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He did try but as there was only a few PK nobz it took a long time, besides i think you may be underestimating what even a few turns of necron rapid fire can do to orks.

You can have fun with TLOS and Monoliths. I saw a Necron player use his monoliths as a mobile wall hiding his warriors.

That tactic works quite well.

Necrons have the potential to be a strong(ish) list in 5th. The problem is there is really only one or two strong builds for them. Making a good necron army involves the following:

1. Select Deceiver + 20 Warriors.
2. Choose either 0, 1, or 2 Monoliths.
3. Fill rest of army with Destroyers/ H. Destroyers.
4. ???
5. Perform Mediocre!

Necrons are very (VERY) beatable. They have very few decent builds. They generally require a good player to perform well at tournaments.

Ork wrote:Necrons have the potential to be a strong(ish) list in 5th. The problem is there is really only one or two strong builds for them. Making a good necron army involves the following:

1. Select Deceiver + 20 Warriors.
2. Choose either 0, 1, or 2 Monoliths.
3. Fill rest of army with Destroyers/ H. Destroyers.
4. ???
5. Perform Mediocre!

Necrons are very (VERY) beatable. They have very few decent builds. They generally require a good player to perform well at tournaments.

Your post has the potential to be very contradictory and confusing!

Ork wrote:Necrons have the potential to be a strong(ish) list in 5th. The problem is there is really only one or two strong builds for them. Making a good necron army involves the following:

1. Select Deceiver + 20 Warriors.
2. Choose either 0, 1, or 2 Monoliths.
3. Fill rest of army with Destroyers/ H. Destroyers.
4. ???
5. Perform Mediocre!

Necrons are very (VERY) beatable. They have very few decent builds. They generally require a good player to perform well at tournaments.

I hate to criticize you but i feel thats a sweepign statement, as for the list its pretty terrible.

Why on earth would you want to deceiver over the nightbringer, and what about phase out?

The deceiver's abilities are much more useful then the Nightbringer's.

Whitedragon has a point Darth. Depending on what you want to do, the Deceiver CAN be a better choice.

From some of what I've been reading, Im not sure if you're misinterpreting a couple rules. Just to check.

1) Monoliths can fire a template or teleport a unit, not both in the same turn.
2) Monoliths only every move 6
3) Monoliths pull units from 18 inches and they emerge immediately from the monolith portal. They don't get to whip across the board. They can only pull 1 unit per turn.

Gauss weapons, how are you shredding vehicles with these?

1) They're shortranged for the most part
2) They need a 6 to trigger the gauss rule, and this just glances, with a -2 on the table, even if you roll a 6 you've merely immobilized the enemy tank.
3) If you're close enough to utilize these, you're going to get charged more often than not, unless its a destroyer.

With the combat res rules and getting run down in 5th edition, I can't see how you aren't getting creamed by those opponents, unless you're maybe playing a few necron rules wrong on accident.

Note: Im not by any means saying you're cheating. Im just saying from reading this I wonder if you maybe didn't misread some selections (mostly the monolith) and have it doing things it actually can't.

targetawg,

Yes i am aware of those rules, however me and my friends have only recently started 40k. Aside from our lack of experiance i do think there is an element of ignorance of Necrons.

I think we should make a battlereport, then you can anylise this better.

Could be fun to

Tau can beat necrons easy

get a bunch of hammerheads and sky ray gunships and poof! there go your monoliths.

And watch as the hammerhead only gets one shot and sky rays can only glance...

Hahaha tau cant beat necrons easy thats just dumb to think that. i would say they are fairly even.

This is painful. Necrons got it so hard in 5th edition, and now to be so ludicrously misunderstood...its a sad, sad thing.

Point: The Deceiver is murder made manifest. Anyone who's ever seriously played Necrons at the tournament scene won't even consider any other HQ. Particularly the NightBringer. Misdirect > Everything.

