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had 2 black reach sets and decided i needed some ork dreads

those deff dread conversions looked awesome mate

those convertions are sweet, it is a genius way of making use of the spare marine parts. pity i can't really convert the orks into chaos marines.

I hate to say it, but these are the types of units many players enjoy seeing. The unit is very expensive and slow. They can be brutal against infantry in assault, but it's too easy to stay away from the and shoot them down. 10 Are scary in assault, 3-4 are not.

Also, if Abaddon isn't with them, a single Wraithlord/Dreadnought/Deff Dredd will really irritate you to no end.

good point, as i said earlier, heavy firepower would completly annihilate this unit

thanks



either that or im happy to throw a unit of gretchin at the termies to keep them out of my way for a turn or 2, after all, thats what use gretchin have.

i only deepstrike them in near a personal icon so they get straight into combat, and a couple of chainfists where needed can take out armour.

yea, thats what i use my scarab swarms for

i don't really mind if it's kill point.

those deff dreads early do look sweet i might try sumthing like it using a space dreg

u should do tom.

i think i also like the classic design, but a variety of dreds will also do the trick

i concur.

you obviously haven't played against chaos daemons much. Bloodcrushers and even bloodletters could eat that list for breakfast, even without the charge. however my necron army would be left quivering in fear. my point being if you field a unit like that people will mass fire and reduce their numbers greatly, a few large blast templates and your squad is no more. other than that it could be very devastating for the opponent.

REAPER666 wrote:i use them as a powerful counter unit that deepstrikes near a personal icon so they can get into battle without worry of scattering. plus they can get almost straight into close range combat.

How I would beat your unit really depends on how the scenario is playing out. You can't assault on the turn you deep strike. Presuming that the scenario you're describing happens, here's my counter - if you were using land raiders or marching up the field I'd do something very different.

I have Ghazghkull Thraka and 10 Nobs in a Battlewagon in pretty much every game, so here's what you get:

1. Ghazghkull and the nobs deploy out of the battlewagon (after it closes any gap between you and it); Ghazghkull deploys 2" away.
1. Large Blast Strength 7 AP3 centered on your unit, and I hope it doesn't scatter.
2. Small blast Kannon (STR4 AP5) centered on your unit, and I hope that doesn't scatter either.
3. Ghazghkull declares a Waaugh! Ghazghkull now has a 2+ invulnerable save, my entire army gets a 6" fleet movement, and my entire army is fearless.
4. Depending on what is around this unit of yours, my Nobs will either shoot into it (with 2x skorcha templates + rokkits and random weapons), or they will shoot/fleet towards a nearby unit.
5. Ghazghkull will charge your remaining Chaos Terminators solo.
6. Your terminators will attack Ghazghkull, who will laugh off your attacks with his 2+ invulnerable save, 4 wounds, and immunity to instant death. In return, he's going to kill 1-7 of them.
7. His nobs are going to assault something next to the termies, or if they've deepstruck (as you described) behind my lines then they're going to spread out / hang out by them.
---------------
On your turn....

1. Your termies will attack Ghazghkull (presuming that they didn't fail leadership and try running), and he will shrug off their feeble attacks with his 2+ invulnerable save again.
2. Ghazghkull will kill another 1-5 terminators.
--------------------
On my next turn:

1. Ghazzy's nobs will position themselves to assault into the existing combat. When they assault, the only terminator models that will be able to choose which unit to attack will be the ones in base contact with both units. I will very carefully make sure to minimize this.
2. Your remaining (if any) terminators will attack Ghazghkull, who now has a 2+ armor save. You'll have one, two maximum terminators capable of attacking the nobs. You might kill 1-2.
3. Ghazghkull kills 1-5 Terminators, my Nobs (who typically have 3 power klaws) chime in with another 12 powerklaw attacks, and the rest of my nobs do their best to contribute (3 big choppas, painboy, and 3 regular boys with modifications)

Your unit will all be dead. If I rolled poorly and you rolled well, I can anticipate losing Ghazghkull + 1-2 nobs, or about 300 points max (Ghazghkull being 225 of those points).

If you take terminators in landraiders, my trukks (I play mobile orks) come equipped with boarding ramps. My trukks / battlewagons are going to park next to your land raiders and either a Nob, Warboss, or Ghazghkull is going to run down the boarding ramp and take their close combat attacks against your land raiders without having to actually disembark. Your next turn, you're going to have to shoot my trukks out from under me to be able to assault the guys inside...and with 4-7 powerklaw attacks that are strength 9 or 10 depending on who is swinging....the landraiders tend to go down.

I play Tau too, and I'd simply mass fire on them. With my stereotypical 1850 list...

If this unit isn't fearless, I'm going to pin them:

My firewarrior squads come with 2x marker drones each. They're ALL going to fire into your termies and stack up the markerlights. You can anticipate having a good 4-8 markerlights on you between my firewarrior squad drone attachments and sniper teams.

After the fire warriors have at you (and they'd probably kill at least one or two with that many STR5 AP5 shots) my Snipers are going to start in on you. 3 sniper teams, each with a spotter (+1 Markerlight) and 3 shots that are STR6 AP3 pinning. Somewhere in there, I'd give you a leadership test minus however many markerlights I've stacked on you. (Leadership minus 7-9 probably). I typically take 2 teams of crisis suits, and they've got a plasma apiece, and either missiles, fusion, or flamer...

You can expect to get rapid fired on with plasma with both teams for 12 STR6 AP2 shots, and a variety of STR8 AP1 shots mixed in with flamers and missiles (STR7 AP4).

