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man chrysaor everything you say almost always contradicts me but usually your the one right but tyranids hive minds get to pick what genetic material they harvest to put in their tyranids

lolzman wrote:man chrysaor everything you say almost always contradicts me but usually your the one right but tyranids hive minds get to pick what genetic material they harvest to put in their tyranids

i think its more along the lines of they consume all genetic material, and then choose what pieces to use... if they only picked and harvested the genetic material they wanted, then whole planets wouldn't be consumed for biomass and assimilation into the hive mind.... at least thats my take on it

Orkeosaurus wrote:
The warp is the anathema to the C'Tan, and the warp is where the Hive Mind lives.

I have not read much of the newer fluff - is this stated somewhere or are you speculating?
The Imperium believed the connection between the Hive Mind and the synapse critters is a psychic warp based connection - but does anyone have any reason to believe the hive mind exists in the warp?

Also it is nice to see a few people realize the Necrons and the C'tan are the real threat. Everything else is just extra kills.

As for thew guy (or girl you never know on the web) who said the 'crons wouldn't be able to beat the Orks - sure they could, they don't need planets to be able to sustain live for them to keep going. Wipe out a planets capability for life, spores can't grow, no more Orks.

KMKhaine wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:
The warp is the anathema to the C'Tan, and the warp is where the Hive Mind lives.

I have not read much of the newer fluff - is this stated somewhere or are you speculating?

It's mentioned somewhere, I'm pretty sure.

I remember it as being "anathema" distinctly despite that being a word I don't really use.

The Imperium believed the connection between the Hive Mind and the synapse critters is a psychic warp based connection - but does anyone have any reason to believe the hive mind exists in the warp?

Yep; the Hive Mind blocks out all attempts at astropathic communication, called The Shadow in the Warp.

But just because the Hive Mind uses the Warp to communicate - that does not necessarily make the Hive Mind in the warp is what I was saying...

I've only ever heard of the Hive Mind being a warp entity, and I don't think the C'Tan use the warp regardless.

There's really no reason to think the Hive Mind is the Outsider.

I always liked to think the Hive Mind actually is a large living creature that just happens to be psychically powerful enough to guide or control his (her / its) minions.

I'm not the one who thought it is the Outsider BTW

the hive mind is really Gork and Mork... and yes, they are really angry with their green minions

Hive Mind will most likely end up being Mal'al and the Old Ones had nothing to do with the upbringing of the Humans. They only influenced the Eldar and Orks. 2 Main Races in the Galaxy. Not a vast majority.

Dreadwinter wrote:Hive Mind will most likely end up being Mal'al and the Old Ones had nothing to do with the upbringing of the Humans. They only influenced the Eldar and Orks. 2 Main Races in the Galaxy. Not a vast majority.

ya right what ever not true but to the second part yes probaly very true

lolzman wrote:

Dreadwinter wrote:Hive Mind will most likely end up being Mal'al and the Old Ones had nothing to do with the upbringing of the Humans. They only influenced the Eldar and Orks. 2 Main Races in the Galaxy. Not a vast majority.

ya right what ever not true but to the second part yes probaly very true

Sorry friend, but the idea that a C'tan is in charge of the Nids is just bad.

Not gonna happen. Deal with it and read up on the 5th Chaos God.

Dreadwinter wrote:

lolzman wrote:

Dreadwinter wrote:Hive Mind will most likely end up being Mal'al and the Old Ones had nothing to do with the upbringing of the Humans. They only influenced the Eldar and Orks. 2 Main Races in the Galaxy. Not a vast majority.

ya right what ever not true but to the second part yes probaly very true

Sorry friend, but the idea that a C'tan is in charge of the Nids is just bad.

Not gonna happen. Deal with it and read up on the 5th Chaos God.

i knowtheyre not but theyre not controlled by mal'al either

Dreadwinter wrote:Not gonna happen. Deal with it and read up on the 5th Chaos God.

The Fifth Chaos God?

You mean Geoff, God of Biscuits?

I'm missing something here...

orksies wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin the votes have decided

Imagine the final battle....

On the ancient steps of terra every race in the galaxy mass each one fights for their own cause some noble some evil.The inquisition stand ready in front of the golden throne together with the custodes they will guard the throne room outside on the steps of the palace every space marine chapter stand united biggering aside waiting to prove there worth and at the gates millions of guardsmen lay ready millions of men from millions of worlds under the guidence of the witchunters and yt in front of them lay the hidden gangs and thugs of the hive worlds the many gangs band together to save their planet and secure their profit.

On a high cliff the eldar look down at the ruined city they prepare themselves for war thoussands of craftworlds sent forth there armies for the final battle and yet it seems they are outnumberd vastly.

The orks trod sloly through the city streets releshing the war they have brought under the banner of the biggest warboss known to the ork kind they march onto the palace.

Dark eldar wait in ambush waiting for the many armies to falter and then strike like a scorpion taking slaves amass and destroying the hated kin for good.

The tyranids outnumber all in there hive ships they wait but when they come they shall destroy all.

