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Now that's a good compromise. I'd like to see what you've written so far.

I mean, my own book will have different Radical sub-sets for the three main Ordos because, unlike Jervis and Johnny-Boy, I like having loads of fluffy and powerful options within my rules - but I think that amalgamating them into a single 'Radical Ordo' section works quite well.

BYE

To go back to the earlier argument regarding how to make the unlocking system work and still allow the exceptional circumstances when 2 chambers militant might work together how about this system.

A basic inquisitorial list consisting of

HQ
0 - 1 Inquisitor Lord
0 - 5 Priests (no slot)

Elites
Inquisitor/Interrogator/whatever name you want to call him
Archo-flagellants (possibly fast)
0 - 1 Officio Assanorium Agent (requires an Inquisitor or Inquisitor Lord)
Death Cult Assassins (requires either inquisitor)
Some kind of generic improved storm trooper-esque troop

Troops
Stormtroopers

Fast Attack
Possibly archo-flagellants

Heavy support
Land Raiders - upgradeable
penitent engines

Then your inquisitor lord may take a seal of any of the following

seal of ordo malleus pure
seal of ordo malleus radical

seal of ordo hereticus pure
seal of ordo hereticus radical

seal of ordo xenos pure
seal of ordo xenos radical

The seal allows access to units and options from the appropriate ordo. The seal would actually be an icon that would be used in every unit entry so you can see at a quick glance whether or not you can use a unit.

This is exactly the locking system in that once you take a seal you cannot take another unit or option in the codex that bears a different seal/icon.

Grey Knight/Deathwatch/Sisters of Battle heroes would automatically be sealed and so couldn't work together or with an inquistor with another seal (although they could work with an unsealed inquisitor)

How you would get units from another ordo would be through the elite inquisitor option (the interrogator or whatever name was decided upon). He would have a special rule called "rival faction" or somesuch that would allow him to take a different seal and to take as an elite choice troops from a different ordo.

So at most you could have say 2 deathwatch kill teams supporting a hereticus pure force against a tyranid threat or 2 teams of sisters of battle helping the grey knights purge a world that has fallen into the grip of chaos.


On a secondary note I agree with HBMC's idea that being a radical should apply to more than just one elite choice.

So in the inquisitor section the inquisitor would have a standard set of wargear options i.e.

may take a storm bolter for +5pts

followed by

If the inquisitor has the seal of malleus radical he may replace his close combat with a
daemon weapon for +20pts

in addition he may take one of any of the following pyshcic powers

I am possessed by a daemon for +10 pts
this is an example of how it would work for +50pts

and it would let him buy different henchmen too


Such an approach can apply to all of the standard inquisitorial options in the codex. For example a xenos radical seal as well as allowing access to a standard mercenary xenos unit as an elite choice would allow death cult assassins to upgrade to represent say a small race of aliens being used as assassin agents by the inquisitor such as some eldar exodites or an unknown race. It would also allow the storm troopers to buy xenos hunting options, hell it could possibly allow archo-flagellants to upgrade to represent captured xenos beasts.

Finally I'm with the group that thinks that radical xenos is better presented by using smaller races without fully fledged armies. Whilst I can see fluffwise situations where using existing units from full fledged armies would make sense it creates a need for a lot of rules in the codex and it would look distinctly odd on the tabletop. Plus it would be a waste of a potential opportunity to finally get some models for some of the lesser known races. I'd love a set of captured anbul as a radical xenos upgrade for the death cultists for example. Alens from existing races should probably be restricted to henchmen roles such as water caste members as henchmen trying to negotiate the Imperium from making an attack by offering intelligence about a greater ork threat heading their way.

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:I am possessed by a daemon for +10 pts
this is an example of how it would work for +50pts

Best names for psychic powers ever!!!

BYE

Very, very rough ideas:

Wargear:
Daemon Weapon: 40 pts, S5 power weapon, +D6 attacks, take wound on roll of 1.

Psychic Focus: 25 points. May reroll 1 die on Psychic tests. Must use the rerolled value, even if worse.

Demiurge Graviton web: 30 pts. S6 AP4 Assault 1 Template. Units hit roll a D6. If the result is higher than their initiative value, they are pinned. A roll of 6 always fails. If the test is failed, test again at the beginning of each of the target's subsequent movement phases until it is passed.

