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skeeve wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:
Sorry mate but the excuse that cathay miniature broke the rules because of some little chinese characters on banner is way to far fetched... If that was the case then the slayer sword should have been disqualified also because on the text on the banner there is text in latin refering to GOD, etc...

The formality of any rule is convenient for a judge because he can chose whether and where to apply it or not. Go watch figure scatting; they are doing it all the time.
However, the formality of rules is very convenient for entrants as well - you know what to avoid. As for the reference to God on a scroll, well, the official title of the Emperor is the God-Emperor..

Yes, it could be "Emperor god" but if i was a anal judge i could disqualify it because hey its maybe a real life reference... see my point? Its not the rules but the way judges interpret them and apply them.
In judge defense I have to say that he probably doesnt know the chinese language and was afraid that the phrase said ( gw suck )
With that said no rules can resist the so random judge mood and background... its really a shot in the dark if your going to compete at a gd... ( actually french GD had a super system of including actual ex champs that do really have a background on how to paint minis)
Figure skating is for sissys Joking here

NAVARRO wrote:
Also dont be naive enough to think all GD's share same rulling if you followed european ones you would know how diferent they are between each other and how diferently rulles are applied... Im not saying they are better or worse... just diferent.

Umm where exactly I said this? All I said that the similar clause was invoked recently in a different country. For all I know, they might decide all of a sudden to enforce this particular clause on all GDs..

Any model that can have a pic and stand up that well at tripple the size of the original model deserves to win, busy or not.

Also love the zombies vs man in boat.
Not really dueling yet though are they?

skeeve wrote:
Go watch figure scatting; they are doing it all the time.

I think ill pass

xcutionr2 wrote:

skeeve wrote:
Go watch figure scatting; they are doing it all the time.

I think ill pass

The images that this brings up are just frightening - the lift to gain additional projectile height for example. I am stuck on how you manage to get the points for "artistic impression" into a sport so obvious lack any sense of decency.

I have in my hot little hands right now, two of my older citadel figs.

They are a OH1 'ninja' and a OH2 'samurai'. From the "Oriental heroes" line. I bought them in blister in 1990. Real world setting, made by citadel.

Here are links to not only the models that I listed, but to NUMEROUS MODELS in that range.
http://collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Oriental_Heroes
http://collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Ninja_-_OH1

Now my question is, if I showed up to the competition with one of these painted, would I be disqualified as well?
If not, then why disqualify a model that used a citadel model as its base?

The judgment frankly has no basis to stand on.

They can do whatever they want, ofcourse. But don't try to throw excuses as to why you picked probably the best model in that competition into the DQ bin based on 'rules'.

stonefox wrote:The funny thing about the whole Cathayan model is that it's not allowed "because it's Chinese"

[annoyingly pendantic]It's not Chinese. It's Japanese. If it was labelled as a "Guardsman of Nippon", maybe it would have been let in? If they want to pass it off as a guardsman of Cathay, they should probably stick to what little background GW has given us on Cathay- Geomancers, stone dog warriors, etc.[/annoyingly pendantic]

So um...where does one find pictures of this super-mega-controversial figure, anyway? I don't believe I've seen it in any of the Games Day coverage I've been able to find.

stonefox wrote:The funny thing about the whole Cathayan model is that it's not allowed "because it's Chinese" yet there's an official model of an iconic ninja costume on an Ogre. Wasn't there a diorama of that ninja Ogre under a cherry tree that placed? Or was that given only an honorable mention? I forget.

SHHHH, or Red China will read that, assume Games Workshop is Pro-Tibet and block all internet sites dealing with GW, Think of poor KidKyoto stuck in middle.



I am wondering if one of the other entrants raised hell about that mini, or had an uncle or friend who was judge DQ that mini. Whoever made that decision should not be allowed to judge miniatures again ever.

