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The Philsonator wrote:I am THE metal messiah on this site, and everywhere i go. I know what i'm talking about dude.

Kind of presumptuous, isn't it?

Ah well. It was good for a laugh.

Ghetto_Fight wrote:Slayer and Opeth is where I draw the line with metal!!!!

I'd think that if you can handle Slayer, you could handle anything that Death Metal could throw at you.

If you're into Opeth, you might want to check out Cynic. If you're more into their acoustic side (I.E. Blackwater Park), maybe check out The Porcupine Tree.

Seether, they sound really american but are actually south african. surprised me. Also Thin Lizzy. Heven't been able to stop listening to Jailbreak for weeks.

I can't stop listening to Emerald by Thin Lizzy. That's epic.

And about listening to Slayer, you might not be able to listen to anything death metal throws at you, it took me ages to get into it.

And i don't listen to Slayer that much

Definitely Sex Pistols from UK.
Awesome.
I have to say The Explosion though. They're not foreign but they are my favorite band.

This is a link to their page. They are no longer together though.
http://jadetree.com/bands/artist/the_explosion
The best song is God Bless the S.O.S.

Lol, Sex Pistols only released one album.

Hehe Johnny Rotten though

Haven't heard of The Explosion, what are they?

Actually, there was more than one....

Rock and Roll Swindle was one of them. Trouble is, Never Mind The Bollocks was theonly one that was any good!

Chrysaor686 wrote:
It's not anyone's fault that you have to slap the word "core" onto every other metal genre these days (Metalcore, Deathcore, Thrashcore, Grindcore, Gorecore), that's just what everything's called. If you called it anything else, no one would really know what you were talking about. Don't listen to much metal these days, do you, Arctic_Firangi?

Heh. Watch your mouth.

I don't need to use the -core suffix because I can relate in various musical terms to the people I discuss it with. I don't mean to upset anyone (other than Philsonator) by kicking the word scene around. I listen to a damn lot of metal, and I hate most of it, 95% of the time due to the vocal style. The predominant vocal styles of 'grindcore' (extremely low/high screamers with little tonal variance) have become my preference, probably because it doesn't distract me from everything else so much. It's hard to play heavy music and maintain a solid feel with a whining songy punk crooning over it.

On the other hand, I think Tony Kakko is possibly one of the best vocalists I've ever heard, despite his overall crappiness.

Slayer: Judas Priest cover band that never quite learned to play properly. K. King is a douche.

Ok, relate in various musical terms what X genre is.

It's hard to discuss what stuff is unless you refer to it's actual genre name, otherwise people will have no idea what you're talking about, that's how it works whether you like it or not.

I don't slap 'scene' on everything you know, just on what is the more popular music, i like some 'scene' stuff, just not all of it. It's a shame because people never really give the underground stuff a chance, and instead worship what little they already know.

Tony Kakko is mad, he may sound exactly like Timo Kotipelto, but he's still mad. Overall crapiness? What does that mean? Are you banging on him because he's Finnish?

Slayer are mad too, just because you don't like them doesn't mean they suck, they are worshipped by many, are easily one of the best thrash metal bands in the world, and they defiantly influenced the heavier thrash and extreme metal.

Once again:

I AM THE METAL MESSIAH OF THIS SITE, AND MANY MORE SITES TO COME. I AM THE METAL MAN, I KNOW A HECK OF A LOT.

(I might have to make that my signature... lol)

At least make a good argument when arguing with me, you never know, you might make a good point, but not so far.

LOL the mods are watching this

Algebra is not a musical genre. unless you want to get into the imaginary fanboy realm of 'math metal'.

Tony Kakko has been one of my favourite musicians for a long time, and frankly I believe he sounds nothing like Koltipelto. Not even close. Finnish accent maybe. For crappiness refer to songs like 'Under Your Tree' - it's all brilliant, but can be difficult to listen to.

Slayer had some alright tranks around Diabolus / G.H.U.A, but they're still mostly rubbish IMO. In this case it's not even the vocals. They started off crap and have only ever been acceptable at best.

Phil, whether or not you think I've made a 'good point' is irrelevant. I initially thought you came across as a scene kid, but you've proven mostly otherwise. Your messianic claims are what lets down your credibility. I'm not arguing with you unless you'd like to make an argument about something, in which case I'll gladly take it up. Via the medium of PM, of course.

Lol.

About Slayer, they're just awesome, first two albums are the best, as soon as Reign came out, everything after sounded excactly the same, almost the quality, they're just around for a good time.

