer a 20% discount on GW during the tournament.

GW was offering prize support equal to a RTT for the first tournament (roughly 150.00 in prizes), and a battleforce for the 2nd and 3rd place winners at the regionals.

Again, the results for Sacramento and Pasadena are reversed.



Agreed. I think that playing at 2500 pts is all about how many tricks you have. Eldar have dice control, necrons have their teleportation, chaos has the lash, and space marines have brutal psychic powers & leadership abilities.

That's just what my group came up with after playing a ton of games.

From what I heard, Redmond was CSM (Undivided), Chaos (EC) and Necrons

Posted By mikhaila on 10/15/2007 9:12 PM

Posted By Krak_kirby on 10/15/2007 8:48 PM
I agree with Lemartes that the prizes brought out the worst in players. I got along fine with the people who were out of the running, it was some contenders that were testy (or worse). I'm surprised GW left it to the retailers to provide any support besides the first prize, especially since we didn't pay to play.

I don't blame Dicehead Games for not offering any, and they were cool enough to offer a 20% discount on GW during the tournament.

GW was offering prize support equal to a RTT for the first tournament (roughly 150.00 in prizes), and a battleforce for the 2nd and 3rd place winners at the regionals.

Funny, I dont seem to have a battleforce lying around even though I got 3rd....   My store gave out nothing.

Ask the store about it. They might not have asked, the rep might not have mentioned it, or the guy placing the orders didn't tell the guy running the tournament. It's a no brainer for a store, they make a customer happy, and GW pays for it. Inquire about it, explain that you talked to another retailer that held a regional, and that's how you got the information.

I just let the 2nd and 3rd place guys pull a battleforce off the shelf and my rep is replacing them for free this week.

I joined DAKKA just to post here (it seems I'm not alone either).

I was at Cleveland, TN and know the owner personally and would like to address some of the comments made here.

yes, the tourney was delayed for a bit less than an hour, because of a really bad wreck in Atl. that closed the interstates. There were several players who were coming stuck in this.

The terain was a bit sparse (6 pieces per table) but I have played at GTs with much less. The problem we talked about was that it was all mostly buildings. The issues with terrain were brought up by the group that brought more terrain, and subsiquently started moving eveything around to accomodate their terrain they brought, without consulting with the owner first. Basically they tried to railroad the guy into using more terrain. They also were very pushy with him about other issues early on. This guy is a very nice guy who has a business to run and was nice enough to host both rounds of this tourney for very little gain. He didn't deserve the flak.

The issues with the "illegal" army were brought up after the tourney, but the guy did realize it earlier and I was told quit using the offending model. The issue was he had a termy librarian with a familiar, which doesn't have the "*" by it so it can't be used by a termy character. I spoke with the player who played him with the Familiar and he said it made no difference in their game. If it was an honest mistake he should be able to move on. The people giving Shaun (the owner) grief over the issue were the same people who had earlier. The guy who came in 4th who had the most to profit from it, was fine with him winning. I know the 4th place guy as well and he said Shaun was right.

I have played the guy who was the most vocal about these issues, and I had several rules "debates" with him also, all of which were due to his lack of rules knowledge or a real sketchy interpretation of the rules. Mostly revolving around the phrase "Must move towards" meaning "directly towards" or "end your move 1/2" closer to".


All-in-all I had a good time, came in 7th and hated the screwy missions. The 2nd one was totally mind blowing. I went first and got Massacred (Mephiston deploying 6"=BAD for Guardians!) that put me out. I agree that if GW wants to see who's the best at the game they should play standard missions that people actually USE in the game, not some wacky crap no one would agree to if they had a choice.

Anyways, its late and I'm going to curl up next to the lovely wife, sorry for ranting in my first post, but others on here pissed me off.

- K

To add to the discussion - I went to Showcase in Media and have to say Mike ran the tournament very well. He made quick decisions when asked. He didn't disappear. The terrain might have been a bit lopsided on some tables, but on the whole I don't think that there was a bad table. In the first game my opponent had 2 bunkers and a woods in his deployment area while I had a hill and 2 woods.
Game #1 vs a mech eldar, with 2 jetbike squads, 2 fireprisms, 1 falcon, 2 shining spear squads, and 3 units of harlies. That is speed and close combat in his force. On top of that he went first. I still managed to take the ticket away from him with a footslogging ork army, for a minor win.
Game #2 vs armoured company, I went second yet again. I managed to massacre my opponent. I had 3 units over 500 points that could in basically no way hurt his army. They each hid in a corner and took no place in the game. With no assault and going 2nd, it meant that I didn't get to hurt any of his tanks until the 2nd turn, after withstanding 2 rounds of his shooting.