@Bob. Middle one in the first row.

maybe the judges gave the slayer award as a "make-up" call.

the judges decided the cathay model was DQ'd, but saw the error of their ways and decided to give it to the inquistor. same artist if i'm not mistaken.

just a thought.

take care

JOHIRA wrote:

stonefox wrote:The funny thing about the whole Cathayan model is that it's not allowed "because it's Chinese"

[annoyingly pendantic]It's not Chinese. It's Japanese. If it was labelled as a "Guardsman of Nippon", maybe it would have been let in? If they want to pass it off as a guardsman of Cathay, they should probably stick to what little background GW has given us on Cathay- Geomancers, stone dog warriors, etc.[/annoyingly pendantic]

Umm... no. They(the head painting judge, IIRC) stated in WD last year(I think) that any model that resembles Feudal Japanese or Imperial Chinese eras would be disqualified in a Golden Daemon because GW has not laid down what a Cathayan or Nipponese soldier would look like and therefore they do not and can not fit into Warhammer imagery at the present. They expressly stated that doing so is entering a Chinese or Japanese miniature, NOT a Warhammer model, and would therefore would violate the rules of the Golden Daemon competitions.

Yes, it's a beautiful model and wonderfully converted. However, it does not conform to the rules of Golden Daemons competitions: "In addition, we will look at how well the model or models fit in with the published concept of our game backgrounds. That isn't to say that we won't reward innovation and creativity, but this must be demonstrated within the spirit of the worlds we present in our various games." Cathay and Nippon are not detailed in the background, nor are they even IN the game, and therefore are not "within the spirit of the worlds".

Platuan4th wrote:
Umm... no. They(the head painting judge, IIRC) stated in WD last year(I think) that any model that resembles Feudal Japanese or Imperial Chinese eras would be disqualified in a Golden Daemon because GW has not laid down what a Cathayan or Nipponese soldier would look like and therefore they do not and can not fit into Warhammer imagery at the present. They expressly stated that doing so is entering a Chinese or Japanese miniature, NOT a Warhammer model, and would therefore would violate the rules of the Golden Daemon competitions.

Yes, it's a beautiful model and wonderfully converted. However, it does not conform to the rules of Golden Daemons competitions: "In addition, we will look at how well the model or models fit in with the published concept of our game backgrounds. That isn't to say that we won't reward innovation and creativity, but this must be demonstrated within the spirit of the worlds we present in our various games." Cathay and Nippon are not detailed in the background, nor are they even IN the game, and therefore are not "within the spirit of the worlds".

Or the head judge just made a big mistake and you are performing back flips to justify why they DQed that miniature.

Platuan4th wrote:
Umm... no. They(the head painting judge, IIRC) stated in WD last year(I think) that any model that resembles Feudal Japanese or Imperial Chinese eras would be disqualified in a Golden Daemon because GW has not laid down what a Cathayan or Nipponese soldier would look like and therefore they do not and can not fit into Warhammer imagery at the present. They expressly stated that doing so is entering a Chinese or Japanese miniature, NOT a Warhammer model, and would therefore would violate the rules of the Golden Daemon competitions.

So now head judge creates a rule in the year before just because he can and everyone should be aware about this? how?
Whats the rule he invented this year? let me guess, space dwarfs will be disqualified because "GW has not laid down what a space dwarf soldier would look like and therefore they do not and can not fit into Warhammer imagery at the present. "

Problem is there are old GW miniatures that cover lots of diferents themes i remember things like zoats, dominatrix, snakemen and the list goes on and on... so what head judge is actually saying is no back catalogue minis can enter because they are not "imagery at the present"
This is what i was saying before... how to be anal about rulling.

Platuan4th wrote:
Yes, it's a beautiful model and wonderfully converted. However, it does not conform to the rules of Golden Daemons competitions: "In addition, we will look at how well the model or models fit in with the published concept of our game backgrounds. That isn't to say that we won't reward innovation and creativity, but this must be demonstrated within the spirit of the worlds we present in our various games." Cathay and Nippon are not detailed in the background, nor are they even IN the game, and therefore are not "within the spirit of the worlds".

