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I think you should ignore the crying over overly sensitive people that need to grasp the real world and do it! Its a great idea for Inquis and I for one would like to see it.

Also, a swastika is NOT a bad symbol, it is taken from a HOLY CHURCH, get over it.

Gabe wrote:I say go for it, depending on how open your local group is.

Around here, we have a space marine player that painted all of his marines german grey, and put iron crosses and swastikas on every marine/vehicle. Guess what? Noone has been offended yet. He was a marine, and now works for one of the local fire departments - he is a patriot, and simply thinks the german theme looks cool on his marines.

Nabbing colours etc is ok but swastikas are taking it a bit to far don't you think?

Long as op just wants the scheme and not the paraphernalia associated with Nazism go for it

Edit: Yes the swastika isnt a bad symbol- its originally hindu I think? But I see your american would you like it if a tallarn terrorist themed army was fielded?

Coming from Northern Ireland with a teeny history of terrorism most people would get annoyed (and rightfully so) at a terrorist themed army. Doesnt cost you much to be considerate of others. If I recall correctly your not even allowed to use Green White and Gold or Red White and Blue even if its just for fun.

Just paint the swastika the original way, before it was flipped. It means good luck.

Velsharoon wrote:

Nabbing colours etc is ok but swastikas are taking it a bit to far don't you think?

Long as op just wants the scheme and not the paraphernalia associated with Nazism go for it

Edit: Yes the swastika isnt a bad symbol- its originally hindu I think? But I see your american would you like it if a tallarn terrorist themed army was fielded?

Coming from Northern Ireland with a teeny history of terrorism most people would get annoyed (and rightfully so) at a terrorist themed army. Doesnt cost you much to be considerate of others. If I recall correctly your not even allowed to use Green White and Gold or Red White and Blue even if its just for fun.

My friend painted, albeit a very poorly painted, Tallarn Army in Hamas colors and no one raised a stink at my local friendly gaming store.

I wonder how many posts this thread will get before it's locked?

aunshova wrote:Just paint the swastika the original way, before it was flipped. It means good luck.

If the OP follows this advice, you better hand him a stab vest at the same time. I'm almost 100% certain that 95% of people will see a Swastika first, and the fact that you did a little "thing" with the symbol to make it more Politically Correct a very distant second.

I think the OP needs to seriously consider his own motives for wanting to go down this road (not saying its bad!) because alot of people are most certainly going to have an emotive opinion/response towards you and your art-work one way or another! The local Neo-Nazi player at your local gaming store will think he's instantly found a friend and confidant! but the Jewsih guy who also plays there and lost great grand parents to the Holocaust will probably want to stuff your head where the sun don't shine (and no, I don't mean London!)

As long as the OP is mature enough to deal with these reactions, then yeah go for it! If not....then think twice!

Antonin wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:Exactly.

It's your army, you can do what you like.

But if I were the Owner or TO, you wouldn't be playing something offensive like that in my store or in my tournament. That's because it'd be my store and my tournament, and the world doesn't revolve around you.

Why? Would you exclude all Flames of War games also?

Flames is a historical game. If the German player is playing a historical unit, then that's fine.

If he's using Flames as an excuse to play up anti-Semitic themes because they're loosely-tied to the historical era and force, that's a completely different thing, and I'd kick him out.

For example, if he were playing an Early War force, then a Nazi flag draped over a command tank for aerial IFF purposes is OK. If he were playing Late War with giant Nazi flag standards being displayed prominently, then no, that's not historical, and he can go pound sand.
____

WaaaaghLord wrote:people play SS armies in historical games dont they? i fail to see the difference

The key word would be "historical".

If they did actual research on the Waffen SS, and used that actual historical unit as the basis for their army, then that's fine and appropriate.

If someone wants to play closet Nazi, do so. Just don't bring it to the tabletop.

The best solution is to do what ever you want with your army.

When it comes to taking it places however, it's best to clear it with the other people at your flgs.

Why take the risk though? It isn't like a good flgs is around every corner and easily replacable. There AREN"T any flgs's within an hour of where I go to school, probably not even within 2. Invocation of symbology over it's historical significance will always be taken as support or agreement. Slightly changing something to be technically different simply to have an arguing point against people who will be (justifiably) offended is sociopathic.

If I decide to make a witchhunters army out Mordheim Possessed with Necromunda Redemptionists, but paint all their uniforms and hoods white, you'd better believe I'm going to get banned from any sensible flgs. Whether I decide to actually use KKK symbology or not is a pointless technicality.