Those two results seem to go against the grain of what everyone is saying happened in their experiences. Game #3 was a tough one against another mech eldar player. I pulled out a minor win - good enough for 4th place with a codex that still has staff pictures in it.

#1. I thought that everything in my store went great. We had no problems except as you saw on the news that they shut down I-5 and we had to wait an extra hour for the people north of LA to show up. I was just thinking that they can get rid of the sportsmanship scores in GW tournaments, but I guess I was a bit premature.

#2. There is no way to find out the best player in 40k is. Compare it to poker?you know who the top poker players are, but can you say who is the best? Is it the winner of the WSOP? So, I can tell you who some of the best 40k players in the country are, but I can?t tell you who the best is.

#3. I think the purpose of the missions was to knock out the one-trick cheesy armies. For example, all skimmer Eldar could not take the ticket. You have to get out of your boat and get the crap shot out of you. Also, take a look at foot marine/chaos/IG army with a lot of heavy weapons, and you get a mission where you can?t sit in your deployment zone and shoot. You need to move forward with whatever units you have, or just blow away anything that comes close to the ticket. Mission #2 was to slow down Demon bomb/Drop Pod/Lysander Wing/ armies. Mission #3 slowed down a lot of armies because escalation is part of the game, but you never see it at tournaments. That hurt TMC and some other armies.

#4. You should always get a copy of you opponents list at the beginning of the game, and refer to it as needed. See the ?Ardboyz rules for clarification.

Posted By Blackmoor on 10/15/2007 11:02 PM
#1. I thought that everything in my store went great. We had no problems except as you saw on the news that they shut down I-5 and we had to wait an extra hour for the people north of LA to show up. I was just thinking that they can get rid of the sportsmanship scores in GW tournaments, but I guess I was a bit premature.

[Stelek]  They need to run standardized tournaments, a year long--and make people pay to enter.  Bringing a painted army should also be a required portion--it need not be as good as you can buy from pro paint services, but being monochrome and calling it an effect should get you shown the door.

#2. There is no way to find out the best player in 40k is. Compare it to poker…you know who the top poker players are, but can you say who is the best? Is it the winner of the WSOP? So, I can tell you who some of the best 40k players in the country are, but I can’t tell you who the best is.

[Stelek]  Seeing who and what 'won' so far has me wondering if you realize the very armies you want knocked out are the ones going to the tourney in Baltimore?

#3. I think the purpose of the missions was to knock out the one-trick cheesy armies. For example, all skimmer Eldar could not take the ticket. You have to get out of your boat and get the crap shot out of you. Also, take a look at foot marine/chaos/IG army with a lot of heavy weapons, and you get a mission where you can’t sit in your deployment zone and shoot. You need to move forward with whatever units you have, or just blow away anything that comes close to the ticket. Mission #2 was to slow down Demon bomb/Drop Pod/Lysander Wing/ armies. Mission #3 slowed down a lot of armies because escalation is part of the game, but you never see it at tournaments. That hurt TMC and some other armies.