Retinue:
Gain access to Penitent, Xenos, and Medium

Units:

Elite:
0-1 Daemonhosts

0-1 Rogue Psykers 75 points, 1-3 independent models / FOC
WS3 BS4 S3 T3 I5 A1 LD7 Sv4+Inv

Psyker. Laspistol, Force Weapon, Psychic Hood

Psychic Powers: Always have Translocation, Transmaterium and Channel. Each Rogue Psyker must choose one additional power from the Inquisitor list and pay the appropriate cost. Rogue Psykers may use two powers a turn.

Channel: Rogue Psykers can weave their energies together to create more devestating effects. During the shooting phase, a Rogue Psyker may Channel to another Rogue Psyker within 18" by successfully passing a Psychic Test. Up to two Rogue Psykers may channel to assist a single psychic test. Unless stated otherwise, Channeling allows the psyker to either increase the Strength of a psychic attack by 1 or modify the results of the psychic test by 1 (this cannot prevent Perils of the Warp.) This decision must be made before the test is rolled. For example, an Inquisitor Lord casting Bloodboil is being Channeled to by a single Rogue Psyker. The Inquistor Lord opts to increase the Strength of his power, then rolls an 11 for his Psychic Test. The power fails to go off, but if he had chosen to modify the psychic test, he could have reduced the roll to 10, passing the test.

Translocation: At the beginning of the movement phase, re-enter play via Deep Strike and make a Psychic Test. On any failure, you take a Perils of the Warp attack.

Transmaterium: With a blinding shriek of unreal energy, the enemy is ripped bodily into the Immaterium. Does not effect vehicles. This power is modified depending on the number of Rogue Psykers channeling it.

No Channellers: 18" range. On a successful Psychic Test, a single model in Line of Sight makes a Leadership test on its base Leadership -2 (ignoring Rites of Battle, increased leadership for sargeants in the unit, vox, Synapse, etc). If it fails, it is immediately removed as a casualty, regardless of wounds. Ignores all saves.

1 Channeller: Resolve as a small blast. All models underneath the blast marker make leadership tests as described above. Ignores all saves.

2 Channellers: Resolve as a large blast. All models underneath the blast marker make leadership tests as described above. Ignores all saves. In addition, any model underneath the center hole takes a S6 hit that ignores armor saves.

Troops:
Tainted - 7pts. 5-10/squad.

WS3 BS4 S3 T3 I3 A1 LD7 W1 Sv4+

Infiltrate.

Equipment:
Hellgun. Each model may replace a Hellgun with a Bolter or BP/CCW for +1pt. Up to two models may replace Hellgun with Meltagun or Flamer for +5 points, or Plasma Gun for +10 points, or may form a heavy weapons team with a Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, or Multimelta for +20 points.

Options:
One model may be upgraded to a Confessor for +10 points. A Confessor may carry a Flamer for +5 points or an Eviscerator for +10 points.

Transport: May be mounted in a Chimera or Rhino.

Entire unit may become Veterans for +5 points/model. Veterans gain +1 LD and gain choice of +1 WS, S, T, I, or A.

Special Rules:
On the Edge: Tainted are recruited from the remnants of platoons who have faced apocalyptic horror, and whose sanity and will is a fragile thing. Any unit which begins its turn 12" away from a Confessor, Tainted Commissar, or Inquisitor must take a leadership check. If failed, roll 1d6 on the following table:

1-2: Pinned. Leaderless and fearing for their lives, the unit goes to ground.

3-5: Fall Back. Unit falls back normally towards the nearest Confessor, Tainted Commissar or Inquisitor, or unit containing one of the above.

6: Reckless. Unit Moves and Runs as far as possible towards the closest non-vehicle enemy unit, is considered Fleet, and must charge if able.

Survivors: A unit of Tainted which voluntarily Goes to Ground may move 3" in the movement phase. They may not shoot or assault. Additionally, if a unit of Tainted passes through another unit of Tainted while Falling Back, make a morale check for both squads. If both succeed, the unit that was Falling Back joins the other unit. The original Falling Back unit is considered destroyed and cedes a KP to the enemy in scenarios that use kill points.

I like the ideas for the elites, but the the "Tainted" unit is too much like the Stormtroopers, good start. A generic Radical troop choice should be more... err... well radically different. I think something along a general sort of group of rogues or pirates would almost fit the bill; a group that does whatever it likes, I think something like the Last Chancers in the IG codex where they can pretty much take every option of wargear and have psykers and an incredibly flexible unit structure... just add daemon and xenos weapons and I think you've got something that would better fill the radical troop niche.