The necrons wait miles below the city in its very core there heartless bodies ready to ravage the worlds of man

And finaly chaos in all its unholy glory prepares to land on the soil of terra with an army big enough to strike fear into horus himself they assault.

ahhhh see thats wat happens but who wins???
I say imperium there devotion and grim dertemination will help them win

The main point against Necrons wining is that of the 3 known C´Tan, one is k.o. someplace in Mars, the second only cares about feeding and only one is making an effort to create some kind of plan to slave the universe and close the warp. Put all C´Tan in the same place and they might decide to settle old disputes about who tried to eat who eons ago.

M.

Tyranids.

Although this is a stretch. Realistically, there isn't enough fluff to safely justify that they could destroy the Necron and C'tan. If you read my little article here you'll see how logically reduced it to this option...

Nobody seems to have done a definitive listing post. This list is written using fairly standard easy to find fluff. This list isn't in any exact order that they would die or anything like that. Also this ignores strategy, and works purely on numbers and general behaviors of the race. For example, although humanity is the only power to be able to destroy a planet, this statement is debatable enough on it's own. Now let's imagine every craftworld and every ork warband joined together. I'm sure both of those groups wouldn't have trouble figuring out how to destroy a planet. I could continue to list examples, but there's no point, because each one of them has a rebuttal, and each one rebuttal has a rebuttal, etc. So here we go.

Squats - Already dead. Killed by orks, survivors were re-integrated with the rest of humanity.

Other Small Races - Kroot, etc... Who cares, they're dead. Whatever.

Tau - Will die. Their empire is a galactic spark in the pan. Note that many speculate that Tau are the newest race created by the C'tan, which could give them huge potential, but we can only speculate.

Eldar + Dark Eldar - Will die. Their role in the galaxy is coming to an end. Eldar already admits defeat, and even if Dark Eldar were to survive a gigantic war (their city is hard to find, apparently) There isn't any significant number of them to allow them to come out "on top".

Humanity - Dead. I don't care. Dead. If only orks were unite, Humanity would be screwed, let alone every other known race uniting. Humanity is the current ruler of the galaxy, so they would be the first to receive the hard side of revenge. The Imperium is the largest empire in the galaxy, however, Humanity isn't the most numerous race, which is a title held by...

Orks - So here the real debating starts. Orks could easily take on the aforementioned races, even all at the same time, if orks were to unite. Fluff has supported this for the 10+ years I've been playing this game. This is also where people get confused. Yes while, it's true that orks seriously pwn n00bz, one must take in the context of fluff supporting this. Often is says things such as they can take on the "known universe", or it'll say that they can take on the galaxy, in it's current state. Or even worse, it'll be a quote from a human, who is a character in the game. It's important to note that none of these statements include dormant necron, c'tan, or tyranids who are yet to arrive. So sure, the orks could easily wipe out all the tyranids in the galaxy, but that doesn't mean they'll be able to do it in another ten thousand years when the next batch of fleets arrive. Also I think it's important to note that if tyranids and necron/c'tan weren't in the picture, that although orks would be able to control the galaxy, both eldar and humanity residing in the eye of terror would survive. Because Orks reflect in the warp, it would remain strong enough to keep the eye afloat, and you cannot take the entire eye of terror using physical force. The orks would pretty much just let it sit there and not get too close. Where it would go from there is a different discussion, for a different thread...

This leaves us with a bunch of Orks vs an unknown number of Necron vs an unknown number of Tyranids. I think it's safe to assume Orks would not survive.

Necrons + C'tan - Very anti-climactic, but we really don't know. There are an unknown number of dormant necon, and possibly dormant C'tan, VS an equally unknown number of Tyranids.

Tyranids Okay... They win... They would crush every aforementioned race, except for Necon, for reasons we don't have enough info for. However, there is one simple idea that needs to be explored. It is often hinted at that Tyranids have conquered whatever galaxy, or galaxies, they are coming from. So if Tyranids already have an entire galaxy or more than one galaxy under their control, and these galaxies are roughly the same size as the known galaxy, then that gives them a clear advantage, by sheer numbers. Think of it like this:

At least full galaxy worth of warriors vs a fraction, size unknown, of a galaxy's worth of warriors.

The first option would win. Fluff dictates that it's highly likely that Necron are only in the known galaxy, and there's no way they could be dormant on every planet, because too many planets are tainted by chaos, which even if that removes the smallest amount, 1%, of planets, we're looking at =>100% vs 99%. Again, tyranids win. Yes. I realize typing all of this out was silly, but I've been awake for nearly 36 hours.

Consider this theory:

With a galaxy divided by Necron and Tyranids, we remove the "united" concept from this. Also, if we take numbers out of the equation, and just assume both Necron and Tyranids have unlimited reserves, I could see Tyranids wining here as well. The Tyranids are an extension of one mind, or the "overmind" if you dig starcraft. The Necron however, are slaves to the C'tan. The C'tan are really smart and schemey, which means that it's likely that C'tan might not agree on things, and eventually start fighting each other. In this case, it would be more like Necron destroying Necron, but either way the Tyranids would be around to take any ground that is lost by either side.