[Stelek]  Sounds good, your argument....but it doesn't hold with reality.  I have pretty much every army and it's variants--including the ones listed above.  The 'Ticket' mission would have been fine if there was a specified amount of terrain on the board and not anywhere near the center of the board.  Having 12-18" of solid area terrain around the center point is always 'bad' for 40K games.
FYI I toyed with my opponents *gak*ty army in my first game, and just sat in my deployment zone and shot him off the ticket.  I could have done something different, like win--but why bother?  Mission 2 was to slow down demon bomb armies?  Are you sure?  Since every Chaos player with any sense removed the Demons from their army when they were nerfed to 'something-less-than-a-guardsman'.  Lysander is old news, everyone knows how to crush 25 Termies.  Drop pod isn't really troubled, since they can setup next to you and shoot you twice.  So, mission 2 was and is a Apocalypse mission not suitable for tournament play.  Just like Mission 1.  How about this line of thinking:  You start first with a Titan on the board, and the other guy can't assault you on turn 1.  Now how much of your army is going to be left when it's done shooting you into the dirt?  Put some templates down and even a Baneblade can rip a standard 2500 'Ard Boyz list apart.  Mission 3 was, like many of GW's Mission 3 (GT Saturday, Game 3) a mission with no point other than to punish mechanized players.  Well, guess what?  My opponent brought every vehicle in on Turn 2.  I blew them all to pieces.  One squad made it to my side of the board.  Was that fun for me?  Not really.  Fun for my opponent?  No, but he took it like a man.  Personally I don't need the prizes, the awards, or my name up in lights--I can afford, do without, and don't care enough; respectively.  I know I can play a standard mission and walk through 99% of the opponents out there, but GW doesn't listen to their veteran players and the game dies for us a little bit more with every passing year.   Oh and before I forget, my friend stjohn took his skimmer eldar and took the ticket.  Froggage took his foot slogging IG and shot everyone to pieces.  *shrug*

#4. You should always get a copy of you opponents list at the beginning of the game, and refer to it as needed. See the ‘Ardboyz rules for clarification.

[Stelek] Sorry, this will never wash.  Players responsible for matching the lists up?  That's what Judges are for.  They don't allow the players to judge in professional sports, nor amateur.

Sorry for including everything in the quote in Italics, but I go on and on sometimes. 

At any rate, I'm thinking of putting together another of my tournaments next month.  It's sad really, I have to run tournaments to get any fun out of the game because all the tournaments are run so poorly.  Your gain, my loss...

Posted By Nurgleboy77 on 10/15/2007 9:47 PM
I joined DAKKA just to post here (it seems I'm not alone either).

I was at Cleveland, TN and know the owner personally and would like to address some of the comments made here.

yes, the tourney was delayed for a bit less than an hour, because of a really bad wreck in Atl. that closed the interstates. There were several players who were coming stuck in this.

The terain was a bit sparse (6 pieces per table) but I have played at GTs with much less. The problem we talked about was that it was all mostly buildings. The issues with terrain were brought up by the group that brought more terrain, and subsiquently started moving eveything around to accomodate their terrain they brought, without consulting with the owner first. Basically they tried to railroad the guy into using more terrain. They also were very pushy with him about other issues early on. This guy is a very nice guy who has a business to run and was nice enough to host both rounds of this tourney for very little gain. He didn't deserve the flak.

The issues with the "illegal" army were brought up after the tourney, but the guy did realize it earlier and I was told quit using the offending model. The issue was he had a termy librarian with a familiar, which doesn't have the "*" by it so it can't be used by a termy character. I spoke with the player who played him with the Familiar and he said it made no difference in their game. If it was an honest mistake he should be able to move on. The people giving Shaun (the owner) grief over the issue were the same people who had earlier. The guy who came in 4th who had the most to profit from it, was fine with him winning. I know the 4th place guy as well and he said Shaun was right.

I have played the guy who was the most vocal about these issues, and I had several rules "debates" with him also, all of which were due to his lack of rules knowledge or a real sketchy interpretation of the rules. Mostly revolving around the phrase "Must move towards" meaning "directly towards" or "end your move 1/2" closer to".


All-in-all I had a good time, came in 7th and hated the screwy missions. The 2nd one was totally mind blowing. I went first and got Massacred (Mephiston deploying 6"=BAD for Guardians!) that put me out. I agree that if GW wants to see who's the best at the game they should play standard missions that people actually USE in the game, not some wacky crap no one would agree to if they had a choice.

Anyways, its late and I'm going to curl up next to the lovely wife, sorry for ranting in my first post, but others on here pissed me off.

- K

i love it when people who have no real knowledge of what went on speak out

1 the owner was consulted about the terrain thats why it was broguht in the first place

2. the guy who opened the store told them to put it out if they wanted that ends your stupid commentary about railroading anyone

3 again i say it didnt matter when he realized the model was wrong, the fact was and still remains it was illegal. thus it disqualifies him. there is no arguing that point. the rules are very plain.