Thrash, Death, Power and the original Heavy metal are my most favourite genres.

Math metal... I hate it when people start getting technical, just a load of if you ask me, trying to be smart

I pity anybody who disrespects Slayer. PITY!!!

warpcrafter wrote:I pity anybody who disrespects Slayer. PITY!!!

I despise anybody who disrespects Slayer.



But seriously it's not cool to not like Slayer

The Philsonator wrote:Lol.

Math metal... I hate it when people start getting technical, just a load of if you ask me, trying to be smart

Sometimes its nice to listen to smart music. I find technical stuff interesting to listen to.

The Philsonator wrote:I despise anybody who disrespects Slayer.



But seriously it's not cool to not like Slayer

I respect Slayer for what they've done for music in general, but I hate their music. Can't stand it.

Muhammed Suicmez eats punks like Kerry King for breakfast.

The Philsonator wrote:Math metal... I hate it when people start getting technical, just a load of if you ask me, trying to be smart

Never taken music theory, have you?

Music is one big mathematical equasion. Look into it.

The Philsonator wrote:I AM THE METAL MESSIAH OF THIS SITE, AND MANY MORE SITES TO COME. I AM THE METAL MAN, I KNOW A HECK OF A LOT.

You know, it's not as funny the second time around...

good call chrysaor.

The Philsonator wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:I pity anybody who disrespects Slayer. PITY!!!

I despise anybody who disrespects Slayer.



But seriously it's not cool to not like Slayer

Agreed. It's only ever cool to say nothing, because you're too cool to care. If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go and play Metropolis.

No i didn't mean the music i mean the genres. People stary getting into dozens of subgenres when discussing certain bands and it gets really annoying when there are only a couple.

I like my metal prog, but not uber technical stuff like Meshuggah, Necrophagist and Brain Drill, they're just show offs, and the suck.

Chuck Schuldiner destroys Muhammed. Lots of debates of this on Youtube, but you'll see that Chuck wins every time.

The Philsonator wrote:I like my metal prog, but not uber technical stuff like Meshuggah, Necrophagist and Brain Drill, they're just show offs, and the suck.

Chuck Schuldiner destroys Muhammed. Lots of debates of this on Youtube, but you'll see that Chuck wins every time.

Meshuggah is a sad excuse for a progressive metal band. More often than not, they don't even go beyond three separate chords for the entire song, except for to deviate into some craptastic solos. Sorry Meshuggah, changing your time signatures mid-bar does not make you progressive.

I can understand not being a fan of Braindrill, as they're more Technical Grindcore than anything, and as with most Grindcore bands, their recording quality sucks something awful. Gotta give props to their drummer though, for being a part of The Faceless before they signed to Sumerian and their recording quality went down the drain as well.

As for Necrophagist...I don't even understand how any self-respecting Metal fan could think that Necrophagist sucks. Even putting them in the same league as Meshuggah? Shame on you.

Chuck Shuldiner might be able to rip some awesome solos, but then again I could name at least ten guitarists off the top of my head that could easily rip Shuldiner a new one. It's not all about skill. Shuldiner's compositions suck (basically generic Death Metal with some riffs ripped directly from Dallas Toller-Wade), and he can't even handle his own material live. Not nearly as well as Suicmez can, at any rate. And then throw in the fact that Muhammed Suicmez composes absolutely everything for Necrophagist (Not to mention that for the initial release of Onset of Putrefaction, he played everything as well), and the fact that Suicmez could easily play any crap that Shuldiner could throw at you if he really wanted to, and, well, he starts to pale in comparison.

Chrysaor686 wrote:

The Philsonator wrote:I like my metal prog, but not uber technical stuff like Meshuggah, Necrophagist and Brain Drill, they're just show offs, and the suck.

Chuck Schuldiner destroys Muhammed. Lots of debates of this on Youtube, but you'll see that Chuck wins every time.

Meshuggah is a sad excuse for a progressive metal band. More often than not, they don't even go beyond three separate chords for the entire song, except for to deviate into some craptastic solos. Sorry Meshuggah, changing your time signatures mid-bar does not make you progressive.

I can understand not being a fan of Braindrill, as they're more Technical Grindcore than anything, and as with most Grindcore bands, their recording quality sucks something awful. Gotta give props to their drummer though, for being a part of The Faceless before they signed to Sumerian and their recording quality went down the drain as well.

