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ShumaGorath wrote:

Also, and the real key for me is that the leman russ will be a new kit. Almost all new kits are good in the new rulebooks. Look at the new WFB chaos, where the best lists use nothing but the new models. Look at marines with...okay I dont need to explain that one. GW will want to sell a lot, and if this rule is true it will add a lot to that

Yeah, because the thunderfire is amazing.

Just had to say, but I think the Thunderfire is a pretty good deal. You get a techmarine equipped, that normally cost 75pts, meaning the 4 blasts only cost you 25pts. It out ranges most other marine weapons and beats a frag missile. Its not uber, but its versatile. Only weakness is its lack of longevity. It might not be a unit you use every game but it has its niche.

IMO, the Thunderfire is poo. AV10 Artillery that eats a Heavy slot and isn't Scoring? No thanks.

nevermind the fact that it's AV10 direct-fire artillery with one crewman...

At least, the MotF hangs around with his Conversion Beamer.

But TFC? Expensive 1-shot wonder.

I would love to see somekind of 'digging in' rule where they get betyter cover qand shooting, oh and a commisar being able to choose to execute squad members to incrase fire like in DoW.

By the way, the guy who originally posted this is not a native English speaker, so doctrines was probably the only word that he could think of.

It's a bit of a wishlist item, but I think it would be cool for Imperial Guard to get an Imperial Guard version of Combat Squads, call it 'Platoons'.

The idea is that platoons are single units and fill slots on the Force Organization Chart, and squads/vehicles can be split off prior to the first turn.

It would help deal with the Kill Point imbalance that people are worried about.

JohnHwangDD wrote:IMO, the Thunderfire is poo. AV10 Artillery that eats a Heavy slot and isn't Scoring? No thanks.

Agamemnon2 wrote:nevermind the fact that it's AV10 direct-fire artillery with one crewman...

Its not the best choice but I don't think its bad. You're paying 25pts over an appropriately kitted Techmarine for 4 str6 blasts or str5 and ignore cover. You keep it in "bolster defensed" ruins behind a good enough buffer of troops and you don't have to worry too much.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

3 Leman Russes per HS slot. Leman Russes can now move and fire ALL their weapons (including the Battle Canon), regardless of their strength. It seems that GW wants to bring the Leman Russ to the foreground...

I'll believe it when I see it. Of course, all this will be for nought if they are a squadron of vehicles, making immobilised = destroyed results.

This I can believe, its is a gross overcompensation GW style. Leman Russ squadrons more Russ but immobilse kill. That would be fair. All IG sponsons are automatically defensive weapons, that would be fair, but fire all weapons, no that is not fair.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

-New doctrines, including one which provides +1 to cover and allows firing while going to ground.

I'm dubious at the inclusion of Doctrines at all, let alone ones not tied to Special Characters.

This is exactly what I suspect. If you get a role like this you will geta character to match.
e.g. Ibram Gaunt = cameleoline all round
Yarrick might make guard go to ground and fight, it makes sense allowijng for his Hang Tough modus operandi in battle.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

-New Plastic Command squad.

Stands to reason. Looking forward to seeing the options. Hopefully there will be a couple of plastic banners on there. Maybe even plastic Advisors.

Want.

-The plastic Valkyrie will cost 60€.

Ouch... well I said my Inquisitorial Storm Trooper army would ride in style. I guess it'll just be a really expensive kind of style.

€60 is not 50 Quid, but rather somewhere along the lines of 38-40 Quid, which is more than a Land Raider. 50 Quid is the price range of Battle Forces etc.

aka_mythos wrote:Its not the best choice but I don't think its bad. You're paying 25pts over an appropriately kitted Techmarine for 4 str6 blasts or str5 and ignore cover. You keep it in "bolster defensed" ruins behind a good enough buffer of troops and you don't have to worry too much.

Well, to be fair that's not exactly accurate, since the techmarine gunner can't really use all of the wargear he's paying for. By hanging back firing the cannon, he's forgoing the use of his servo-arm and power weapon, as well as the ability to repair vehicles and to stop a servitor squad mindlocking all the time. He's paying more than 25pts for that cannon, just in a different currency.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:Its not the best choice but I don't think its bad. You're paying 25pts over an appropriately kitted Techmarine for 4 str6 blasts or str5 and ignore cover. You keep it in "bolster defensed" ruins behind a good enough buffer of troops and you don't have to worry too much.

Well, to be fair that's not exactly accurate, since the techmarine gunner can't really use all of the wargear he's paying for. By hanging back firing the cannon, he's forgoing the use of his servo-arm and power weapon, as well as the ability to repair vehicles and to stop a servitor squad mindlocking all the time. He's paying more than 25pts for that cannon, just in a different currency.

Kinda like how half a lascannon devastator squad can end up useless as attacking models just because of the nature of the target fired at. There are limitations to all units.
First the Techmarine retains his servo harness, which means he still has the option of using it if the cannon is destroyed and he can still fire a single servo-harness gun and still fire the thunder fire.
Second if you do want the Techmarine to fire both of his harness weapons you can under the artillery rules include servitors as part of his unit and use one of them to fire the cannon while he does something else. Just by using them as part of the artillery crew by being in the same unit they automatically pass the mind-lock to no detriment to the Techmarine. This also means he can repair a near by vehicle while the cannon is fired by the servitor. I have never used techmarines to repair vehicles, mostly cause I don't field any, and if your techmarine ends up in close combat you've failed on account of poor defense of a non close combat artillery unit. Still, if you think a power weapon weapon loss is so bad for a unit you never want to have in close combat, we can say it was 35-40pts for 4 str6 shots.