4 6 pieces of terrain? not nearly not on every bopard there was a total of 3 on the board that the issue happened.. and the guys the most vocal about it.. you guessed it the ones with all shooty armies.. imagine that

 

again the rules are very simple if you have an illegal army list you are disqualified

 

mikhalia

i can understand your point of view but if someone walked in with only blast templates and you denied him the use of them id walk out as well. thats what gw says is valid for you to say otherwise doesnt speak to well of how you follow the rules either

Thank God Stelek is not going. Having someone who whines and complains as much as his condecending comments indicate would make for a miserable tournament. If he lost first round he would complain that his opponent cheated him if he was playing Jervis himself.

It sounds like his ego was brought back down to reality and now he spends his first 5 posts crying about it. Blackmoor knows what he is talking about. Your responses to him are childish and uninformed.

Sorry for the harshness, I'm just tired of the *female dog*fest this thread has turned into.

Now go and write up a long complaint about me. Your safe behind your computer screen.

I thought he made (Stelek) valid arguments and used examples so to Blackmoor. The tourny he was involved in was a cluster and I have played in numorous over the years and this was about as bad as it gets so I don't know if I would go as far as to call it whining. The best thing about it all is I did meet some new players who were great guys and hopefully GW has figured out to not host a regional in these same stores. Darth did make a great suggestion tho' lets hear about some more positive experiences. I am still waiting for some battle reports in the appropriate thread.

First off, I don't know how this forum goes but I don't appreciate the hostility from you, DarkKhabal.

What I do know is that you guys came in and started reorganizing all the tables, and the owner had to come in and fix all the tables back. It got very heated about the "discussion" of the tables and yo uguys ended up looking very bad and it was embarassing how the tourney started. Putting us all off on the wrong foot.



Yes, they are very plain, they say that the Judge has the final say in all matters, and that no debate wil lbe entered into. He said it was cool if he just took it off, and that's that. Anything else is just whining. He judged it to be a mistake and not a gross violation of the rules. Which incidently that Guard guy was cheating as well. I just didn't have to play him this time to call him out on it. It was due to a lack of rules knowledge and not trying to cheat, but he stil lhad it all wrong.

Lemartes - I agree wtih Darth that Steleks comments really are not meaningful and are condecending.

1a. Year long tournmanets - GW has the big events with the GTs, which have been continuously improving this year. The events already require a painted force and require you to pay to play. So what was his point to Blackmoor. Nothing really.

1b. I give Dave Taylor and their crew a lot of credit for putting on the 'ard Boyz Event. I like the concept with unpainted models with the 'ard Boyz since I have a hard time wanting to field lower quality painted minis now at GTs. The events are a little last minute, but all of the players from Toledo have had good experiences at three different local and regional events. It's been fun to play at the 'ard Boyz with different units that I normally do not field major competitions.

2 & 3. Allen (Blackmoor) knows that there will be one sided armies that get through. Any true gaming veteran of dakka or the tournament scene would realize this. Great players will be able to take almost any army and make it through to the finals (one sided armies included). The missions actually did help to eliminate the rift raft because even bad players can win with certain armies quite a bit in standard missions. The solid general can adapt to almost any circumstance even when given a mission that puts your army at a significant disadvantage.

4. Opponents better provide a list to each other and a good player should continually refer to it during a game to the point of verifying that their opponent is playing with the right models / wargear / special rules. Judges can monitor and check lists, but not realistically check every board during every minutes of every round. As far as Stelek's comment, I'm still wondering what point he was trying to make.

5. Finally - Stating that all tournaments are run poorly and that he can only run a "Fun Tournament" - this is an insult to all tournament organizers. As a veteran traveler (UK Heat/Finals, 10+ GTs, 4 AdeptiCons and more) - I can almost guarantee that Stelek has not been to AdeptiCon nor Vegas 2007, nor Chicago 2007, nor LA Gamesday 2007, nor the UK 2006/2007. These were all well run events and purposely trying to berate them blindly shows a lack of field experience and maturity.