(edit:you can see the relevance because I'm from Louisiana. If you were to do an army resembling a Nazi force in Europe, you should consider moving.)

I have relatives and friends who sufferd in the German deathcamps... but as long as you dont yell Heil Hitler every 2 seconds i could not care less...

I think the style and feel fits exactly with the feel of the inquisition so you should do what you like just expect sensitive people to be offended and think hard iff thats worth it to you...

Not this thread AGAIN.

Railguns wrote:Why take the risk though? It isn't like a good flgs is around every corner and easily replacable. There AREN"T any flgs's within an hour of where I go to school, probably not even within 2. Invocation of symbology over it's historical significance will always be taken as support or agreement. Slightly changing something to be technically different simply to have an arguing point against people who will be (justifiably) offended is sociopathic.

If I decide to make a witchhunters army out Mordheim Possessed with Necromunda Redemptionists, but paint all their uniforms and hoods white, you'd better believe I'm going to get banned from any sensible flgs. Whether I decide to actually use KKK symbology or not is a pointless technicality.


(edit:you can see the relevance because I'm from Louisiana. If you were to do an army resembling a Nazi force in Europe, you should consider moving.)

1. Its not justified to be offended by his army, it just shows how misinformed you are.

2. The KKK (Like Hitler did with the Swas) stole there uniform from a CHURCH, why do people insist on ignoring everything good about symbols because one person/Group changed the meaning for them selves?

Many years ago at a historical miniature convention, (Cold Wars), one group was reenacting Battle of Arnheim bridge. This pitted the SS vs British paras. At the begining of the game British players were given red berets, SS was given Nazi insignia caps to wear.

This caused quite a stir as many were offended by the representation of the Nazi regalia. Hence all forms of this type wear was prohibited. This was historical and wasn't appreciated, I don't think it would in 40K

RB wrote:Many years ago at a historical miniature convention, (Cold Wars), one group was reenacting Battle of Arnheim bridge. This pitted the SS vs British paras. At the begining of the game British players were given red berets, SS was given Nazi insignia caps to wear.

This caused quite a stir as many were offended by the representation of the Nazi regalia. Hence all forms of this type wear was prohibited. This was historical and wasn't appreciated, I don't think it would in 40K

This proves my point that today's world is a filled with overly sensitive twits that need to get over then selves.

Every one has a right to model and paint there little army men any way they wish, no one has any right to tell them they can't do one thing or another.

I'm not saying that usage of symbolism is inherently BAD. I'm saying that there is due cause to consider how your portrayal will sit with others. Yes, I know where the KKK came from; I've read about their origins and how they became the organization that they are. But I am also aware that it is likely to get me ostracized socially If I go around trying to argue to people why a KKK army is okay and they are just twits for being offended. It's sociopathic.

And symbols evolve with the societies that use them. That is the entire point of a symbol; to invoke feelings and ideas that are associated with it. Actions speak louder than words and last much longer in our collective memory. It doesn't matter what a symbol originally meant hundreds of years ago or decades ago or what have you. If a terrorist organization decided that they wanted to use the Mcdonalds Golden Arches as some sort of ironic symbol of their expoits and then subsequently bombed hundreds of hospitals and churches in a western country then people will associate the golden arches with it, regardless of the fact that millions of little hamburgers were sold under them. Arguing that people need to ignore the new meaning in place of the old one is almost insane and in defiance of reality.

I hate to agree with JHDD but really, think about it before you do it. There are other people in the world besides yourself. The gaming table is not a place for arguing philosophical or political distinctions.

Velsharoon wrote:

Gabe wrote:I say go for it, depending on how open your local group is.

Around here, we have a space marine player that painted all of his marines german grey, and put iron crosses and swastikas on every marine/vehicle. Guess what? Noone has been offended yet. He was a marine, and now works for one of the local fire departments - he is a patriot, and simply thinks the german theme looks cool on his marines.

Nabbing colours etc is ok but swastikas are taking it a bit to far don't you think?

Long as op just wants the scheme and not the paraphernalia associated with Nazism go for it

Edit: Yes the swastika isnt a bad symbol- its originally hindu I think? But I see your american would you like it if a tallarn terrorist themed army was fielded?