Point: While the Necrons have certainly been mangled by the rules changes, they can still thrash tau. Seriously, name one thing in the Tau codex that can outshoot Immortals at 24". I'll wait.

Point: I'm overreacting. I'll stop.

Tau have an easier time than most. They can focus oodles of fire power and up it to BS5 with marker lights. They have more str 10 shots than anyone.

A properly built tau army will cream a necron one every game, as they're one of the few armies that doesn't have to ignore the monolith, they can just shoot it down.

Also, they can put in tons of no save firepower (see big suit teams) that can shoot down a whole squad pretty easily in one volley.

Hammerheads may be one shot, but broadsides come in teams, each getting TL'd railguns, and 2+ saves, which as we said before, is a headache for crons to deal with.

Aidian watch as a nightbringer wrecks your hammerhead and moves onto the sky ray next turn, as the monlith deepstrikes with a deadly cargo of pariahs and a lord who start destroying your fire warriors.

Each army is equal, they each have there own styles.

I dont think aidan will change his mind, he's obviously just wants to say "Hahaha tau are best!" all day.

Xav wrote:Aidian watch as a nightbringer wrecks your hammerhead and moves onto the sky ray next turn, as the monlith deepstrikes with a deadly cargo of pariahs and a lord who start destroying your fire warriors.

Each army is equal, they each have there own styles.

I dont think aidan will change his mind, he's obviously just wants to say "Hahaha tau are best!" all day.

Nightbringer will not wreck a hammerhead unless the tau player is blind. Im not saying OMFG TAU ARE AWESOME or anything, just the nightbringer rarely if ever makes combat with anything, due to his 6 inch movement, especcially not a skimmer.

Second, lord and pariahs? Someone uses pariahs? They're rediculously overpriced, they aren't necrons so don't get WBB or count towards phase out, and they have 1 attack.

I'd love pariahs to go after my fire warriors, they'd kill a 100 point squad as a 500 point squad, then get rapid fired to death the next turn when they're standing in the open.

Pariahs = fail.

Necrons biggest strength is resilience to enemy shooting.
Their biggest weakness is in assault.
Tau's biggest strength is shooting.
Their biggest weakness is in assault.

Yeah, railguns can bring down monoliths. Big whoop.
Kill the warriors in melee and you'll get game over much faster.

Honestly, the Necron army's biggest strength is how poorly it is understood by most players, to which this thread is testament. If you're familiar with the codex pretty much any competitive army will trounce Necrons.

You just wait until necrons lose phase out.... THEN THEY WILL BE UNBEATABLE! Maybe.

Your chaos player needs to fast and flagellate himself for 1 week as penance for crying about necrons.

Xav wrote:Aidian watch as a nightbringer wrecks your hammerhead and moves onto the sky ray next turn, as the monlith deepstrikes with a deadly cargo of pariahs and a lord who start destroying your fire warriors.

Each army is equal, they each have there own styles.

I dont think aidan will change his mind, he's obviously just wants to say "Hahaha tau are best!" all day.

Well Said.

Ok maybe some other units or something comes out of the monalith but your missing my point completely, aidan was showing off tau's best units like suits, hammerheads etc, but didnt think of what the necrons could dish out, (maybe pariahs wont the best example).

I find that alot of people including myself, write a list, think of all the damage it can do and dont think of what your opponent could do back.

Cant a nightbringer charge 18"?

Nightbringer can move an assault or move and run i guess.

Your right, in general many people are ignorant of other armies, especially the Necrons.

As for aiden we shoudnt worry, he was only posting threads about making his first tau army a few days ago. He is just an over-excited 8 year old.

The necrons can be deadly. I agree that they are mostly misunderstood. However this applies to both view points those that think they are too strong and those that think they are too weak IMHO.

Examples

Phase out.

Necron players fear this and people are gunning to make the necrons phase out as it is often the easiest way to beat them. So many necron players overcompensate with too many warriors in large squads, effectively reducing points that could be used on more effective units. Warriors while good are very beatable in CC. You have just given your opponent a chance to kill more of your stuff with out increasing the amount of targets and they die the same in CC. Basically making you as easy or easier to phase out while weakening your army.