Overall, due to the scope of the 'ard Boyz Competition, there was most likely going to be some shennanigans. As Lemartes stated, hopefully the future will not see some of the problem stores host the event (that is if there was really any problem). For our group though, there were a lot of players that had a really good time. We have four hitting the road for the 'ard Boyz Finals and about seven for the Baltimore GT. We personally can not wait for the 'ard Boyz Finals, because each game has the potential to face off against a bruttal opponent. All I have to say is I am glad I do not have to play at the 'ard Boyz Finals on 8' boards anymore.

Posted By DarkKhabal on 10/16/2007 5:36 AM

mikhalia

i can understand your point of view but if someone walked in with only blast templates and you denied him the use of them id walk out as well. thats what gw says is valid for you to say otherwise doesnt speak to well of how you follow the rules either

Follow who's rules? Yours? You can debate what counts as a drop pod till you pass out from lack of oxygen, it changes nothing. 

 GW is just fine with my ruling that a drop pod is more than a plastic disc. I was the TO, I had final say. In point of fact, I discussed it with GW when we were setting it up the tournaments, posted it on the store website, and we did our best to discuss issues like drop pods with each person as they called up to register. We asked every person "Do you have any questions about WYSIWYG, or about any thing in the game that might be played differently at your store vs mine?

Many players worked very hard on their armies, and at least half of the armies at the regionals were fully painted, very nice looking armies. I think it's insulting to the players that work hard to let something like black primered cups be used at a drop pod. They had no doors marked, no weapons, nothing but black primer. Black cups are black cups. Ordinance Templates are Ordinance Templates. GW may not have an official model, but that doesn't mean you can use anything. in a 'ardboyz WYSIWYG tournament. Someone who wants to use a drop pod can at least put in an hours time modeling one. All your trying to do is defend a players right to be lazy. Fine for a game on your ping pong table, not fine in my store, especially not during a regional tournament when everyone playing is, supposedly, a top player from another store.

WYSIWYG was also a rule, and a more important one to inforce than the "my opinion says I can use anything" rule.

Posted By Nurgleboy77 on 10/16/2007 7:08 AM

2. the guy who opened the store told them to put it out if they wanted that ends your stupid commentary about railroading anyone

First off, I don't know how this forum goes but I don't appreciate the hostility from you, DarkKhabal.

What I do know is that you guys came in and started reorganizing all the tables, and the owner had to come in and fix all the tables back. It got very heated about the "discussion" of the tables and yo uguys ended up looking very bad and it was embarassing how the tourney started. Putting us all off on the wrong foot.

3 again i say it didnt matter when he realized the model was wrong, the fact was and still remains it was illegal. thus it disqualifies him. there is no arguing that point. the rules are very plain.

Yes, they are very plain, they say that the Judge has the final say in all matters, and that no debate wil lbe entered into. He said it was cool if he just took it off, and that's that. Anything else is just whining. He judged it to be a mistake and not a gross violation of the rules. Which incidently that Guard guy was cheating as well. I just didn't have to play him this time to call him out on it. It was due to a lack of rules knowledge and not trying to cheat, but he stil lhad it all wrong.

ok once again you dont know what you are talking about

they asked the person who opened the store if it was ok to set more terrain out he said YES...thats the stores breakdown  NOT THEIRS the owner was LATE.. to suggest anything else is your attempt to make them look bad to defend your position.

Rob does not give a flying flip about the fact he lost ..couldnt bother him less he didnt lose to better army he lost due to a stupid scenario.. Rob does care about a rules violation.. Rob does care the owner  didnt follow tournement policies plain and simple

and read the ard boyz rule sheets it doesnt say judges discretion it says if you have an illegal list you will be disqualified period end of sentence. there is nothing in there about the judge can say it doesnt matter.

at this level of competition the" i didnt know "comment doesnt hold water

you dont build an honor your wargear chapter triat army and not know the rules thats a load of garbage

 

and i love the guard player was trying to cheat comment you have no proof of anything you didnt play him you are basing that off of your personal involvment with him from your local area which i know why that is. he doesnt think much of you either

 

if you have any proof Blake cheated i challenge you to produce it.. if not then i think you should stop sticking your nose in where it doesnt concern you. this is between chris and rob and no one else other than gw

 

and thats my last word on the matter... Rob just called me and told me to shut up about it

Posted By mikhaila on 10/16/2007 7:53 AM

Posted By DarkKhabal on 10/16/2007 5:36 AM

mikhalia

i can understand your point of view but if someone walked in with only blast templates and you denied him the use of them id walk out as well. thats what gw says is valid for you to say otherwise doesnt speak to well of how you follow the rules either

Follow who's rules? Yours? You can debate what counts as a drop pod till you pass out from lack of oxygen, it changes nothing. 