Coming from Northern Ireland with a teeny history of terrorism most people would get annoyed (and rightfully so) at a terrorist themed army. Doesnt cost you much to be considerate of others. If I recall correctly your not even allowed to use Green White and Gold or Red White and Blue even if its just for fun.

I wouldn't care if someone painted up an army with an islamic terrorist theme. If the person had a bomb strapped to themselves and they were yelling "Allahu Akbar!" I might have a problem, but otherwise... they're just miniatures.

People are overly sensitive these days....

Really - lets admit it. Though nazis had some awful (not to mention misled) beliefs, they had everything going for them looks wise. Why do you think Hitler gave the most power to his propagandists? So they could make the most striking uniforms and emblems, to convey a symbol of power.

really, America should stop singling out and shunning anything semi controversial while not giving a sh-t about real issues like poverty. I guess abortion and gay rights are more important then people dying in the streets.

Anyway, sorry about my soapbox.

if you do run into trouble, just do what WW2 video games do when they are sold in Germany - just take out the swastikas.

Hey I never said they didn't look sharp.
It isn't just Americans who don't like it, its just about anyone. Also, the discussion wasn't about other issues. I appreciate your stance, but we weren't singling out anything here, we are discussing one topic.

For the record, one of my former professors was German. Once he wandered into the topic and spent about 15 minutes absolutely lambasting the Nazi's and Hitler. I don't think there is any question how some people feel about it and whether those feelings are justified.

Really - lets admit it. Though nazis had some awful (not to mention misled) beliefs, they had everything going for them looks wise. Why do you think Hitler gave the most power to his propagandists? So they could make the most striking uniforms and emblems, to convey a symbol of power.

Yep - LOL - people xenophobic attitudes are coming out against the German WWII guy!

The uniforms are cool, look sharp, make a good looking army and would no doubt be fun to play.

I would even call them something like "Space Naziis from Echelon VII" - in memory of the B grade science fiction movies of yesteryear.

Really, if you are heavily offended by paint on little plastic men, you need to get out more.

Gabe wrote:

Velsharoon wrote:

Gabe wrote:I say go for it, depending on how open your local group is.

Around here, we have a space marine player that painted all of his marines german grey, and put iron crosses and swastikas on every marine/vehicle. Guess what? Noone has been offended yet. He was a marine, and now works for one of the local fire departments - he is a patriot, and simply thinks the german theme looks cool on his marines.

Nabbing colours etc is ok but swastikas are taking it a bit to far don't you think?

Long as op just wants the scheme and not the paraphernalia associated with Nazism go for it

Edit: Yes the swastika isnt a bad symbol- its originally hindu I think? But I see your american would you like it if a tallarn terrorist themed army was fielded?

Coming from Northern Ireland with a teeny history of terrorism most people would get annoyed (and rightfully so) at a terrorist themed army. Doesnt cost you much to be considerate of others. If I recall correctly your not even allowed to use Green White and Gold or Red White and Blue even if its just for fun.

I wouldn't care if someone painted up an army with an islamic terrorist theme. If the person had a bomb strapped to themselves and they were yelling "Allahu Akbar!" I might have a problem, but otherwise... they're just miniatures.

People are overly sensitive these days....

Nuts...there goes my ideas for Tallarn Demo Charge Models...

LOOK TURTLE PIE!

You know, if the OP had said that they wanted to do a WH stormtrooper army using DKOK and painted in german army grey circa 1938-1944, no one would have started telling him not to do it.

To the OP: if you want to use this army in tourneys and store games, be very careful about your color schemes and what you represent. You can be asked to leave and told to not bring your army back. Personally, If I owned a store, I would be more inclined to tell players with unpainted armies to leave and not to bring them out until they are painted...or better still, I wouldn't ask them to leave, but I would award players with fully painted armies with discount cards.

If you aren't worried about "official" games and tourneys, I would look at the WW2 figs from Artizan Designs. Far less conversions to do that way.

For me, if I were to do something along these lines, I would use the DKOK Grenadiers as my stormtroopers and the various commissars as the inquisitorial retinue.

We aren't telling him not to use the colors; just to avoid the Nazi symbology. It's a small, easy compromise to have the look you want that avoids unnecessary conflict with others. Whats wrong with that?

Well thanks for everyone's opinions on the matter but to those of you worried about me using the Swastika or the SS runes haven't read the post fully I said I would have an arm band but there wouldn't be a swastika but the emblem of the Inquisition. As far as the SS themed stormtroopers go I was just gonna have the Oak themed colors or straight black uniforms with white belts and somethings that are based off the iconography.

