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a painter friend of mine has some lovely gray steel legion.... gray with some whites and reds.

face it, the nazis looked cool. but seriously, avoid flying flags you dont want to be flown. as long as its just the colors, your good.

but if you have a shaved head.... mabey dont paint them like that, or grow your hair out

Alright. A few quick questions to the OP.

Do you plan on drawing a mustache on yourself when you play your games? Are you going to dress formally with a red armband with swastika? Are you going to curse profusely in German and spit out anti-semetic ideas and blame the jews when you are losing the game? If that's the plan, I would say avoiding this project.

If none of these things above apply, then I believe you are clear side of the line that divides reality and fiction.

I think it sounds like a cool idea, and it could take some fun converting to get it done nicely. I have a friend who did something similar with a bunch of orcs.

In any case, making themed armies is fun if you have the time for it, and I think it'll look great.

To those who seem to be against this display of creative freedom: Do you actually, really know people that would take offense to some painted miniatures? Are people truly that naive? I can think of loads of more pressing matters to be offended by. ^^

In any case, good luck with the conversions et. al. and please keep us updated with some pictures when you get going.

your just not Ork enoff hur hur hur. Just weld some tires on the front of it and presto its done

Salad_Fingers wrote:
Though i am wondering how the hell you will get a rhino to end up looking like a Sd.Kfz. 251

Lots of plastic card I would assume. I have an image of what needs to be done in my mind, and when ever I finish the SMs I still need to build and paint. I will start work on the Rhinos, commit myself to the army before I change my mind, and hopefully the new Stormtrooper models will be out by then.

So....my Red Army Commisar led Conscript themed army is ok...even though their politics were the one in the same that led the world into a stand still where people were afraid to breathe due to the prospect of a nuclear weapon being dropped on their home town? Not to mention, more people lost their lives during the Cold War than all other wars combined if you count the brutal dictators that the US and Soviets backed to keep the expansion of the others political ideas at a halt.

So, by that logic any army based on anything from our real world should be heinously offensive and should be denied play on a table top. Don't forget the bricks that we should all carry in our backpacks to throw at those self righteous bastards on the other side of the table fielding such travesties...

Kej wrote:So....my Red Army Commisar led Conscript themed army is ok...even though their politics were the one in the same that led the world into a stand still where people were afraid to breathe due to the prospect of a nuclear weapon being dropped on their home town? Not to mention, more people lost their lives during the Cold War than all other wars combined if you count the brutal dictators that the US and Soviets backed to keep the expansion of the others political ideas at a halt.

No no no, you don't understand.

Hitler was evil in a way that no one else ever has been, or ever will be.

I mean, he killed - well, less people than Stalin - but he was racist too.

Well, actually Stalin was also racist, killing ethnic Poles, Koreans, and eventually hating Jews as well.

Hmm.

Kej wrote:So....my Red Army Commisar led Conscript themed army is ok...even though their politics were the one in the same that led the world into a stand still where people were afraid to breathe due to the prospect of a nuclear weapon being dropped on their home town? Not to mention, more people lost their lives during the Cold War than all other wars combined if you count the brutal dictators that the US and Soviets backed to keep the expansion of the others political ideas at a halt.

So, by that logic any army based on anything from our real world should be heinously offensive and should be denied play on a table top. Don't forget the bricks that we should all carry in our backpacks to throw at those self righteous bastards on the other side of the table fielding such travesties...

are you trolling or you really cant see the difference between Hitler and Stalin?

ok personally, i think the OP is full of BULL SH*T. no pics. so we really dont need to keep talking about this if the OP is full of BULL SH*T.

enmitee wrote:ok personally, i think the OP is full of BULL SH*T. no pics. so we really dont need to keep talking about this if the OP is full of BULL SH*T.

How am I full of BS if I said that i was thinking of creating an SS/Gestapo themed army, not making but thinking of making, eventually.

Or was that a joke?

no im saying why are people ranting about it if you probably arent gona post jack in the first place.

EDIT: anyone can say, "oh im gona make some army based on something very controversial to people" just to press on people's button without having the crap to show for it.

I do not see the issue with this army at all, nor do i see an issue with Swastikas, Iron Crosses, or any other obviously Nazi iconography. Hell, throw some SS lightning bolts on the helmets. If you do it, you do it all, 'nuff said. It is the iconography of the army, it wouldn't be complete without it.

It is a very sound theme for ANY imperial army, perhaps not SM, but any other imperial army would work with this.

It is the same as using the Red Army as a basis for an army. As it was said before, face it, they looked cool. No one can deny that there is a very efficient and powerful looking, let alone acting, army. Nothing wrong with trying to convey that onto the table. Just don't go dressing like hitler and you'll be all good.