Corretion Cathay is mentioned on background there were old minis like posted on this thread, there are even present ogres based on cathay and so may i conclude that now we are analyzing the definitions of "detailed on the background" whats detailed in the first place for the judge? see how seriously this sounds like a sorry excuse for a big mistake ?

GW fluff is well knowed for covering lots of things that are not ingame directly but are a part of the universe so when i hear:

"They are not IN the game"
Like Dice Monkey said

If Games Workshop doesn't want some of its own material to be used in their competitions then they should declare that with the rules that get released online and in their magazine.

It probably falls under "judge's subjective opinion" (cannot be eliminated that simply) that should not have been randomly published.

NAVARRO wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:
Yes, it's a beautiful model and wonderfully converted. However, it does not conform to the rules of Golden Daemons competitions: "In addition, we will look at how well the model or models fit in with the published concept of our game backgrounds. That isn't to say that we won't reward innovation and creativity, but this must be demonstrated within the spirit of the worlds we present in our various games." Cathay and Nippon are not detailed in the background, nor are they even IN the game, and therefore are not "within the spirit of the worlds".

Corretion Cathay is mentioned on background there were old minis like posted on this thread, there are even present ogres based on cathay and so may i conclude that now we are analyzing the definitions of "detailed on the background" whats detailed in the first place for the judge? see how seriously this sounds like a sorry excuse for a big mistake ?

GW fluff is well knowed for covering lots of things that are not ingame directly but are a part of the universe so when i hear:

"They are not IN the game"
Like Dice Monkey said

Note I said not detailed, not not mentioned. Semantics, perhaps, but a notable difference. Yes, they're mentioned, yes they're on the maps. However, there is no detail about what an army or soldier from Cathay or Nippon are or look like. There are no army books to show us who/what they or allow us to play them(what I meant by in game). So, yes, they're part of the universe, but not part of the game(rules/armies). Again, semantics. Or rather the current game, as I am quite aware of the older models previously available for earlier editions.

The point of my post was that they have stated their reasons for this in the past and how they would react if it were to happen. Do I agree? No, especially as they had shown a STAFF Cathayan army several issues before this announcement. Should they have put it in the Golden Daemon rules? Probably, but they most likely assumed people would read the party line and think the rules covered established armies and the supporting fluff and most likely assume that everyone reads their ad magazine. It was simply to point out that since THEY have no idea apparently what direction they really want to take the appearance of these two nations(according to the article), they can't properly judge a "Cathayan" or "Nipponese" model because there ARE no current Cathayan or Nipponese models to compare them to. Disqualifying the model sucks, as it's a great model, but it's a historical model NOT a Warhammer model according to them. Which is funny considering Guard Regiments in the past.

I wonder if he would have had better luck if he strapped a lasgun on him and entered him into 40k single.

No, especially as they had shown a STAFF Cathayan army several issues before this announcement

Similarly, I wonder if a French/British WW1 soldier with lasgun would be accepted especially with the highly popular Dave Taylor Genswick army.

Yes its rather lame excuse because even if there isnt army books there are fluff books, I do wonder if i pick up a xenology creature that hasnt a army book and enter baltimore... would it get disqualified because it hasnt army book? Wait! a genestealer cult fig would get disqualified also? at this rate there are thousands of things not covered in a rulebook...

Thats like the man that has a florest and someone asks for a tree and he says go ahead take one... BUT only the thin ones, with rotten roots and with no twigs at all... are you sure i can take a tree?

This completly unjustified selective way of avaluating things, opens a rather weird precedent were a judge can open and close its eyes to what he feels like it.
Someone please disqualify that head judge

Oh well its their comp on their field with their minis so they can put up the show the way they feel like it.

albinoork wrote:maybe the judges gave the slayer award as a "make-up" call.

the judges decided the cathay model was DQ'd, but saw the error of their ways and decided to give it to the inquistor. same artist if i'm not mistaken.

just a thought.

take care

Ha, I lost interests in this tread as soon as I read that!