I know about WWII and the SS I am not a beginner when it comes to this and know what I'd be getting into. I also don't care what GW says I mainly play in home games. In fact my group is coming up with our own campaign, I just like showing GW what I have and finding out what they think.

I didn't think this would attract this much controversy sure the Nazis were bad, but I figured most people had accepted that and started to move on acknowledging that they were bad and should never return but accepting that people would have a certain interest in them.

check the symbol on the arm band..
"swastika"?
i know that the finnish suncross is the same symbol only it is the other way, instead of being bent to the right the lines are bent to the left.

i think that when ever you pull it up (and especially when you mention the ss) people get really nervous or offended.

i posted a thread about making ig look like ss (without the obvious symbols) and all the responses i got was all "ooh my god, there's a nazist on our forums" it ain't that funny to get that type of response, and since someone answeared with the words " why diden't you just say that you wanted to make brittish soldiers in trenchcoats?", i got sort of pissed since that woulden't be a correct description of what i was trying to do.

i don't know who said it but it's true:
"History is written by the victorious"

(disclaimer)this is in no way supposed to be supporting what the nazis did.
after all it's just plastic figures!
//J

aunshova wrote:LOOK TURTLE PIE!

That looks good!!!!

JokerGod wrote:Also, a swastika is NOT a bad symbol, it is taken from a HOLY CHURCH, get over it.

It's been tainted, however. That's unfortunately how things work. In a way saying it's "Not a bad symbol" is as wrong as denying the events of WWII, at least in my mind. Hitler and his pals crapped all over a lot of symbols and names, although admittedly that was pretty minor compared to the more blatant atrocities.

Historical WWII gaming gets a pass. The 'why' of this is complicated, and I'm not quite sure myself. Is it because the games have an educational component (If so, then the WWII FPS that were big a few years back need to be discussed.) is it ebcause someone has to play the bad guy? I'm honestly not sure, but it doesn't bother me as much.

For this, I just don't see the point. WWII would have been ancient history by the time of the 41st millenium. Symbols may have been reclaimed, but it's equally likely they've been forgotten, too.

I'd say don't do it. If it bothers you enough to ask,t hat's probably a sign right there.

Basically people are cool if
#1 you only use uniforms, no icons
#2 you don't seem pro nazi.

then its fine unless your some crazy supper PC peon

(also the SS were not part of the wehrmacht and were not special forces only favoured ones )

my god I cant beleive this is still going. Even IF the OP was a pro nazi who cares? He would be a dick in my mind, but if he wants to be that way, go for it. Thats the beauty of living in a free country. Hell I dont even remember who the OP was lol just paint YOUR army the way YOU want to paint them. And dammit I want some turtle pie now...... CRAP!

Hi all.
I live in Colombia, a country that has a history of war, narcotrafic, drugs, violence and more nonsense like lots of other countries.
Recently I saw a Catachan IG army with a paint scheme related to the guerillas and guess what we, in the gaming club, said?
Cool!!
Its a plastic miniature game, not propaganda of some stupid political thing, god, even one of the objective markers had white bags (resembling a bag of drugs), it is fictional!!!
It didnt matter, even the store owners said it was cool!!
So, if you like that scheme of painting then do it, it doesnt matter what others say, its your army, you can do what you want with it!!
In the case that some of the players in your gaming club had some issues with your theme it's not your fault that he feels offended, it is a game!!! if he/she cant diferentiate it from the real life is he/she the one that really has problems.
Maybe im a little too fixated in this but its that I really think it's really dumb to feel ashamed of historical things, every person is different and everyone has the rights to do with his things what he/she wants.

And you won me, hehehe, I was going to do that same paint scheme but with daemon hunters instead of witch hunters, and obviously IG.
Now, sorry if I offended someone with my thoughts and what I just writed but a game is a game, thoughts are thoughts and people are people, each one different than the other, thats what make us unique, we have to corelate with each other and understand us all so this war and things like that doesnt happen again!!

Greetings!!!

I would only steer clear of using the iron cross, or other german army insignia, and avoid swastikas all together.

However the feel of army does sound great, and i think using what most of us asociate with facism to represent the rather facist imperium is a natural link. Good luck with it all


Though i am wondering how the hell you will get a rhino to end up looking like a Sd.Kfz. 251