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Joyous_Oblivion wrote:I'm not going to bash...much, but I expected something more here...

A head swap isn't all that difficult to pull off, especially with marines.

But then again, the Black Widows army was...bleh.

Damned if I do and Damned if I don't, eh?

Then don't. Please. For children.

Doctor Thunder wrote:Damned if I do and Damned if I don't, eh?

You make it sound like there are only those two options.

People objected to the Black Widows because they were just too over-the-top.
They're objecting to these (those who aren't simply firmly against female Marines in the first place) because they're just male Marines with a headswap.

The middle ground... with power armour converted to a slightly less bulky, more female look (but without the overstated breastplates) I think would be better received.

insaniak wrote:

Doctor Thunder wrote:Damned if I do and Damned if I don't, eh?

You make it sound like there are only those two options.

People objected to the Black Widows because they were just too over-the-top.
They're objecting to these (those who aren't simply firmly against female Marines in the first place) because they're just male Marines with a headswap.

The middle ground... with power armour converted to a slightly less bulky, more female look (but without the overstated breastplates) I think would be better received.

I think GW makes those. Sisters of Battle they're called?

=][= RulesViolation_Insult =][= if the only things that are being said are basically "put boobs on them" or "the WE heads look bad, try something different" then thats nothing good to say

and, like my gramps told me, if you don't have anything good to say(ideas for different heads, something else?) don't say anything at all.

it avoids things that should not be on a family-friendly forum like flaming and general rudness.

my two cents on the whole thread.

nice models by the way, i actually like the conversions, although i would sculp female heads or convert them from something like escher ganger heads.

GrandWarmasterPinto wrote: Sisters of Battle they're called?

Sisters of Battle are not Space Marines.

If you're making female Space Marines, putting them in Battle Sister armour would be wrong since it's completely different, both in style and in (fluff-wise) capabilities.

Well it wouldn't be wrong to use sisters as that is waht a female in power armour looks like.

You have no idea what a female space marine looks like style-wise because there aren't any (discounting the one horrible rogue trader chick) and as such you also can't argue the fluff as the fact that female space marines are anti-fluff as it is.

I'm not saying he can't do this project, just put some effort into it. Scuplting torpedo sized breasts on every figure is one end of the creepy spectrum, and the simple headswap is just lazy.

If you really want to do this, start modifying armour, make some greenstuff effort.

A space marine's power amrour is made for a man, 7-8 feet tall and bulky. A female een the same height would be radically different in body shape that having the same armour makes no sense.

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:Well it wouldn't be wrong to use sisters as that is waht a female in power armour looks like.

No, it's what a female in Sororitas Power Armour looks like.

Again, SoB armour is not the same as Space Marine Imperator Armour. It has a more basic construction and systems, to allow for the fact that battle sisters don't have the black carapace, and so can't interface with the complex systems that Marines use.

A female Space Marine, presumably, would have the same enhancements as her male counterparts, and would be using the same armour, simply tailored to a different body shape. Which Techmarines should certainly be able to manage, since they would have to modify and custom-fit the armour for regular Marines as well, to account for different heights and builds.


As an aside, we've had people in the past present SoB models as 'female Space Marine' proxies. They general reception to that has been that they look like SoB instead of Space Marines.

discounting the one horrible rogue trader chick)

Actually, there were two. But yes, they were horrible models.

and as such you also can't argue the fluff as the fact that female space marines are anti-fluff as it is.

The fluff is a starting point, not a strict absolute measure of all things acceptable. And is currently stalled. Anything that happens after the 'current' time period, or anything that happened in any one of the numerous 'black' periods where records were largely lost or never kept in the first place, is completely up to us.

I can come up with half a dozen explanations right off the top of my head for female Space Marines...
- mutation in the geneseed, allowing (or forcing) it to work with Female chromosones

- mutation by Chaos/planetary anomolies/blessing of the Emperor, turning the regular population of a given recruiting planet into Space Marine-like behemoths... just implant a black carapace and whamo, instant Space Marine

- specific experimental adaptation by a rogue Adeptus Mechanicus adept to increase the potential fighting pool... kind of works, but they only live a few months... Oh! The tragedy...