(just a side note: Hitler may have been a fething ass, but stalin was worse. Stalin killed such a staggering number of people, HIS OWN people. Both should enjoy the pinapples they are getting up their asses in hell right now)

People play historical war games as well, and they have models that actually look like Nazi's to begin with. So what is the issue with making an IG army look like the SS? Simple fact, there isn't.

And if you take offense, well, sorry but you don't have the right to not be offended. Just ignore the thread, and get on with your lives.

I think this is a great idea.

For sure go on with it

or while this is not a truly reliably source the facts and figures are

http://eddywu.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/top-mass-murderers-in-history/

to be perfectly honest I understand the importance of respecting the victims of the holocaust and understanding the vileness of the crimes of the NAZI regime but...

as one of the brains behind this army there "will be NO swastikas" insignia will strictly be the and the Aquila" the camouflage will be oak fall and there will be characters in trench coats If this army even gets built...

If you dislike the design because it is similar to the SS and the Gestapo I am sorry, I truly am... however we had agreed at the beginning that NAZI iconography and symbols should be left out though the liveliness of this tread had made us joke about putting the double s simply to spite those that actually look that closely at the model

Its the whole possibility that I may create an Army based off of evil people and bring it into their game which in no way has any coloration with things that have happened in the past. Nope nothing in this game is based of off something taken from real life. They also presume that because I want to make this army that I am some sort of Neo-Nazi.

As for pictures, I will most likely be starting work on the creation of the Rhino Sdf Kfz 251 this weekend.

well the problem is...

when you have a thread worth 3 pages long,
-no pics of painted mini
-no pic of anything period
-army based on sensitive issue

= you get yourself this.

Cant really blame the people to react this way.

LunaHound wrote:well the problem is...

when you have a thread worth 3 pages long,
-no pics of painted mini
-no pic of anything period
-army based on sensitive issue

= you get yourself this.

Cant really blame the people to react this way.

this is my point. thank you luna hound.

LunaHound wrote:well the problem is...

when you have a thread worth 3 pages long,
-no pics of painted mini
-no pic of anything period
-army based on sensitive issue

= you get yourself this.

Cant really blame the people to react this way.

Well excuse me for thinking I could come to a web site for hobbyists of the game and post an idea i had for an Army and post it hoping to get figure out what people would think of the idea and hopefully get some suggestions or something. As well a have a foundation ready for when I actually have pictures of the army.

HAHAHA

and your getting what "hobbyist" think so far.

BrotherStynier wrote:

LunaHound wrote:well the problem is...

when you have a thread worth 3 pages long,
-no pics of painted mini
-no pic of anything period
-army based on sensitive issue

= you get yourself this.

Cant really blame the people to react this way.

Well excuse me for thinking I could come to a web site for hobbyists of the game and post an idea i had for an Army and post it hoping to get figure out what people would think of the idea and hopefully get some suggestions or something. As well a have a foundation ready for when I actually have pictures of the army.

er im not offended or anything, just pointing out the truth.

and you are hoping to figure out what people think about the idea....
well this thread already expressed much about what they think....

and here is my personal opinion... ImO nazi is thing in the past , it doesnt bother me.
But there are people around that has family effected by Nazis...
the real question here now is

" even though you dont care, most of us dont care, do you have the compassion
and respect for those that DOES care? "

This topic is new and interesting.

WaaaaghLord wrote:people play SS armies in historical games dont they? i fail to see the difference

Really? You don't understand the difference between fiction and history?

Ahtman wrote:This topic is new and interesting.

WaaaaghLord wrote:people play SS armies in historical games dont they? i fail to see the difference

Really? You don't understand the difference between fiction and history?

*shrug maybe op should figure it out himself first hand.
he can march into veterans day in a nazi uniform and see what hppens.

bad taste? insensitive? crazy?

i dunno

Yes I do have the respect for those that are affected, that's why I'm not putting Swastikas on every thing and SS lightning bolts on the collars of all the Stormtroopers.

I am not doing this to offend people, nor am I doing it because I am a neo-nazi or anything like that. I'm doing it because I think the Witch Hunters reflect the SS and Gestapo quite nicely, and think that they would make a great theme for them.

If anything this project will be paying homage to WWII modeling where I started after seeing my dad build WWII models my whole childhood, in a way its bringing me full circle in the world of modeling.

BrotherStynier wrote:Yes I do have the respect for those that are affected, that's why I'm not putting Swastikas on every thing and SS lightning bolts on the collars of all the Stormtroopers.

I am not doing this to offend people, nor am I doing it because I am a neo-nazi or anything like that. I'm doing it because I think the Witch Hunters reflect the SS and Gestapo quite nicely, and think that they would make a great theme for them.

