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sebster wrote:

Grignard wrote:I don't know Sebster, it is the only thing the man said that ever came close to being personally offensive for me. The reason I don't let it bother me is that the statement really needs to be taken in context. I honestly believe that the man was probably trying to get across exactly what you are saying. Unfortunately, the immediate reaction I had was to feel objectified by it. I mean, "small town" is what was referred to, but we all know who he was talking about. To be even more brutally honest, I was miffed because I felt lumped in because of one opinion of mine with people whom I do not necessarily see eye to eye with.

I can’t remember the exact wording, when I’ve got some time I’ll hunt it down, but for now I’ll admit it was possible that he chose his words poorly and it did come out more offensive than intended.

But I do remember his actual comments being a lot less offensive than the way his comments appeared when reported by others.

So, I looked up the exact text here http://thepage.time.com/transcript-of-obamas-remarks-at-san-francisco-fundraiser-sunday/. This is the key paragraph but the whole thing is there;

"But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get people persuaded that we can make progress when there's not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

He's saying what I said earlier, some folk in these small towns are facing unemployment and dying towns, having no healthcare for their families, but they're voting to protect their hobby. And he says that that's the fault of politicians, because they've made promises to protect these families and towns and haven't done it.

And its worth noting he was only talking about the folk in that situation who are only voting on that issue. Not all gun owners.

But it wasn't portrayed that way in the liberal media. They had a far more exciting story to tell with 'Obama calls gun owners bitter'.

Because that isn'r actually what Obama said. He never said ALL small town people were etc etc.

He said some, having first listed why-- the fact that they have been failed by successive govts.


You know, like some black people drop out of school and join gangs.

listen to him

EDIT : Damn your nimble fingers Mr. Sebster !

ShumaGorath wrote:If all of a sudden the farming system we have fails your rifles not going to count for much when it comes to feeding your family.

You're out of your mind. If society breaks down (and it will if farming collapses) what the hell do you think people are going to use to get food? And I don't just mean going and hunting. You can't seriously think otherwise........

Mekniakal wrote:

Did you mine the materials to make your gun? Did you sweat over a forge making it? Did you make your own ammo?

Did you weave your clothing from materials that you harvested?

Did you build the car that took you to where you hunted? Did you dig for the gas?

Did you build the roads?

Did you build the house you come back to? Found the materials to make it? Did you make your heating system?

Is hunting the only way you get food? If you stopped hunting, would you starve to death?

If you answered yes to all these things, kudos to you! You're independent!

If not, you relied on society so you could hunt.

In most cases, hunting is a pastime. I hunt because I like to, and I can get nice meat. It has nothing to do with independence. People who think hunting in America makes them "independent" is fooling themselves for the most part.

Of course, you could go to Australia/Africa and go hunting with some random tribe.

Uhhhhhh yeah because before those things existed man just sort of crawled around hoping food fell into his mouth.

No I did not mine the metal for my guns. I am a machinist, not a miner....

They are something I am willing to pay for though. They offer a service and goods I wants, so I buys.... dang capitalism, did it again it did.

It’s the same thing with GW and our little plastic men.... try explaining why you just paied $50 for a plastic toy tank to some factory workers.... i have, its not as easy as you would think.

Envy89 wrote:dang capitalism

I've found over the years that it is always poor and dull people that dislike capitalism. If they had the ability/willpower to get off the couch and do something for themselves they wouldn't be so jealous. But then you have the people like Westenfaux that just enjoy being bitter and envious of those that have tried and have accomplished more.

ChaosDave wrote:Actually if you really want to get technical, the Majority of people didn't vote for either candidate at all by about 2/3rds. But then this is about as relevant as your comment about the "majority of voters voting for Obama" bit. Oh and on a side note, in 2004 Bush did receive the majority of the Popular vote.

Nice tapdancing there. You know what I meant. Bush lost the popular vote in 2000. If it hadn't been for the electoral college, he wouldn't have been there to get re-elected in 2004. Having said that, the electoral college IS our system and the rules we play by.

But b*tching about the cost of Obama's inauguration and ignoring the reasons why it's much, much larger is just the worst kind of partisan sniping. Did anyone on the right side of the aisle stop to think about all the money that the visitors to D.C. spent at hotels, restaurants, businesses, etc.?

The Obama comment was made specifically about Pennsylvanians.

So if you're not a Pennsylvanian, you can stop acting personally offended by his comment.

gorgon wrote:The Obama comment was made specifically about Pennsylvanians.

So if you're not a Pennsylvanian, you can stop acting personally offended by his comment.

Africa is a great place. It is full of lazy black people.


Sweet now I figured out how to get away with that, since none of you can be offended by it.

Envy89 wrote:ok, obama can say that small town people are bitter white folks who cling to religion and guns. and its no big deal.

He never said white folks. Have a bit of an ethnocentric hearing problem? Or did you just like to interject that to try and ferment some racial hostility?

Envy89 wrote:now then.... what do you think would have happend is McCain said people in urban areas are ignorant black folk who drop out of school and join gangs.

well??? do you think the media would have just passed it up. or whould they are pounded him into the ground for it.

remember Dan Quayle and the word potato....

Do you think that Obama didn't have this reported or that it didn't hurt his campaign? It came up on the news and people talked about it for some time. In fact, it is still being held against him. Like here.

by us yes. but in the medai it blew over qui... its CHANGE you can belive in, YES WE CAN.

er ahem. ok so he dient say white people in this little tid bit.

so should i rant about harlem for a bit then say that i never said anything about race in said rant?

Envy89 wrote:by us yes. but in the medai it blew over qui... its CHANGE you can belive in, YES WE CAN.

No, you just felt that happened because you are an ideologue with a bad case of confirmation bias. You can only see what you want, or in this case I 'd be willing to say what you are told.

Envy89 wrote:er ahem. ok so he dient say white people in this little tid bit.

so should i rant about harlem for a bit then say that i never said anything about race in said rant?

This would only sound like a reasonable argument to someone who doesn't know what a reasonable argument is. The neighborhood of Harlem and the state of Pennsylvania aren't exactly equitable. He also wasn't just talking about Pennsylvania but a general concern. Even if he was, there are enough non-whites in Pennsylvania for him to not be hating on whitey alone.

PanamaG wrote:

Envy89 wrote:dang capitalism

I've found over the years that it is always poor and dull people that dislike capitalism. If they had the ability/willpower to get off the couch and do something for themselves they wouldn't be so jealous. But then you have the people like Westenfaux that just enjoy being bitter and envious of those that have tried and have accomplished more.

PanamaG wrote:

gorgon wrote:The Obama comment was made specifically about Pennsylvanians.

So if you're not a Pennsylvanian, you can stop acting personally offended by his comment.

Africa is a great place. It is full of lazy black people.


Sweet now I figured out how to get away with that, since none of you can be offended by it.

Moderation mode on:

Ok for the good of the nation of Dakka shutting this thread down. The thread is in flaming/trolling territory. Until we might again this thread is slain by the power of Dakka!