Long post but an equally good point, Nids FTW.

(Although the Nids would have probably eaten up the unknown universe by then)

DaRealJDB wrote:Tyranids.

Although this is a stretch. Realistically, there isn't enough fluff to safely justify that they could destroy the Necron and C'tan. If you read my little article here you'll see how logically reduced it to this option...

Nobody seems to have done a definitive listing post. This list is written using fairly standard easy to find fluff. This list isn't in any exact order that they would die or anything like that. Also this ignores strategy, and works purely on numbers and general behaviors of the race. For example, although humanity is the only power to be able to destroy a planet, this statement is debatable enough on it's own. Now let's imagine every craftworld and every ork warband joined together. I'm sure both of those groups wouldn't have trouble figuring out how to destroy a planet. I could continue to list examples, but there's no point, because each one of them has a rebuttal, and each one rebuttal has a rebuttal, etc. So here we go.

Squats - Already dead. Killed by orks, survivors were re-integrated with the rest of humanity.

Other Small Races - Kroot, etc... Who cares, they're dead. Whatever.

Tau - Will die. Their empire is a galactic spark in the pan. Note that many speculate that Tau are the newest race created by the C'tan, which could give them huge potential, but we can only speculate.

Eldar + Dark Eldar - Will die. Their role in the galaxy is coming to an end. Eldar already admits defeat, and even if Dark Eldar were to survive a gigantic war (their city is hard to find, apparently) There isn't any significant number of them to allow them to come out "on top".

Humanity - Dead. I don't care. Dead. If only orks were unite, Humanity would be screwed, let alone every other known race uniting. Humanity is the current ruler of the galaxy, so they would be the first to receive the hard side of revenge. The Imperium is the largest empire in the galaxy, however, Humanity isn't the most numerous race, which is a title held by...

Orks - So here the real debating starts. Orks could easily take on the aforementioned races, even all at the same time, if orks were to unite. Fluff has supported this for the 10+ years I've been playing this game. This is also where people get confused. Yes while, it's true that orks seriously pwn n00bz, one must take in the context of fluff supporting this. Often is says things such as they can take on the "known universe", or it'll say that they can take on the galaxy, in it's current state. Or even worse, it'll be a quote from a human, who is a character in the game. It's important to note that none of these statements include dormant necron, c'tan, or tyranids who are yet to arrive. So sure, the orks could easily wipe out all the tyranids in the galaxy, but that doesn't mean they'll be able to do it in another ten thousand years when the next batch of fleets arrive. Also I think it's important to note that if tyranids and necron/c'tan weren't in the picture, that although orks would be able to control the galaxy, both eldar and humanity residing in the eye of terror would survive. Because Orks reflect in the warp, it would remain strong enough to keep the eye afloat, and you cannot take the entire eye of terror using physical force. The orks would pretty much just let it sit there and not get too close. Where it would go from there is a different discussion, for a different thread...

This leaves us with a bunch of Orks vs an unknown number of Necron vs an unknown number of Tyranids. I think it's safe to assume Orks would not survive.

Necrons + C'tan - Very anti-climactic, but we really don't know. There are an unknown number of dormant necon, and possibly dormant C'tan, VS an equally unknown number of Tyranids.

Tyranids Okay... They win... They would crush every aforementioned race, except for Necon, for reasons we don't have enough info for. However, there is one simple idea that needs to be explored. It is often hinted at that Tyranids have conquered whatever galaxy, or galaxies, they are coming from. So if Tyranids already have an entire galaxy or more than one galaxy under their control, and these galaxies are roughly the same size as the known galaxy, then that gives them a clear advantage, by sheer numbers. Think of it like this:

At least full galaxy worth of warriors vs a fraction, size unknown, of a galaxy's worth of warriors.

The first option would win. Fluff dictates that it's highly likely that Necron are only in the known galaxy, and there's no way they could be dormant on every planet, because too many planets are tainted by chaos, which even if that removes the smallest amount, 1%, of planets, we're looking at =>100% vs 99%. Again, tyranids win. Yes. I realize typing all of this out was silly, but I've been awake for nearly 36 hours.

Consider this theory:

With a galaxy divided by Necron and Tyranids, we remove the "united" concept from this. Also, if we take numbers out of the equation, and just assume both Necron and Tyranids have unlimited reserves, I could see Tyranids wining here as well. The Tyranids are an extension of one mind, or the "overmind" if you dig starcraft. The Necron however, are slaves to the C'tan. The C'tan are really smart and schemey, which means that it's likely that C'tan might not agree on things, and eventually start fighting each other. In this case, it would be more like Necron destroying Necron, but either way the Tyranids would be around to take any ground that is lost by either side.

QFT

I'd have to say Tyranids or Necrons would take the fight, and I'd lean towards Tyranids. A tiny portion (yes, look at the pretty pictures in the Codexes) of a Tyranid fleet carved great swaths of destruction through the Imperium. They destroyed countless worlds, chapters, fleets. I can't forsee anything standing up to Tyranids.