If anything this project will be paying homage to WWII modeling where I started after seeing my dad build WWII models my whole childhood, in a way its bringing me full circle in the world of modeling.

i believe your intentions are innocent. but thats irrelevant imo. if you play with friends only, its fine.
but if you bring that in public, result might not be pleasant.

im just expressing my thoughts on what other's might think
when they see it.

dunno , hard to say without pics

*shrug maybe op should figure it out himself first hand.
he can march into veterans day in a nazi uniform and see what hppens.

bad taste? insensitive? crazy?

i dunno

I find that funny because some friends of mine once did a parade where they were wearing German uniforms because the American ones were too dirty... so said the parade organizers (a few had American jackets but the Vets agreed that it was the spirit of the march so they went I would have but finals were taking my time)

Also we once went through a drive through in a kublewagen with SS uniforms asking about the "Apple Jews"...The joke was understood on all sides especially by the a Jewish acquaintance of mine who dressed up in the SS regalia as well.

I prefer to believe that it is the spirit of the action and the intent behind it rather than the actions appearance...

DemolitionMonk wrote:

*shrug maybe op should figure it out himself first hand.
he can march into veterans day in a nazi uniform and see what hppens.

bad taste? insensitive? crazy?

i dunno

I find that funny because some friends of mine once did a parade where they were wearing German uniforms because the American ones were too dirty... so said the parade organizers (a few had American jackets but the Vets agreed that it was the spirit of the march so they went I would have but finals were taking my time)

Also we once went through a drive through in a kublewagen with SS uniforms asking about the "Apple Jews"...The joke was understood on all sides especially by the a Jewish acquaintance of mine who dressed up in the SS regalia as well.

I prefer to believe that it is the spirit of the action and the intent behind it rather than the actions appearance...

k, please excuse me and the others that are against it to be overly paranoid.

LunaHound wrote:

DemolitionMonk wrote:

*shrug maybe op should figure it out himself first hand.
he can march into veterans day in a nazi uniform and see what hppens.

bad taste? insensitive? crazy?

i dunno

I find that funny because some friends of mine once did a parade where they were wearing German uniforms because the American ones were too dirty... so said the parade organizers (a few had American jackets but the Vets agreed that it was the spirit of the march so they went I would have but finals were taking my time)

Also we once went through a drive through in a kublewagen with SS uniforms asking about the "Apple Jews"...The joke was understood on all sides especially by the a Jewish acquaintance of mine who dressed up in the SS regalia as well.

I prefer to believe that it is the spirit of the action and the intent behind it rather than the actions appearance...

k, please excuse me and the others that are against it to be overly paranoid.

no problem, to be honest I was scared beyond belief when we actualy got to the window at the drive-in Oh and I think there might be some prototypes up tomorrow evening

LunaHound wrote:

*shrug maybe op should figure it out himself first hand.
he can march into veterans day in a nazi uniform and see what hppens.

bad taste? insensitive? crazy?

i dunno

I am fairly certain my dear Sir that I do know the difference first hand, as a former member of the military(medically discharged looking to get back in).

LunaHound wrote:

i believe your intentions are innocent. but thats irrelevant imo. if you play with friends only, its fine.
but if you bring that in public, result might not be pleasant.

im just expressing my thoughts on what other's might think
when they see it.

dunno , hard to say without pics

With pictures I am sure that people will assume the same thing they have this whole time which is fine, knowing that most people would view it as Pro Nazi and insensitive is fine that's their opinion. I want to make this army fictional yes, but I want it to bear a semi realistic feel to it, so if I make a Leman Russ you can bet your ass that I will consider greenstuffing a flag over its engine compartment that is red and white with a black emblem of the Inquisition in the center.

This weekend I will bring up this idea with my local GW who I am sure will not care, they are more interested in getting me to play games there than turning me away. IF they do care than thats fine I still have my Space Marines, which are not Nazi themed and will eventually have their own thread here complete with pictures .

DemolitionMonk wrote:no problem, to be honest I was scared beyond belief when we actualy got to the window at the drive-in Oh and I think there might be some prototypes up tomorrow evening

i didnt mean that as an apology.


*edit.

im out, not getting anymore involved in this.

hope OP already seen enough reactions hence fulfilling the purpose of this thread.
myself have no right to be lecturing about sensitivity.

Isn't the entire Imperium of man fluff a mangled parody of all the worst parts of right wing twentieth century politics, with the worst parts of medieval religious zealotry, superimposed into a futuristic setting, with psykers and mutants replacing the real heretics of earths past, and aliens replacing the ethnic minorites?

The whole setting is full of talk about racial purity and dodgy ideas that would seem to legitimise eugenics if you took them seriously. Then there's religious crusades, purges and just about everything else short of actually putting death camps in there.

Modelling witch hunters as nazis seems entirely appropriate to me, as if you really objected to that sort of stuff, you'd have never set foot in a games workshop store again after the first time you opened a rule book.