- the old 'Missing Legion' idea... they were possible all along with a specific geneseed created by the Emperor, but nobody knew about it as they had been missing since the Great Crusade...

- Recovery of an STC detailing advanced genetic modification procedures previously unknown to the Imperium

- There's this Chapter that appears at the battlefield, right? And they're women. And despite various enquiries by numerous Inquisitorial representitives, neither they, nor anybody else, seems to know where they come from...


That's just straight off the top of my head. And all, in my opinion, fitting in perfectly with established fluff.

A space marine's power amrour is made for a man, 7-8 feet tall and bulky. A female een the same height would be radically different in body shape that having the same armour makes no sense.

...and would be just as radically different from an un-modified Sister of Battle.

Or maybe Tzeentch decides to pull a presto-changeo on some SM stranded in the Warp, turning them from "outies" to "innies".

Exalt insaniak!

You have become my modeling spirit hero!

Malika2 wrote:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/159605

This. Get this man to get craft you some models. I don't like the heads but I think the project is awesome. I don't think I actually know of any other female heads that would work though. Maybe try looking elswhere PP has women in it's power armor (oh noes!).

Edit: Just though of something! You could get him to make you some differen't pieces then do a bunch of casts of the pieces and have a ton of awesome Space Marine Wurmenz "Hurr- em uh... heeerrr"

In all honesty, whatever the geneseed does to a human to make them a marine is probably not going to preserve much of a female's secondary sexual characteristics (read: boobs). After all, if you look at bodybuilder/weight lifters, the females don't look all that different from the males. Of course, this comes from the idea that a Space Marine is a giant musclebound maniac.

Orlanth's suggestion of suggesting feminity via alterations to the hips and legs of the model would probably be the most "realistic" way of going about things.

Otherwise, why not just sculpt slimmer, more "feminine" power armour? Headswapping won't work unless you use suitable heads, and SOB heads are probably more appropriate than WE heads...

My 2 cents.

Orlanth's suggestion of suggesting feminity via alterations to the hips and legs of the model would probably be the most "realistic" way of going about things.

Everyone suggests that, but no one notices when you do it. For my Black Widows, I widened the hips and narrowed the shoulders and even narrowed the waist, but no one ever noticed. It ends up just being a lot of wasted effort.

ZandrisIV wrote:

Otherwise, why not just sculpt slimmer, more "feminine" power armour?

Just sculpt a brand new model completely out of green stuff?

Are you kidding me?

If I could sculpt a model from scratch, don't you think I would have done that already?

Believe me, I've tried, and I've got a dozen failures in my bitz box. I think you guys are forgetting that it's easy to be idealistic when offering advice, but I have to work with the budget and skills that I have.

If I had my way, I would totally pay a sculptor to make a mini like the one Malika showed from CoolMiniorNot, but so far I have not been able to find anybody who could do it within a modest budget.

Girly marines would probably work better as a "true scale" project. Then the whole 7 foot tall thing becomes more noticable. Thats my thought

K

Pay no attention to the naysayers, brother DT - they be hatin'.

All of the fluff I've read on marines (and I've got all of the SM stuff going back to RT [just not BL, it doesn't count]) says that the implants are keyed to hormones, not to specific chromosomal expression. Even if it was, XY is just a 'broken' XX.

I'm hearing a lot of "they're your minis, do what you want - only DON'T do this or this or this, or that either.".



Some more variation with the heads/hair would help a lot with this
More nordic blonde and haughty for the Space Wolf Valkyr.
Emo fringe for the Dark Angel ("You don't understand my troubles")
Goth chick for the Raven Guard.
Bald and kinda creepy pale flesh for the Iron Hands chick (think 'borg' - 7of9 before she was deborged).

Keep it up.