As for Necrophagist...I don't even understand how any self-respecting Metal fan could think that Necrophagist sucks. Even putting them in the same league as Meshuggah? Shame on you.

Chuck Shuldiner might be able to rip some awesome solos, but then again I could name at least ten guitarists off the top of my head that could easily rip Shuldiner a new one. It's not all about skill. Shuldiner's compositions suck (basically generic Death Metal with some riffs ripped directly from Dallas Toller-Wade), and he can't even handle his own material live. Not nearly as well as Suicmez can, at any rate. And then throw in the fact that Muhammed Suicmez composes absolutely everything for Necrophagist (Not to mention that for the initial release of Onset of Putrefaction, he played everything as well), and the fact that Suicmez could easily play any crap that Shuldiner could throw at you if he really wanted to, and, well, he starts to pale in comparison.

Yeah technical (death) metal NO:

Sure Cryptopsy, Decapitated and more are awesome but anything that doesn't have a standard beat is just annoying. I hate excessive blast beats, excessive bass solos and excessive shredding too.

Necrophagist are just way overated IMHO, and Muhammed plays like a robot, although props for him playing everything on Onset. Heck one man bands are pretty talented if you think about it, although crap like Burzum and a lot of grind bands just suck.

Sure Schuldiner's not the best guitarist in the world, but he is for me because i just love his style. Every riff (Usually the chorus riffs, Death's later works get hell boring in the verses) and solo they come up with usually turn out epic.

Death are easily in my top 10 favourite band of all time list, and just the best death metal band ever. I can't understand how people can like weird tech stuff better...

Schuldiner is one of my favourite guitarists, more for his style than his technical ability.

Id disagree that his compositions suck, but of course 'suck' is subjective so arguing what sucks & doesnt back & forth is a moot point. I wouldnt agree with him not being able to handle it live either, all the live videos Ive seen have been pretty tight. If you can point me to an example of him messing up live, Ill check it oot.

Muhammed Suicmez (peace be upon him ), is also one of my favourite guitarists, & I have to say, he slays chuck on technical ability & composition. I firmly believe that muhammed could play any of Chuck's work, but Chuck couldnt play much of Muhammed's.

But comparing these two is like comparing a modern rock guitarist to Jimi Hendrix. Most modern Death Metal guitarists *will* be more technically skilled than Chuck,
Chuck was great because he was an innovator who explored new styles, not because he was a virtuoso.

Without Death; we wouldn't have a Necrophagist to compare them to. Or if we did they'd be a very different band.

& Philosonator: Chuck wins youtube debates because he has more fans, not because Death is inherently 'better' than any other band.

Theres no problem with not liking a band, but just because you dont like them, doesn't mean they suck.

& has it ever occured to you that they might be writing complex music because they want to be musically challenged & stimulated, rather than show off? Not every famous guitarist has a rock-star complex, you know.

I'm not saying Necrophagist sucks (Did I? LOL) i'm just saying i don't know how anybody can get into the technical stuff. Incorporating unusual time signatures, and odd beats into music makes it unusual to listen to and harder to adapt to, and if you think about it, it makes you think they're doing it purely just to show off, or be different...

The Philsonator wrote:
Meshuggah, Necrophagist and Brain Drill, they're just show offs, and the suck.

.

you did say they suck. & is doing something to be different bad? Sometimes you want to listen to something thats more than just low E chug.

somecallmeJack wrote:Schuldiner is one of my favourite guitarists, more for his style than his technical ability.

Id disagree that his compositions suck, but of course 'suck' is subjective so arguing what sucks & doesnt back & forth is a moot point. I wouldnt agree with him not being able to handle it live either, all the live videos Ive seen have been pretty tight. If you can point me to an example of him messing up live, Ill check it oot.

I guess by 'suck', I meant that people have taken Chuck's art and perfected it to the point where I don't see much of a point in listening to Death anymore. And the Egyptian aesthetic found especially in his later work (though some will probably disagree with this) is easily topped by Dallas Toller-Wade, if that's really what I'm looking for.

I respect old Death Metal, perhaps more than anything, for changing the scope of music in it's entirety (especially Death, the oldest of them all) and allowing me to experience my favorite genre, which wouldn't be around without them. But just because I respect them doesn't mean that I have to love their music. Sure, Death easily tops most of the older Death Metal, like Cannibal Corpse and Napalm Death, and they're often cited as the originators of the genre, but they're really not at the top of my list for virtuosity. May Chuck rest in peace, though.