I usually have 2 teams of broadsides (of 2 suits each - 3 if I can squeeze it). Your deepstruck termies are going to get some twin-linked loving from STR10 AP1 firepower.
------------------------------
Alternatively, if you roll them up the field in land raiders, you're going to pick up at least 4 twin-linked STR10 AP1 shots from my Broadsides, and my crisis teams are going to be trying to maneuver in to get a melta shot in at your landraider. After your termies get dumped out, then you can expect to see the above take place.

I guess if you want to go with a few points, broodlord with initiative, tendrils and strength + 11 stealers with acid maw and scything talons and strength.

Broodlord kills 3-4 after saves, stealers 44 attacks, about 40 hit. 7 rending, another 5 rending on rerolls with 20 straight wounds, dont roll any ones now. Average 3-4 1's so thats about 7 dead so far. The rendings kill another 8, hmm you ran out of termies.

out of 44 your not going to hit with 40 surely.
He would get inv svs?

feeder tendrils from the broodlord pass on to the stealers, 1/3 of 44 is ~15, reroll those 15 and you miss a grand total of ... 5.

The rendings, there were 12 of them and 2/3 get through (8) as inv is only 5 or 6's.

Last week Typhus (yeah That unkillabe SOB) with 6 terminators w/MoN deepstriked in a space behind my 4 squads +1 command squad of guard. he rapid fired what he had and killed a few guards. On my turn I layed 8 flamer templates a ton of flashlights and a demolisher round from a Russ. Result : a lone terminator running for his life.
Don't do it . A unit like this will gain target priority status and die on the turn they appear unless they are heavilly supported.

ten chaos terminators
all champions
mark of khorne
all with twin lightning claws

No power fists. They can't harm Dreadnoughts.

You have to compare this unit to a unit with similar point costs.
I'd counter this unit with a Librarian fielding nullzone keeping him out of range for your Termies.
Then I would shoot them (rapid fire) and take them on with 10 Assault Termies.

ok im sorry. about my mis claculation

REAPER666 wrote:not 5 but
ten chaos terminators
all champions
mark of khorne
all with twin lightning claws

that's 60 ws 4, str 4 attacks that re-roll to wound and allow no armour saves when they charge.

That is a horrible unit.

For Abaddon + 10 Termie champs w/ 2 Chainfists and rest twin Claws + 2 Landraiders to carry them.

You're talking at least 1225 points for 11 bodies.

They're also only 1 wound each and no fodder.

Notice: 9 Obliterators only costs 675 points.


For 1230 points I could buy
- 3 Obliterators: Plasma Cannons S7 AP2 will wipe out your terminators near-instantly. Has Lascannons and Multi-meltas to blow up landraiders. Can move-and-shoot.
- 3 Obliterators: move-and-shoot death that can also deep strike behind you.
- 3 Obliterators: same.
- 5 Chaos Terminators: 1 Chainfist + 4 Combi-meltas.
- 5 Chaos Terminators: 1 Chainfist + 4 Combi-meltas.
- 5 Chaos Terminators: 1 Chainfist + 4 Combi-meltas.

It would utterly massacre your proposed units.

Any 1 of those Terminator squads or Obliterator squads stands a good chance of blowing up your expensive landraider. Now notice I bought 6 of them.

It'll probably go down something like, all 15 of my deep striking in termies die taking out 2x landraiders. 1-3 of your expensive dudes die in the fighting.

My 9x obliterators completely remove your 2 foot-slogging termie units off the board easily.

Your champions have just been tabled.

Possibly more effective

9x Obliterators and 7 Slaanesh Termies w/ 4 Combi-meltas + 1 Slaanesh Termie Champ w/ Chainfist.
7 More Slaanesh Termies w/ 4 more Combi-meltas + 1 Chainfister.

If they're Slaanesh, then even if you charge, the termies get all 14 power weapon attacks at I5 and kill half your champions. Chainfister champ will strike on the non-abaddon side and he can squish 2-3 of your champions alone.

Abaddon is a monster and his squad will likely destroy their termies, but not before several of your champs are dead.

Then the 9 Obliterators easily finish off your Champs and kill Abaddon. They can start far in the backfield and walk backwards while firing half a dozen lascannon shots into Abaddon each turn if need be.

If he ever walks close, they can step towards them and fire 18 S7 AP2 twin-linked plasmagun shots into him.

Very one-sided battle.

Yeah - the unit isn't hard to kill for any army really. The benefit of the unit is that it IS a beast.

Your enemy would be unwise to ignore it. They *WILL* die. However, in exchange...you can pretty much guarantee that the rest of your army will go unscathed for most a turn.

Dashofpepper wrote:Yeah - the unit isn't hard to kill for any army really. The benefit of the unit is that it IS a beast.

Your enemy would be unwise to ignore it. They *WILL* die. However, in exchange...you can pretty much guarantee that the rest of your army will go unscathed for most a turn.

The difference between this and other super units is, his unit has very limited speed and no defensive power.

For same points of super orks you could get somethin like

2 Warbosses on Warbikes, each one gets 6 S10 attacks on the charge, so that's total 12 S10 attacks.
12 Nob bikers + 2 Painboys. 6 Power Klaws total = 24 more S9 attacks on the charge. 4 Big Choppas = 16 S7 attacks at I4 on the charge. Some extra attacks, and total 4 Rokkit Launchers = 4 24" S8 AP3 assault 1 shots before charging, + other regular shots.

T5 and 4+ Cover Save and 4+ Feel No Pain against shooting
vs.
T4 and 2+/5++ without cover or FNP. Against AP2 weaponry, you're basically T4 5+ save terminators die as fast as tactical marines.


If your opponent destroys your landraiders. You lose the game instantly.