I think it's an excellent idea, but you could make some huge improvements. Removing their clothing, for example.

Nice work Doctor Thunder. Good use of WFB bits on the Salamander. Looking forward to seeing these gals painted up. Will these models fit onto a scenic base?

Malika2 wrote:
Check out these:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/159605

Very Cool link Malika2 - Thanks!

I'm willing to say that if they were going to make women space marines the subjects would be altered to resemble men with a lot of their anatomy removed since they serve no use in war. That would cut down on all the time that would be wasted modifying armor.

I hate to be yet another hater. It seems like you've already got plenty of those.

Just...one thing that is seriously making my brain itch.

I'm not very...fluff-inclined, I guess you could say. But I was always under the understanding that Space Marines were at least partially cloned from the genetic material of the Emperor.

No Black Carapace and all of that aside, how in the hell do you clone a woman from a man?

Leave the lad alone.

If he want's to make female Space Marines, woopty doo. If you want to get all "Well, fluff-wise..." - you may want to click the big red X at the top right of your screen.

Keep it up, Thunder.

~sA

yea im sorry, the idea is a good one and all. i dont care if the fluff says there isnt female SM, the idea is cool. but if your going to make female SM IMO you have to make them look like women. those minis just look like SM men with slim and slender faces

Chrysaor686 wrote:
No Black Carapace and all of that aside, how in the hell do you clone a woman from a man?

I would guess the heavy hormonal and gene therapy helps. That and it all being totally made up.

I love the nerd rage even more than the 25mm bewbs.

FWIW I prefer looking at the pretty space wimminz to the bald screaming space menz. If I had my way, 40K would be all about the girl on girl action with less beefy man wrestling.

Seems a heck of alot easier to get an average gal into a game with kick ass women Buffy/Lara Croft/She-Ras then weird action figures fighting ugly things, too.

Chrysaor686 wrote:I was always under the understanding that Space Marines were at least partially cloned from the genetic material of the Emperor.

No Black Carapace and all of that aside, how in the hell do you clone a woman from a man?

If it helps, think of it this way:
The vast majority of our genetics are gender neutral. Of the 23 pairs, only the final one has any effect on gender. In the final pair women have XX and Men have XY. Since men have an X chromosome as well, which is what they pass onto their daughters, it is possible to take two X chromosomes from any man and create a female version of him.

For the love of god man! I keep checking the thread when it's got unread posts, but all I see are arguments over the merits of female marines! I DEMAND updated pictures! You hear me?!

first off girls have been in power armour since Rogue Trader. however these where not space marines.

that girl sculpt looks much to much like bubble gum crisis.

No such thing as much to much like Bubblegum Crisis.

Doctor Thunder wrote:

Orlanth's suggestion of suggesting feminity via alterations to the hips and legs of the model would probably be the most "realistic" way of going about things.

Everyone suggests that, but no one notices when you do it. For my Black Widows, I widened the hips and narrowed the shoulders and even narrowed the waist, but no one ever noticed. It ends up just being a lot of wasted effort.

Hmm, we do now!

The most feminie part of the thread so far is in your above reply.

"Honey I changed my armour and you didn't notice." *Sigh* "Men!" **THWAP**

The shield over the crotch in the second pic really doesn't work for me. It looks, well, glued-on.

Just like your Black Widows - love those models, but I hate the "fluff!"

...On another note, I gotta show my buddy who plays Warhammer Fantasy High Elves this picture. Your use of High Elf helmeted heads reinforces my constant taunting of his Elves as sissy "femmes!"

For the love of god man! I keep checking the thread when it's got unread posts, but all I see are arguments over the merits of female marines! I DEMAND updated pictures! You hear me?!

Working on it. Don't expect any pics for at least a week, though.

Orlanth wrote:

The most feminie part of the thread so far is in your above reply.

"Honey I changed my armour and you didn't notice." *Sigh* "Men!" **THWAP**

LOL

I never noticed that, but you're right.