And as for Chuck not being able to handle his material, out of all of the live videos I've seen, his skill is a lot looser than he demonstrated in his studio recordings. Going to a Necrophagist concert, however, is much like stepping into a studio recording in and of itself. There is really little to no difference between what they sound like live from what they sound like in the studio. Sure, a lot of people will argue that you can't hold a band to this standard, but plenty of bands out there have proven that it can be done.

The Philsonator wrote:I'm not saying Necrophagist sucks (Did I? LOL) i'm just saying i don't know how anybody can get into the technical stuff. Incorporating unusual time signatures, and odd beats into music makes it unusual to listen to and harder to adapt to, and if you think about it, it makes you think they're doing it purely just to show off, or be different...

I actually used to be in your shoes a long time ago. I hated progressive and technical stuff just as much as the next guy, because it felt 'unusual', as you put it.

It took some gradual getting used to, through slightly progressive bands. I agree that jumping headfirst into some heavily technical stuff will make the average music listener go "what the hell?", due to all the strange progressions, notes seemingly 'thrown in' on top of the basic time signature, and time signature switches mid-bar.

Once you finally do get used to it (it takes a while), I find that technical and progressive metal are the most musically satisfying genres around (as long as they don't take it too far; music needs something solid to progress off of, or it just sounds like a jumble of noise. Extol is a great example of "too far"). Instead of listening to a song until it becomes "old and familiar", nearly every progressive song comes with something new every time you listen to it. It's like you can never quite see what's coming, and being able to focus on different aspects of the same song really keeps things from getting old. I find that technical progressive stuff isn't so much about showing off as it is about being aesthetically pleasing. If you really want to see some 'show-offs', go listen to some power metal.

Necrophagist is a perfect example of a Progressive Metal band that has found a perfect balance between technical extremity and basic progression. Muhammed realizes that he doesn't need to change time signatures every five seconds to keep the listener guessing, and he builds songs around a singular aesthetic, instead of being disparate and confusing. Listen to them more closely, and you'll probably notice how well all of the instruments complement each other (he even splits his vocals to match high points in his guitar playing, instead of going through the whole verse. Very interesting, if you're into that sort of thing).

Right now I'm really enjoying Scandinavian Music. Specifically:

Mayhem - Dawn of the Black Hearts (bootleg)
Gorgoroth - Pentagram
ABBA - More Gold
Europe - The Final Countdown
Pan Sonic - Resurrection River

I have eclectic tastes :-)

The Philsonator wrote:I'm not saying Necrophagist sucks (Did I? LOL) i'm just saying i don't know how anybody can get into the technical stuff. Incorporating unusual time signatures, and odd beats into music makes it unusual to listen to and harder to adapt to, and if you think about it, it makes you think they're doing it purely just to show off, or be different...

That's being overly conservative. I don't find odd signatures the least bit difficult to listen to. If you're already so firmly rooted in your tastes, then you're not in a position to criticise. It's like a person who doesn't like spicy food saying that hot curries taste like crap compared to mild ones. I'm sure if you try, you'll grow out of 'YAY I LISTEN TO METALS!!!' and actually develop a taste for the musicality. It's called 'progressive' styling - you can't argue it as 'trying to be different' when it's already in the broad genre of 'alternative music'. Are scientists and engineers 'showing off' by advancing technology? Art is a different animal, to be sure, but performers are already show-offs. They may as well be progressive while they're at it, because there's already plenty of good 4/4 riffage out there

Music that interests me generally surprises me (like clever examples of progressive music - id est NOT Dragonforce), or holds a nice series of grooves (Death's primary strength - they established the 'death groove' a lot more than the genre of 'death metal'). I find I can listen to the latter for a lot longer, but I love to find, and learn, new examples of the former.

I personally love the Hold Steady.

what?

I loves me some Midnight Oil

chaplaingrabthar wrote:I loves me some Midnight Oil

Peter Garret FTW! Love the Oils.

Ok, i think we should get back on topic, enough metal talk, the OP want's to unearth some bands they don't know of.

The Living End are awesome, and are easily one of the best Aussie bands of all time. Good punk band thas has a lots of 50s rock n roll in them.

MiSex. New Zealand newwave band from the 70's. Look up their vid 'Computer Games' on YouTube. I know the keyboardist, he's a great bloke.

The Philsonator wrote:

chaplaingrabthar wrote:I loves me some Midnight Oil

Peter Garret FTW! Love the Oils.

Yeah, how many other lead singers become government ministers