Variety

Necrons have a good amount of useful units. However most necron players tend to find a good unit and spam them, see above paragraph for the most typical example of this. This tends to make the army one dimensional and people think they are dull with few options. This also makes them a rock to some ones scissors. But when you are a rock ya gotta look over your shoulder for that pesky paper. Many necron units NEED to rely on other things to be effective, as over doing one unit type hinders some units from max effectiveness. This is often overlooked in list building and on the table.

Manoverability

The crons have one of the most manoverable armies in the entire game. In 5th edition missions you can win the game with 2 models if they are in the right place. Killing becomes secondary except in kill point missions. With wraiths, swarms, destroyers and heavy destroyers able to move 12 and turbo boost the necrons can cover ground fast. Monolith, swarms and flayed ones can deep strike allowing for cross fires and forcing your opponent to change his battle plans. Necron lord's and Monoliths ability to warp necrons around the board is the cherry on top. Add in running and you can be all over the place. Not to mention flayed ones can infiltrate and out flank. You only get this with a variety of units.

There is much more but these are the important ones IMHO that are often overlooked. I am not saying this is the only way but it is usually ignored in the necron trends. Yes things can stop it and yes they have their weakness, I understand that, but it is worth taking another look at the codex and trying out things that many people say are not worth it. They might surprise you.

Just my 2 cents...

There are obviously good necron players out there who can make the list work, win games and all that. But the initial post asks if necrons are unbeatable. They are not. They are generally considered to be a sub par list lacking in options which is massively hamstrung by giving itself an easy loss condition with no win condition.

Xav wrote:Ok maybe some other units or something comes out of the monalith but your missing my point completely, aidan was showing off tau's best units like suits, hammerheads etc, but didnt think of what the necrons could dish out, (maybe pariahs wont the best example).

I find that alot of people including myself, write a list, think of all the damage it can do and dont think of what your opponent could do back.

Cant a nightbringer charge 18"?

No.

The nightbringer moves 6 inches. He does not have the fleet rule. Therefore he moves 6 inches a turn, and can assault 6, if in range. With 5th edition, he can also run d6 inches in the shooting phase. However, you can NOT assault after running.

He's a slow poke.

Xav wrote:
Each army is equal, they each have there own styles.

You're claiming that large, complex disparate codexs with huge numbers of variables, some of which were even written before the latest version of the rulebook, written by fallible humans, under time pressures are equal?

That is incredibly lacking in basic common sense. You can argue that Necrons aren't relatively weak, fair enough, i disagree, but fair enough. However saying all armies are equal discredits everything else you say.

Have a think about it, do you really believe it, or are you touting the party line?

quozl wrote:

Xav wrote:
Each army is equal, they each have there own styles.

You're claiming that large, complex disparate codexs with huge numbers of variables, some of which were even written before the latest version of the rulebook, written by fallible humans, under time pressures are equal?

That is incredibly lacking in basic common sense. You can argue that Necrons aren't relatively weak, fair enough, i disagree, but fair enough. However saying all armies are equal discredits everything else you say.

Have a think about it, do you really believe it, or are you touting the party line?

ya i agree, army is never equal, in fact how strong they are , are based on :

1) newest army? you bet its strongest
2) GW flag ship army? you bet its right behind the new army.

Maybe its ignorant to claim that the armies are 100 percent equal, buts its fair enough to state that the armies are equal enough for the better player always to win the battle.

This thread originally started about a friend of mine whining about necrons being unbeatable, but soon switched to how terrible the necrons are.

I think we have found a happy medium.

I would say the better player would win the battle more often, but not always.
There's also an argument to be made that being a good player also includes picking the strongest possible lists and armies to play with- certainly, this is what happens at the higher end of the tournament scene a lot.