When this unit was first introduced I thought it was terrible but after some use and after learning the different rules involved with it, I like it.

Uh, how do you include Servitors in a Thunderfire Cannon unit? The Techmarine does not benefit from the Independent Character and Blessing of the Omnissiah special rules unless his Thunderfire Cannon has been destroyed.

But back to Imperial Guard. Turning Heavy Mortars and those emplacement turrets into plastic (they already have plastic Earthshakers) would be very very cool.

Allowing Imperial Guard to take fortification assets like bunkers and whatnot would be also be cool - it would cut down on the model count while allowing the IG player to play very thematically. I can see Enginseers getting Bolster Defences, and allowing IG armies to 'unlock' options like melta guns and plasma guns.

BrookM wrote:€60 is not 50 Quid, but rather somewhere along the lines of 38-40 Quid, which is more than a Land Raider. 50 Quid is the price range of Battle Forces etc.

Before I wrote my post I checked the conversion rates 60euro is approx £47. today it is £47.1438 according to XE.com.

Call me a pessimist but I think GW will round the UK price up. Ok, £45 is possible, but £50 is likely. After £40 prices tend to go up in multiples of £10.

True enough, you do still get fire the single servo harness weapon shot and like I said I don't really use them to repair or close combat so those non-advantages aren't an issue for me. I'm just saying they have a niche while all the other stuff are details that don't come into play unless I've made big mistake. Just because the hate band wagon rolls through town doesn't mean everyone should jump on.

I think the basilisk kit will likely be redone with the earthshaker being put on a common sprue to any similar artillery weapons, due to the amount of redundancy you'd have between the different artillery models.

no matter how the new imperial guardsmen come out, theyll always be fresh meat for me

assault 2 24´ laser lanterns for free? if free IG gets a huge improvement over Eldar for the basic troops. Not nice I think.

M.

Screw that, Imperial Guard is all about spray and pray in large amounts. The idea of a platoon of guardsmen advancing with their guns blazing and jumping down into enemy lines after the fuselage has a nice image to it.


Still though, €60 for a Valkyrie is quite a lot, even when compared to the crap resin version of FW.

[quote=BrookM Still though, €60 for a Valkyrie is quite a lot, even when compared to the crap resin version of FW.

It would seem that BoLS has also caught a whiff of those rumours and decided to put them up.

I would believe the assault 2 ruling, but not at 24". Perhaps at 18", making them a poor mans shoota or dire avenger shurikan catapault.

True enough, you do still get fire the single servo harness weapon shot and like I said I don't really use them to repair or close combat so those non-advantages aren't an issue for me. I'm just saying they have a niche while all the other stuff are details that don't come into play unless I've made big mistake. Just because the hate band wagon rolls through town doesn't mean everyone should jump on.

It wasn't a hate bandwagon. He broke out the horse of new models being overpowered. I gave a counterexample of a bunch that were between bad and just ok. The thunderfire is just ok. Its pretty good for its points but it takes a precious heavy support choice and isn't likely to make it far into a battle.

BrookM wrote:€60 is not 50 Quid, but rather somewhere along the lines of 38-40 Quid, which is more than a Land Raider. 50 Quid is the price range of Battle Forces etc.

I'm trying to find out what the price would be in real (i.e. *American*) Dollars. You're saying that 60 EUR is more than a Land Raider ($60), but less than a Battleforce ($95). So that suggests the Valk will be something like $75 retail, $60 discounted.

How much do squad boxes, and Battleforces cost in EUR today?

Miguelsan wrote:assault 2 24´ laser lanterns for free? if free IG gets a huge improvement over Eldar for the basic troops. Not nice I think.

Yeah, it's much better. But nobody said it'd be free. I can see this costing +2ppm upgrade.

Battleforces are €80 and squad / regiment boxed sets are €30 mr. Wang.

Are there any rumors about plastic ogryns? $20 each is really ridiculous and the $30 Forgeworld renegade ones are even more so.

BrookM wrote:Battleforces are €80 and squad / regiment boxed sets are €30

At 60 EUR, then the Valk is twice the cost of a Squad box, or $70 USD. It's still more than the Land Raider, and perhaps only slightly more at $70. That's not so terrible.

JohnHwangDD wrote:It's still more than the Land Raider... not so terrible.

We need an emORKticon for 'incredulous' or 'disbelief'.

BYE

I second plastic Orgyns!!!! All in favor....

Ogryns were renewed not long ago, chances of GW going mad and making them plastic seems slim to nil, unless they pull one of those odd moves like they did with those awful metal possessed released during M5 and replaced with the slightly less horrible current plastic kit.

BrookM wrote:Ogryns were renewed not long ago, chances of GW going mad and making them plastic seems slim to nil, unless they pull one of those odd moves like they did with those awful metal possessed released during M5 and replaced with the slightly less horrible current plastic kit.

There wasn't a huge amount of time between the metal Possessed and the plastic Possessed. Sure, the horribleness of the metal Possessed did count as child abuse in some countries, so their speed in changing to plastic is certainly explainable, but it was still a small amount of time between two different releases for the same model (or type of model).

BYE

They released a metal Marine Scout with a missile launcher, and then a plastic kit of same within a couple months, IIRC.