 GW is just fine with my ruling that a drop pod is more than a plastic disc. I was the TO, I had final say. In point of fact, I discussed it with GW when we were setting it up the tournaments, posted it on the store website, and we did our best to discuss issues like drop pods with each person as they called up to register. We asked every person "Do you have any questions about WYSIWYG, or about any thing in the game that might be played differently at your store vs mine?

Many players worked very hard on their armies, and at least half of the armies at the regionals were fully painted, very nice looking armies. I think it's insulting to the players that work hard to let something like black primered cups be used at a drop pod. They had no doors marked, no weapons, nothing but black primer. Black cups are black cups. Ordinance Templates are Ordinance Templates. GW may not have an official model, but that doesn't mean you can use anything. in a 'ardboyz WYSIWYG tournament. Someone who wants to use a drop pod can at least put in an hours time modeling one. All your trying to do is defend a players right to be lazy. Fine for a game on your ping pong table, not fine in my store, especially not during a regional tournament when everyone playing is, supposedly, a top player from another store.

WYSIWYG was also a rule, and a more important one to inforce than the "my opinion says I can use anything" rule.

thats not my opinion thats the word put out by gw that you may use a large blast template to simulate the drop pod..

pure and simple.. dont bother attacking me because you want to hold people to a higher standard that isnt required.

""

WYSIWYG was also a rule, and a more important one to inforce than the "my opinion says I can use anything" rule. """   what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? if gw says you may use a large blast template for a drop pod then thats it.. there is nothing else equired.. you want to hold non official tournements in your store that way.. god bless you i support that fully.. but this si a gw sanctioned event to add your own opinions isnt valid and my point remians unchanged. and anyone whinning about what is or isnt modeled on a drop pods is a weak player and a sorry human being in my opinion... everyone knows what a drop pods has period

 

thats why you also produce army lists for everyone which doesnt always happen either

Again I hope most tournaments go to 'ard boyz style missions. I had three good games against three good people. yeah i got hosed on table selection. My first game versus armoured company and last game versus mech eldar where both on the same wide open board. but the missions where challanging and any balanced army could have won the first two games. The further we move away from cleanse they better.

Just to give you a reference for how army and model violations are handled in the UK -

1. In Heat One last year a friend of mine lost two points per the rules of the event because he was three points over on his list. It was a simple math error, but that math error prevented him from qualifying. The GT staff handled it just as it stated in the book.

2. This is second hand information. A buddy of mine in the UK informed me that one of the Europeans had models removed from the UK GT in 2006 because his ork trucks were 2' long.

I hate to be a stickler on it, but giving a free pass to someone that has an illegal list is not a good thing. It just condones this behavoir and as a high level player, you should know your list inside and out. Even worse now how do you decide what illegal list is acceptable or not?

but this si a gw sanctioned event to add your own opinions isnt valid and my point remians unchanged

Yeah, I guess having my opinion backed up by GW doesn't matter either. )

Have a wonderful day.

what do you expect they will tell you? no make them buy forge world drop pods or whatever... give me a break

no one not myself or anyone else is claiming you dont have the right to make higher standards for your own events.. that goes without saying.. but you dont have the right or legal precedence to make requirements that gw doesnt have and then go about saying you have the full backing of gw thats your word and no one can discount that.. we have spoken to gw about it as well and they say blast templates are fine... so you ahve your info we have ours.. so whos right now?

 

do us a favor try being a little bit more understanding get off your high horse and stop acting like you and you alone have the ear of gw and stop acting like your a god

thats how you come across and it gets old real fast

Posted By Inquisitor_Malice on 10/16/2007 8:08 AM
Just to give you a reference for how army and model violations are handled in the UK -

1. In Heat One last year a friend of mine lost two points per the rules of the event because he was three points over on his list. It was a simple math error, but that math error prevented him from qualifying. The GT staff handled it just as it stated in the book.

2. This is second hand information. A buddy of mine in the UK informed me that one of the Europeans had models removed from the UK GT in 2006 because his ork trucks were 2' long.

I hate to be a stickler on it, but giving a free pass to someone that has an illegal list is not a good thing. It just condones this behavoir and as a high level player, you should know your list inside and out. Even worse now how do you decide what illegal list is acceptable or not?

Thank you

thats all i was trying to get across

yeah that math mistake at uk gt was me. I blame my dumbass "friend" who wrote my list up as we drove from chester to nottingham

Uh Dark - if you come into any major event (GTs, AdeptiCon and more) and you try to use plastic cups or blast templates for drop pods, you will get laughed at and any good tournament judge will have those removed from the board. Playing with a McDonald's cup is not 40K. It is quite obvious that the player did not put in any effort to model the pods and your blast template does not cut it. Otherwise we can really get into Proxy 40K (what we play in my basement). Then we can have D&D Monsters as carnifexes, dragons as giant squiggoths and more. Surely Optimus Prime can be Angarroth and Starscream is a bloodthirster.

I find this thread highly amusing. I have absolutely no interests involved, but let me see if I can figure this out.

It looks like one party made a mistake, had an extra model on the table, and had it removed when the mistake was pointed out to him. This may have even happened in his second game versus a different opponent.

Upon hearing of this, another party claimed the first should be disqualified and the second party should be awarded full points. This was over ruled by the Tournament Organizer. It was also pointed out to the second party that black primered cups don?t cut it as models in a GW tournament.

The guy with the crap pods is arguing to follow the letter of the law, and be awarded full points. What?s funny with that is that the ?ard boyz rule packet also states ?Any conversions must begin as citadel models and contain a majority of citadel components.? A do it yourself Drop pod would be a conversion right? Somehow I don?t think a black cup or a blast template meets the requirements of beginning as a citadel model or containing a majority of citadel components. So if we are following the rules to the letter of the law, wouldn?t both parties be disqualified?

;~)

<Begin Sarcasm>

I think whoever feels wronged by this situation, or any of the ?ard boyz tournaments, should sue GW. A 3,000 point army for winning isn?t small potatoes as a prize. I?m not sure of the specifics, but that has to be worth a thousand bucks if you get to pick the models in the army.

I have this pet theory that if the 40k rulebook were to be entered into evidence in a court of law, and the rules issues argued out there, the sheer enormity of the logical paradoxes involved would make the universe implode.

We?ve tried begging GW for an FAQ, and that obviously hasn?t worked. Maybe we can force GW to publish an FAQ by suing it out of them to resolve a court case of who gets the prize.

I?ve seen weirder things happen here.

;~)

</Sarcasm>

When I say GW agreed with me on what was allowed in the two 'Ardboyz tournaments, I'm referring to the people that organized the tournaments, wrote the scenarios, wrote the rules packets, and selected the venues. We discussed what "WYSIWYG" means in respect to drop pods.

If they had said "let them use anything" I would have had no problem with it. But that wasn't what they said. We agreed that it could be a scratch built model, but that some effort had to be made, weapons modelled, and exit points clearly marked. It was up to me to judge them on a case by case basis.

Since I was following the guildlines set down by the overall tourney organizers, and was in charge of the regional, I don't see anywhere that I violated any GW rules. If you have a problem with that, I really don't care one way or another.

Have a wonderful day.

Posted By skkipper on 10/16/2007 8:25 AM
yeah that math mistake at uk gt was me. I blame my dumbass "friend" who wrote my list up as we drove from chester to nottingham

Or the friend who refused to rewrite your list that was on an envelope while the 100 MPH super mini van sped through the English country side. 

"""The guy with the crap pods is arguing to follow the letter of the law, and be awarded full points. ""

uh no thats 2 different issues,might want to go re read the posts.. thanks
and uh last time i checked a large blast template was and is a citadel piece of equipment...

"""If you have a problem with that, I really don't care one way or another."""

and thats fine.. we spoke to gw and they said something different.. go figure.. not like that hasnt happened before

it also doesnt change what gw has said about drop pods and blast templates. the fact you wont accept that doesnt change that fact either

and you have a nice day as well